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108
fairy godmilf


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: oakland, california

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:40 am    Post subject: the literature thread    Reply with quote

me n toups wrote:
me: sitting over here at my desk and reading LOLITA
have you ever read LOLITA?
it's a pretty good book
Andrew: I got about halfway through it
it was too dense for me to handle at the time
me: that's what she said!


I think Nabokov would be proud of such an exchange.

Let us talk about liteature, then! No, not fiction -- literature.

Sipping darjeeling tea UIH
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Felix
unofficial repository


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: vancouver

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:47 am        Reply with quote

i read lolita a couple months ago

was new to college and pretty out of touch with people as-was

thought i was losing my mind.

repeated this reading crime and punishment maybe a month later.

right now am reading catch-22.

i regret crime and punishment because i am not at all jackass enough to read long, boring, russian novels for fun. girlfriend's mother was a russian major, girlfriend wanted me to read anna karenina because obviously her childhood was robbed from her; i took one look at anna karenina, realized it was like seven hundred pages, and decided to read crime and punishment instead which i by no means enjoyed so i guess you lose a few and you lose a few.

mikhail lermontov's a hero of our time, however, is actually really good. and it's less than a couple hundred pages long. the anti-russian novel.

mostly anything tom robbins ever wrote i would recommend just on the grounds of his books being so much fun. vonnegut, also, is more often than not great, just don't ever read slapstick - it follows his usual sad-funny formula to a T except somehow the "sad" and "funny" are horrendously out of balance (might've been the point!) and it left me miserable afterwards. he usually makes me happy.

best robbins: fierce invalids home from hot climates, jitterbug perfume
best vonnegut: god bless you mr. rosewater, breakfast of champions

uhh i really like franny and zooey but i think most people do, donald barthelme's the dead father is quasi-PoMo (never had a chance to say that before) and definitely worth a read especially for the ic crowd i think, and nick hornby is good too.
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Isfet



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: A New York

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:47 am        Reply with quote

around here, this reading choice might not seem too daring, but i recently finished Murakami's After the Quake. i'm attempting to use it for a final paper in my post-colonial lit. grad course. making a japanese work fit into post-colonial lit. is going to take some fabulous bullshitting sprinkled with occasional knowledge.


anyway, it was the first thing i'd ever read by him and i'm pretty happy with it. all the stories are good, but some really know how to hit the right spot.
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108
fairy godmilf


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: oakland, california

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:02 am        Reply with quote

I thought After the Quake was pretty limp, actually. You should read Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World or just A Wild Sheep Chase.
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Isfet



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: A New York

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:17 am        Reply with quote

i read through half of The Wind-up Bird Chronicle before deciding there wasn't enough material for me to use there. i was enjoying it, though, so i'll get back to finishing it sometime after next week.

maybe After the Quake is limp in comparison to other Murakami; i wouldn't necessarily know. however, parts like the end of "landscape with flatiron" really struck me as particularly moving. i'll definitely check out your recommendations, though, as the idea that what i've just read is limp in comparison to something else is somewhat exciting.



getting back to actual post-colonial literature, anyone who hasn't read Midnight's Children should really do so. but it's not the kind of book you can skim through, so make sure you have time for it.
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negativedge
banned


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:21 am        Reply with quote

I really like those Russian dudes, but hell if most of their works aren't hard to get through (yes, I realize most of Nabokov's work was originally in English).
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Mr. Business



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Hiding

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:33 am        Reply with quote

I finished reading Musashi just as I was heading to summer school at the beginning of June. I never could get used to the way Yoshikawa would make these matter-of-fact statements that just simply were not so, or that would later on be reversed. I guess that he was stating the opinions and viewpoints of his characters as observations by the otherwise unassuming and omniscient narrator. So, what was Musashi's current opinion about his attitude towards Otsu would have been stated as some universal fact, until Yoshikawa would choose to overturn that fact later on with another equally tenuous one. It was jarring for me, since I tend to place far too much trust in the narrator.I also wonder at length what I might have missed out on by not reading it in the original Japanese. Probably a good bit.

My intention is to read Great Expectations over this winter break, but we'll see how that pans out. People who I have told of this intention have frequently reacted with either great amusement or simple bewilderment.

