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CubaLibre
the road lawyer


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:10 pm        Reply with quote

You're screwing yourself by leaving Rome out of it.
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:27 pm        Reply with quote

Felix wrote:
it's not.. too touristy? i feel like venice is already enough of a concession to out and out sightseeing.

(not the act thereof; the place itself)

Rome is gorgeous. I understand your desire to separate "tourism" from "appreciation" but if by "sightseeing" you just mean examining the most incredible artistic and architectural marvels in the world then I don't know what to tell you.

Sure the downtown area is touristy (around the Trevi Fountain which you should absolutely see), but go a few stops out on the metro and you're in authentic Italian territory. But if you go to Italy and don't see the Pantheon and the Vatican museums you're wasting your time imo.

If it's REAL ITALIAN LIFE you want to see, sans beautiful classical and Renaissance art, try Naples.
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:43 pm        Reply with quote

bias report: I lived for six weeks more or less on my own in Rome, so.

I lived like five blocks north of the Vatican and it was 100% eyetalian. Not a tourist in sight.

As a whole, I've never seen a city so beautiful. Period. Florence was nice but it was all Renaissance and nothing else. Rome is like the entire history of Western art unfolding before your eyes (except I suppose for ultramodern). Like, there's no marble on the Pantheon's exterior because it was literally stripped for concrete in medeival times. It's sort of a "shame" archaeologically speaking, but it's intensely beautiful to see a city in the process of reusing itself to express new artistic ideas. In some cases you can literally see the evolution (Coloseum cross-section for example). And on top of it, Rome is an actual city, analogous to New York here. It's not a frozen cultural artifact like so many other European and Italian cities. It's got a population of 3 million people who live and work there. Life doesn't stop and start for tourists. Most people don't speak English because they're not beholden to you to support their economy. It's lovely to subsume yourself in that rhythm.

Anyway, uh, there's no other city like it, not even other Italian cities, which are nice I guess. Venice is way more touristy than my opinion, and sort of a one-trick pony. Still worth visiting, though.

Also: try learning a little Italian! Some European countries frown on yanks trying to bumble their way through their language, but Italians (Romans at least) really appreciate it. You don't have to take classes or anything, just a pronunciation guide (it's easy) and a pocket dictionary will do well. I did everything I needed to do basically talking like a caveman (all nouns and adjectives, no grammar) but people still liked me.
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:34 pm        Reply with quote

woo hoo for rome salesmanship

If you don't drink wine you will dehydrate in Italy. Seriously unless you just always drink water (which is fine I guess, my girlfriend does it) you are missing out on 50% of Italian culture by not having a glass of the house red everywhere you eat. It's cheaper than any other beverage (have you ever been to Europe? I forget but if you haven't soda's expensive) and good lord is it delicious.

Beer is Germany's wine, I'd get used to that too if you're going.

Basically, the point is that drinking in those countries is social and it's integral to the food palette. (Well, in northern Europe it's half social and half binge, that's where we Americans get our binging tendencies from, but this reasoning still applies.) You're not going to appreciate the cuisine as much if you don't drink the same stuff every single other person drinks while eating the cuisine. They're interdependent.
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:04 am        Reply with quote

Also recommending Scotland over England.

Also, consider Wales. best castles
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:05 am        Reply with quote

For #10: Eastern Europe? Budapest, Prague? (Maybe that's "Central Europe" to be PC these days, I don't keep up on that.)
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:12 am        Reply with quote

hm.

From personal experience I can recommend Florence and Rotterdam.

Also like I said before, if you want nitty-gritty Italy you can try Naples.

Also, it's not a "city" per se but if you want relaxing, lush vistas you can try bumming around Tuscany/Umbria. Like Assisi or something. (Nice chapel there, St. Francis and all dontcha know.)
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