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The new Macbook Air looks sweet as hell.
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Kappuru
forum bishonen


Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:16 pm        Reply with quote

CubaLibre wrote:
108 wrote:
Quote:
still only a 1 button mouse.

People need to get over this! You don't actually need two buttons! All you have to do is leave one finger on the touchpad while you click, and it's a right click.

Tim that is retarded logic.


it's two fingers on the touchpad, but yeah, really, it's not something to cry about.
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:18 pm        Reply with quote

Well, like I said, I'm not a true tech-type; everything I know about Windows and PCs in general is stuff I've picked up to get games running.

That being said, Vista's been more stable for me than XP ever was, in terms of remaining up after an application crashes. Occasionally CoD4 will even crash my display driver, and Vista will restart it like a champ, oftentimes without even crashing the game itself.

But yeah, I don't look around on the internet collecting rumors, I only have my own anecdotal experience to go on, and it's worked well enough for me.

(Also, speaking of better menus etc., Office 2007 is awesome. Much bigger step up than the small Start menu improvements and whatnot.)
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108
fairy godmilf


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: oakland, california

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:00 am        Reply with quote

Kappuru wrote:
CubaLibre wrote:
108 wrote:
Quote:
still only a 1 button mouse.

People need to get over this! You don't actually need two buttons! All you have to do is leave one finger on the touchpad while you click, and it's a right click.

Tim that is retarded logic.


it's two fingers on the touchpad


well actually, i always use touchpad tap as left click, so i guess i meant one extra finger on the touchpad.

it works nice!
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evnvnv
hapax legomenon


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: the los angeles

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:29 am        Reply with quote

if anyone here is actually interested in buying one of these (which should imply you've got money to burn?) might i direct your attention to this fine accessory that is being made by some people who are very dear to me

i know its silly but selling them seems like a pretty good idea! apparently they're quite popular!
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Talbain



Joined: 14 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:00 am        Reply with quote

CubaLibre wrote:
It looks pretty, networking is easier, driver nonsense is easier, it isn't a substantial enough resource hog to slow performance (at least with 2GB RAM, par for the course on a midrange gaming PC these days).

Though more what I mean is that it isn't worse than XP in any way (and in a few ways it is a little better), and in a couple years it'll be the standard, so you may as well go ahead and use it.


1) Most any OS can be made to "look pretty."
2) Driver nonsense? For example? Just saying "it auto-installs drivers" is not much of an excuse; any Linux distro these days can now do this, and there are programs for Windows XP that can do it as well.
3) Actually, it is worse than XP, in many ways. In fact, in your own response you've named reasons as to why it's worse. It's a resource hog, first and foremost (up to a gig of RAM can be used for the OS at any time, and here's the kicker; it can also use up to 128 MB of graphics RAM if it's available, sapping not just your memory but your graphics capabilities as well)--it's hard to get access to the guts of the operating system because the operating system attempts to stop you from doing so. The operating system is embedded with DRM which means it can forcibly stop you from doing things it doesn't want you to do. I don't know about you, but I don't want a machine thinking for me. I'd rather not know and find out how to do it, than to simply have a machine tell me I can't do it.
4) The Vista upgrade, any of them, are EXTREMELY expensive. I could buy a computer for the price of some of the Vista options.

Yeah. I'm gonna say no thanks if all Vista can offer me is Office 2007 (which is likely different in no significant ways from 2003).
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:23 am        Reply with quote

The most amusing thing about Vista, is that the only thing that worked fine in XP, namely the ability that if you pressed Crtl+Alt+Del, you _would_ get the window with the task-manager / shut off buttons, even if the system was falling apart. Vista replaces that with a custom non-standard gui screen so heavy that crashes if a program is hoarding the processor, hence making it useless.

Also, Office 2007 is actually way different from Office 2003 in many ways. If anything, the closest thing to Office 2003 nowadays is erm, OpenOffice.

Thing is, my experience with the latter OSX aren't really any better than Vista.
I'll buy a Air when Steve decides to swap OSX for BeOS.