I don't think I have the big, metallic balls necessary to tackle fine Russian literature. However, I am somewhat tempted to read Lolita, since Kubrick's film rendition was quite a fine piece of work.
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oligophagy



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:36 am        Reply with quote

Regarding After the Quake, "Landscape with Flatiron" and "Honey Pie" make me resist calling the whole work limp, even if "All God's Children Can Dance" and "Super-Frog Saves Tokyo" kind of fall apart at the end. I recommend Blind Willow, Sleeping Woman, his most recent (English) short collection; it's a wide spread with some really good older work like A 'Poor Aunt' Story and Nausea 1979.

Also, read Sputnik Sweetheart soon but not Dance, Dance, Dance until (and unless) you really love him.
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sethsez



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:26 am        Reply with quote

Lolita's a masterpiece.

I'm greatly looking forward to starting Thomas Pynchon's new novel soon!
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Intentionally Wrong



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:06 am        Reply with quote

sethsez wrote:
Lolita's a masterpiece.

I'm greatly looking forward to starting Thomas Pynchon's new novel soon!


Yeah, I picked up Lolita because of something Tim wrote. And then I picked up Gravity's Rainbow because of something another guy wrote. As soon as I finish this, I'll be reading Gargantua and Pantagruel again.

Although the girlfriend seems keen on hearing more misremembered The Thousand and One Nights, so I might revisit that, instead.
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another coma
NeoGAF Reject


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: the wrong museum

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:08 am        Reply with quote

sethsez wrote:
Lolita's a masterpiece.

I'm greatly looking forward to starting Thomas Pynchon's new novel soon!


something wonderful I read about Lolita is that Nabokov wrote the entire novel on index cards while sitting in his parked car, not writing its scenes in any particular linear order.
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Lestrade
Mary McMoePanties


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:41 pm        Reply with quote

I am currently reading Only Revolutions by Mark Z. Danielewski, my favourite author. His previous book, House of Leaves, is probably my favourite book of all time.

I've never read a book before where I phone my friend and ask, how are you reading this? It's like a puzzle.
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robert



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:47 pm        Reply with quote

i really just couldn't get into house of leaves when i tried to read it, but now that i've got a lot of free time i might try it again. i certainly like the idea of the format, but i found the execution of it a little boring and long winded last time i tried to read it.
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:35 pm        Reply with quote

The new Pynchon is good. Fuck the reviewers that can't get into it.

OK, it probably isn't Gravity's Rainbow. Nothing ever can be. That book hit at such a perfect moment in history (1973) for its tone, style, paranoia, and just everything about it. Sadly, not enough people have read it. I think Kojima has been trying to make it into a game for awhile now (particularly MGS3).

Lolita is one of the funniest things I have ever read, though obviously there is a lot more there than that.

House of Leaves is good, but has some issues. The over-sexed nature of the main character gets a little annoying, and it takes a little too long to get going. Still has some good stuff going on in it.

Only Revolutions is interesting as well, but I'm still working on it. I don't quite now what to make of it, but it does have some fun stuff. The whole 180/360 words a page thing gets a little too gimmicky though. It is almost as if the style the words are printed on the page in is more important than the words themselves at times.

Edit:
Lestrade wrote:
Only Revolutions by Mark Z. Danielewski

So you are reading the guys side? The O's are yellow for the girl.
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Felix
unofficial repository


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: vancouver

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:47 pm        Reply with quote

i've actually had gravity's rainbow sitting in my drawer right now for a while.

by now, i've read just about everything else i bought in that one fantastical used book store trip at the beginning of the semester, but, for whatever reason, not gravity's rainbow.

i'll get to it.
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Lestrade
Mary McMoePanties


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:37 pm        Reply with quote

boojiboy7 wrote:

Lestrade wrote:
Only Revolutions by Mark Z. Danielewski

So you are reading the guys side? The O's are yellow for the girl.


According to the book's dust jacket, "the publisher" recommends that you read both stories alternately, eight pages at a time. So, you read Sam's story until page 8, and then you flip and read Hailey's story until page 8, etc. Neat things happen when you do this, I notice.

Right now I'm ignoring the column of dates and important events in world history, and the third (apparently) story that's written upside down, because fuck if I know what that's for at this point.

This book is a lot of work!
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:33 pm        Reply with quote

I'm reading The Golden Bough, what is a wonderfull way to remind me that books, once upon a time, actually contained information. Also, Les Miserables.
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:46 pm        Reply with quote

Lestrade wrote:
boojiboy7 wrote:

Lestrade wrote:
Only Revolutions by Mark Z. Danielewski

So you are reading the guys side? The O's are yellow for the girl.


According to the book's dust jacket, "the publisher" recommends that you read both stories alternately, eight pages at a time. So, you read Sam's story until page 8, and then you flip and read Hailey's story until page 8, etc. Neat things happen when you do this, I notice.

Right now I'm ignoring the column of dates and important events in world history, and the third (apparently) story that's written upside down, because fuck if I know what that's for at this point.

This book is a lot of work!


Yeah, i ignored the publisher's advice for it. The upside down part might either be the continuations of the story, or some kind of commentary on the story happening above it, as they usually line up in interesting ways.

Ethoscapade, read GR. Love GR. Write music for the songs. Sing them when you are drunk.
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haze
la belle poney sans merci


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:04 pm        Reply with quote

I read Paul Auster's New York Trilogy and enjoyed it a lot. It felt important in the end somehow, more than anything Murakami has written. I mean I enjoy Murakami, it's just he never reaches some kind of profound climax.
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winkerwatson
badmin


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:41 pm        Reply with quote

Read Lanark bitches
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!=



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: the planet of leather moomins

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:20 pm        Reply with quote

For the past six few of our months I have got Faulkner's The Sound and The Fury on my bookshelves dedicated to books-to-read-soon. I have read it in my native language earlier, after having read it name-dropped in one of Murakami's books*. I like to practice hyperlinking in the literature domain. (From books to books to music to movies)

The Sound and The Fury is a great if very confusing read, especially for someone like me who dabbled in stream-of-consciousness writing in the past. I then bought Absolom! Absolom! in American English, which I pondered a lot about. About whether one could translate this work to another form, visual or gaming related.

But The Sound and The Fury, original version, still sits on my shelves, confident of its quality.

* The Murakami book I believe was the followup to the Wild Sheep Chase, Danse Danse Danse! I love the genuine freshness of Wild sheep chase, the first Murakami novel I've read. After having been recommended Hard-Boiled Wonderland and The End Of The World. I kept thinking the old man in Wild Sheep Chase was supposed to be Yoshio Kodama. Murakami refuses to give proper names in his books, I like that. Is he trying to make us think of his characters as allegories?
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Adilegian
Rogue Scholar


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:14 pm        Reply with quote

Ethoscapade wrote:
i regret crime and punishment because i am not at all jackass enough to read long, boring, russian novels for fun. girlfriend's mother was a russian major, girlfriend wanted me to read anna karenina because obviously her childhood was robbed from her; i took one look at anna karenina, realized it was like seven hundred pages, and decided to read crime and punishment instead which i by no means enjoyed so i guess you lose a few and you lose a few.


I'm jackass enough!

I love Russian novels. I especially loved Doctor Zhivago. I like how broadly-paced they are and how their length allows for an immersion in the narration that almost breaks my heart when it ends. It establishes an intimacy with a dedicated reader that's similar to a personal intimacy: no one's making you stay in a close friendship, and you enjoy the experience more for your willing participation.

I've found that Russian novels are like that, too. Many shorter works almost feel as though they're afraid that they're wasting my time, so they attempt as much sparseness and speed as possible. I like to read authors who seem comfortable enough with the idea that their readers are present of their own volition and that their readers will stay as long as the novels keep being themselves.

The length isn't a justification in itself, though. I think that the length allows Russian novels to achieve what I've only seen within their pages: a comprehensive skyline of human society, from outcasts to aristocrats to spiritualists to men of the world. (In retrospect, I think this is what I liked most about Ayn Rand's works as Russian-American novels, even though I've found that her didacticism defeats much of the grandeur of a large scope of humanity.)

It's the kind of thing you see daily in the streets of Moscow and Saint Petersburg. Russia is gorgeous with life.

On other books: I loved Lolita, and I think it's one of the absolute best novels of the twentieth century. It panders to nothing but the belief that literary education makes a man more moral, and it even subverts that. It's really shameful that the novel's been associated as a positive support of the perversity. It really hurts the general perception of the novel to associate it with a brand of child pornography, when, in fact, it's a story of one man's failure to understand his need for love.