EDIT: On a side-note, most of the "resource hogging" of vista is part of a caching strategy. It's actually good, since it spares disc usage (and allows for readyboost technology, etc). The problem is that Vista doesn't let us control it in any significant way, so we just have to look at the memory go to whatever _it_ thinks is important.
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XORDYH



Joined: 01 Jun 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:28 pm        Reply with quote

The problem with Vista (or any OS) as an OS for gaming is that it _is_ an OS. What we really need is just a thin kernel that provides a standard API to the hardware, so that games don't have to compete with anything for system resources. I would rather boot into that for my games, and have a separate, full-featured OS for everything else, rather than try to balance tuning a general OS for both gaming and non-gaming tasks.
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!=



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: the planet of leather moomins

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:39 pm        Reply with quote

ssj-xordyh wrote:
The problem with Vista (or any OS) as an OS for gaming is that it _is_ an OS. What we really need is just a thin kernel that provides a standard API to the hardware, so that games don't have to compete with anything for system resources. I would rather boot into that for my games, and have a separate, full-featured OS for everything else, rather than try to balance tuning a general OS for both gaming and non-gaming tasks.


An advantage of such an OS is that it would not have a working browser, hence we would be gaming instead of posting on internet forums.

Just sayin' as someone who neither have a will, a 360 or a ps3 yet.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:26 pm        Reply with quote

!= wrote:
ssj-xordyh wrote:
The problem with Vista (or any OS) as an OS for gaming is that it _is_ an OS. What we really need is just a thin kernel that provides a standard API to the hardware, so that games don't have to compete with anything for system resources. I would rather boot into that for my games, and have a separate, full-featured OS for everything else, rather than try to balance tuning a general OS for both gaming and non-gaming tasks.


An advantage of such an OS is that it would not have a working browser, hence we would be gaming instead of posting on internet forums.

Just sayin' as someone who neither have a will, a 360 or a ps3 yet.
Not really. Again, BeOS - a single-user built, multitasking OS with a microkernel using fully dinamically loaded drivers, and designed around media creation, instead of a bloated BSD distro like OSX.
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XORDYH



Joined: 01 Jun 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:03 pm        Reply with quote

Mac OS X, while not a true microkernel architecture, is quite close.
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:58 pm        Reply with quote

Talbain wrote:
CubaLibre wrote:
It looks pretty, networking is easier, driver nonsense is easier, it isn't a substantial enough resource hog to slow performance (at least with 2GB RAM, par for the course on a midrange gaming PC these days).

Though more what I mean is that it isn't worse than XP in any way (and in a few ways it is a little better), and in a couple years it'll be the standard, so you may as well go ahead and use it.


1) Most any OS can be made to "look pretty."
2) Driver nonsense? For example? Just saying "it auto-installs drivers" is not much of an excuse; any Linux distro these days can now do this, and there are programs for Windows XP that can do it as well.
3) Actually, it is worse than XP, in many ways. In fact, in your own response you've named reasons as to why it's worse. It's a resource hog, first and foremost (up to a gig of RAM can be used for the OS at any time, and here's the kicker; it can also use up to 128 MB of graphics RAM if it's available, sapping not just your memory but your graphics capabilities as well)--it's hard to get access to the guts of the operating system because the operating system attempts to stop you from doing so. The operating system is embedded with DRM which means it can forcibly stop you from doing things it doesn't want you to do. I don't know about you, but I don't want a machine thinking for me. I'd rather not know and find out how to do it, than to simply have a machine tell me I can't do it.
4) The Vista upgrade, any of them, are EXTREMELY expensive. I could buy a computer for the price of some of the Vista options.

Yeah. I'm gonna say no thanks if all Vista can offer me is Office 2007 (which is likely different in no significant ways from 2003).

Okay!

All I'm saying is, it came loaded on this here laptop and I runs HL2 and CoD4 with no problems at all, and all the USB devices I've plugged into it have been no-hassle.

This is in contrast to my 5 year old desktop running XP SP2!
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!=



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: the planet of leather moomins

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:19 pm        Reply with quote

Takashi wrote:
!= wrote:
ssj-xordyh wrote:
The problem with Vista (or any OS) as an OS for gaming is that it _is_ an OS. What we really need is just a thin kernel that provides a standard API to the hardware, so that games don't have to compete with anything for system resources. I would rather boot into that for my games, and have a separate, full-featured OS for everything else, rather than try to balance tuning a general OS for both gaming and non-gaming tasks.


An advantage of such an OS is that it would not have a working browser, hence we would be gaming instead of posting on internet forums.

Just sayin' as someone who neither have a will, a 360 or a ps3 yet.
Not really. Again, BeOS - a single-user built, multitasking OS with a microkernel using fully dinamically loaded drivers, and designed around media creation, instead of a bloated BSD distro like OSX.