I'd recommend Thomas Hardy, if you like writing that takes the time to give texture to everything without turning every lettered page into a cheesegrater to run across your eyes (like Henry James does.)

On that note: I hate Henry James. I like long novels, but only if that length seems dedicated toward moving in a direction. James stagnates.

And I love Faulkner.
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lakhesis



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: The Diamond Age

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:18 pm        Reply with quote

I'm reading The Diamond Age as a breather between Only Revolutions and Ulysses. For the first time in a while, I've got more new books than the one I'm currently reading, and it's kind of nice. Sometime after Ulysses is Jonathan Safran Foer's newest, Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close.


Lestrade wrote:
HoL & Only Revolutions


I saw HoL at the bookstore about six months ago but I couldn't remember who/what/when/where I'd heard about it, so I bought it because it looked interesting. Took me two weeks to remember that I'd seen someone here recommend it. It seems like it might have been you!

Even if it wasn't, thanks! It was really good.
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sethsez



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:25 pm        Reply with quote

House of Leaves stuck me as a nifty trick, but nothing more. A literary "hey y'all, watch this" if you will. From what I've seen of Only Revolutions I get a similar feeling... a big literary lark.

MZD's got talent, no doubt, but I'm still waiting for him to take his style and apply it to something with a bit more substance. So far I just get a feeling he's trying to say "boy, this sure looks like something Jorge Luis Borges would write about, doesn't it?" and doesn't really have much of his own to add.
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Elder Toups



Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:00 pm        Reply with quote

I am motherfucking down with the following novels:

Solaris
Foucault's Pendulum
Ada, or Ardor
Rice
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ani



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:06 pm        Reply with quote

I read about half-way through House of Leaves, and that took me a few weeks of constantly reading it, and then life got too busy and I never finished it. From what I read, though, it was really great, and I'll probably return to it sometime in the next ten years.

I've read Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World, and actually I became aware of it because of tim's article way back. I liked it and might read some more Murakami novels in the near future.

Great Expectations is an excellent book.

I'm currently reading Lord of the Flies for English class, which I've loved so far.

I've recently read some books by Margaret Atwood (The Handmaid's Tale and The Blind Assassin), which were pretty good.

I want to read Lolita and probably will sometime soon.

Same goes for things written by Thomas Pynchon.

Oh, and I'm currently reading La Catrina for Spanish class. Which is a good book or something.


Last edited by ani on Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:06 pm        Reply with quote

Today I bought Goethe's Faust, the one where the German is on the left page and the English translation is on the right, and The Complete Short Stories of Ernest Hemingway (Finca Vigia Edition, whatever that means).

Part of my New Year's resolution will be to finish Henry Miller's The Rosy Crucifixion (all three books!), plus all the assorted Mark Twain (Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn) and Dostoevsky (Crime and Punishment, The Idiot) that I've got laying around and haven't dug into yet. Also read Moby Dick and Oliver Twist. Maybe finish up those Sherlock Holmes collections.
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lakhesis



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: The Diamond Age

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:17 pm        Reply with quote

I got the most out of HoL when I realized what MZD was doing and exactly how far he was going to go with it. It also creeped me the hell out, which was pleasant.

It does have a nifty trick at the center of it, but I thought it was particularly nifty.

OR is a different story (har). I understand what he was doing but it wasn't as compelling... and the "check this out" aspect was more baldface. It was a story wrapped around a trick instead of the other way around.


sethsez wrote:
MZD's got talent, no doubt, but I'm still waiting for him to take his style and apply it to something with a bit more substance.


I was standing in line at one of his book signings when I realized I wasn't very excited about his next book - and the above is why. I hope he does what you suggest, but he's at least as interested in the trick as the story, if the question/answer session was any indication.
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Adilegian
Rogue Scholar


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:30 pm        Reply with quote

There's a pretty good interview with Murakami in The Georgia Review's Fall 2005 issue. The title is "In Dreams Begins Responsibility," and it was conducted by Jonathan Ellis and Mitoko Hirabayashi.

Thought that might be a useful resource for anyone with access to the journal.
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Mr. Apol
king of zembla


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: a curiously familiar pit

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:49 pm        Reply with quote

i finished reading the death of ivan illyich recently, and it was very good. it totally didn't have to have the ending it did, but it was very, very welcome after all the shit that book puts you through.

reading it was basically like the three years of my childhood i spent terribly afraid that i was going to die. i couldn't go to sleep at night, and i wouldn't touch any sort of chemical bottle that stated it could cause death or blindness. i'm really glad i got over that.
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:45 pm        Reply with quote

Great Expectations can kiss my ass.

On the other hand, Solaris and Foucault's Pendulum are excellent.

Read Gravity's Rainbow! EVERYONE!
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Focus



Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:03 am        Reply with quote

EMERGENCY!!


I'm maybe slightly over a third done with Gravity's Rainbow. But, it has been a while since I've picked it up.

Should I continue from where I left off, or start over?




YOU CALL THE SHOTS!!
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:57 am        Reply with quote

Oh fuck, that is a tough debate. How much of it do you remember? Maybe go back to the beginning of the section you are in and go from there?

Man, now I want to hit GR up for some love, but I want to finish Against the Day first.
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Focus



Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:06 am        Reply with quote

I'm thinking I'm going to go clean slate here. It is probably for the better, anyways.
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internisus
shafer sephiroth


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:35 am        Reply with quote

Focus wrote:
EMERGENCY!!


I'm maybe slightly over a third done with Gravity's Rainbow. But, it has been a while since I've picked it up.

Should I continue from where I left off, or start over?




YOU CALL THE SHOTS!!



The reason why I never post in these lit threads is that, when I like something a whole lot, I can't get through it because I keep going back instead. This sometimes happens with music, too. I feel like I could have paid just a tiny bit more attention and loved it even more, so I'm going to start over and get it right this time!

Anyway, there's a lot that I want in this thread. A lot.

And there's a lot that I already wanted.
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:35 am        Reply with quote

Probably, but i didn't know how hesitant you were about it.
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oligophagy



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:49 am        Reply with quote

winkerwinker wrote:
Read Lanark bitches

okay! i just read the first six pages on amazon's look inside thing. once i finish this tea, i'm walking to library to continue.
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108
fairy godmilf


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: oakland, california

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:06 am        Reply with quote

everybody wrote:
House of Leaves


Yeah, see, I didn't really like this one so much. I remember a girl told me to read it, and loaned me her copy -- this was many years ago -- and I kind of felt sorry for her.

Much as I love messing around with people, I do prefer a book to be very straightforward, or else consist of precisely one marvelous, small, pretty knot.

That, and I do think that colored text (especially in the title) is kind of tacky.

My goal is to someday shock a small part of the world by writing a convoluted, fucked-up, weird story in a very plain, straightforward, nearly shimmering literary fashion.

It's pretty hard to sit and write like that for too long at a time.

Today, I am reading One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest! It is a mint-condition vintage volume, with a picture of Jack Nicholson on the cover! "Soon to be a major motion picture!" it says.

I find this book kind of trite; it has a good heart.

Next on the schedule is a re-reading of To Kill a Mockingbird, though this may change. At the moment, I find it exciting to think I'll be reading a series of books with breeds of birds in their titles. Might as well start with today.

Also, I've always preferred Jorge Luis Borges to Pynchon, though no one's actually ever asked me (or anyone I know) to take sides. I get a more condensed version of the same feeling I get from Pynchon's novels out of Borges' shortest short stories. It's rather hard to pinpoint.
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sethsez



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:10 am        Reply with quote

Borges feels like he had all sorts of great ideas for novels, but never really felt like sitting down and actually writing them, so he wrote short stories about them instead.
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108
fairy godmilf


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: oakland, california

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:12 am        Reply with quote

sethsez wrote:
Borges feels like he had all sorts of great ideas for novels, [and] never really felt like sitting down and actually writing them, so he wrote short stories about them instead.


Yeah. I can kind of relate to that.

Except, well. I was a kid and had nothing else to do, so I actually did write all those novels. And I feel terrible about it.

I really like the condensed feel of his short stories.

Marquez is pretty good, too! Though for something totally unrelated.
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sethsez



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:14 am        Reply with quote

I still have no idea how I feel about Ulysses.
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