BeOS did not really have a working web browser!
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Toptube
Anti-cabbage Party Candidate


Joined: 23 Apr 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:32 pm        Reply with quote

Vista is only 10 days shy of being out for 1 year. for that short amount of time, I think its doing pretty fine. with Vista in its current (initial) form, there are more degrees of seperation between it and XP then there was XP and 2000. especially if you install a 64 bit Vista, which any full owners of home premium or up also have a license for.

when XP first came out, people were wondering why they needed it instead of windows 2000. you could actually use many windows 2000 drivers for XP because they were so similar. and then SP1 hit, and we started to see some degrees of separation, started to "get" XP. and when SP2 finally hit, it was like you just installed a whole new OS.

Vista already is a whole new OS. sure, its got some little negative quirks, wierd performance things like copying large amounts of files, the volume controls taking forever to access sometimes, etc. EVERYTHING has its own icon. but many small things about it make it quite different from XP, and for the better. every new OS uses more ram, more resources. but Vista does a pretty nice job of only doing that when you are using Vista, and not other programs. for all of the extra ram that it uses, its application and game performance is right with XP. sometimes a lot better. and yes, sometimes a little bit worse, but not much worse. not something you'd notice without a benchmark. and this time, most of those extra resources go into making your computer experience snappier and more transparent. and it works. it made my single core Athlon 64 feel 500mhz faster. and now that I have a dual core, i'm pretty much wating for nothing. even on intial boot. once I login, i'm using Vista. not wating for it to load for another 30 seconds to a minute. actually, I do have to wait about 10 seconds, but that's because Avast starts up and does its intial scan and grabbing control of things.

and regarding the UAC or whatever that prompts you for admin actions and whatnot. its not really annoying to me, and I've had way less problems with it than people scream about on the internet. the only real problem I've had with it is Bitcomet won't save any configuration settings unless I "run as admin"
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:15 pm        Reply with quote

!= wrote:
Takashi wrote:
!= wrote:
ssj-xordyh wrote:
The problem with Vista (or any OS) as an OS for gaming is that it _is_ an OS. What we really need is just a thin kernel that provides a standard API to the hardware, so that games don't have to compete with anything for system resources. I would rather boot into that for my games, and have a separate, full-featured OS for everything else, rather than try to balance tuning a general OS for both gaming and non-gaming tasks.


An advantage of such an OS is that it would not have a working browser, hence we would be gaming instead of posting on internet forums.

Just sayin' as someone who neither have a will, a 360 or a ps3 yet.
Not really. Again, BeOS - a single-user built, multitasking OS with a microkernel using fully dinamically loaded drivers, and designed around media creation, instead of a bloated BSD distro like OSX.


BeOS did not really have a working web browser!
NetPositive was a pretty good browser, if we lived in 1995. There was a Opera build for BeOS, however.

As for OSX/Darwin XNU kernel, It's too frankenstein-ish for me. ALbeit I'm pretty sure my bad Tiger experience had nothing to do with it.
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XORDYH



Joined: 01 Jun 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:29 pm        Reply with quote

Toptube wrote:
...every new OS uses more ram, more resources...


Mac OS X 10.4 used demonstratively less resources than 10.3 when it shipped, due to some re-architecting of the core system. I'm sure this isn't the only example either.

I don't think we should be settling for this assumption that every new OS has to use more resources, simply because there are assumed to be more resources available in newer machines. Of all the OS pedigrees out there, Windows has been the worst at requiring more and more for each new version, and without easy ways to turn features off to better manage limited resources when necessary or prudent.

Regardless, I am glad to see that the new video requirements of Vista are prompting system manufacturers to finally start including better graphics hardware in all systems, even their low end models and laptops.
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Kappuru
forum bishonen


Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:49 am        Reply with quote

AFAIK, all releases of OSX up until leopard generally ran faster on the same hardware. That is to say, if you jumped from 10.2 to 10.4, it would at least 'feel' snappier due to streamlining of code and other things not transparent to the average user.
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108
fairy godmilf


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: oakland, california

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:04 am        Reply with quote

In other news, you can replace the Macbook Air battery.

So.

Seems like everyone was getting all worked up without ever having seen the actual machine. (Which is something people do a lot for Apple products, I guess.)
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