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L
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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 Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: Saving a state in one ROM then loading it in a different ROM |
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The Mac OS X port of Nestopia lets you do this!
Castlevania loaded in Super Mario Bros. 3:
Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link loaded in The Legend of Zelda 2 - Link no Bouken:
Spelunker loaded in Ys:
Castlevania 3: Dracula's Curse loaded in Castlevania 2: Simon's Quest:
Gradius II loaded in Gradius:
Final Fantasy loaded in Lemmings:
Contra loaded in Gryzor:
Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! loaded in Final Fantasy:
Super Mario Bros. 3 loaded in Mario Adventure:
(Note: unlike the others, this result is actually playable, albeit briefly.)
P.S: If you actually love these pictures then your sense of taste is probably quite out of whack. |
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bleak
wizard life
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:02 pm |
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| I like this. I like this a lot. |
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Rya.Reisender
banned
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Location: Weekend Web
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:53 pm |
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You could probably sell those pictures for a lot $$$.
By the way, around 7 years ago I noticed such a bug as well! But can't remember if it was an OHRRPGCE or an Emulator bug anymore.
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SplashBeats
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:16 pm |
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| i guess my taste is very out of whack |
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internisus
shafer sephiroth
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:18 pm |
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Yeah, this strikes me as something you could make an art exhibit out of and get attention and $$$.
I really like the Gradius one. |
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Swimmy
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:46 pm |
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I'm diggin' it. So what's going on here? Basic architecture seems to mostly stay the same, but the code for the tilesets comes from the new game? Something like that?
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Broco
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Bestburg, Cobrastan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:05 pm |
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| Swimmy wrote: |
| I'm diggin' it. So what's going on here? Basic architecture seems to mostly stay the same, but the code for the tilesets comes from the new game? Something like that? |
Sort of. The data in the ROM (everything permanent) stays the same, the data in the RAM (everything temporary) is entirely trashed. Note that it's not really relevant that the save state is from another game, you'd get the same kind of effect if you just filled the RAM with completely random bytes. Games don't have any kind of uniformity in what data they choose to store where, so where one game stores the information about which tiles are displayed on the screen could be say the music in another game. Trying to somehow treat music as tile metadata results in rubbish.
EDIT: Err prior to edit I assumed it was a save file rather than a save state, oops. Substituting save files would probably lead to more subtle glitchery akin to the -1 level in SMB1.
Last edited by Broco on Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:18 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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Talbain
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:06 pm |
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A save state is just a collection of data from a game, mostly offsets. The offsets are then loaded into memory and executed by the game internally. the reason the graphics, etc. can still be seen is because the game is just loading a data set from another game, and not the game itself.
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oligophagy
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:21 pm |
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EXPERIMENT 001
Metroid loaded in Kid Icarus:
Kid Icarus loaded in Metroid:
(Still halts). |
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kthorjensen
He brought three meals
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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skelethulu
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: OAKLAND
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:09 pm |
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| Talbain wrote: |
| A save state is just a collection of data from a game, mostly offsets. The offsets are then loaded into memory and executed by the game internally. the reason the graphics, etc. can still be seen is because the game is just loading a data set from another game, and not the game itself. |
This is made even more simple with the Famicom, Super Famicom, and Gameboys, all of which store data like current tile sets and palettes in the same places in memory. |
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oligophagy
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:44 pm |
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EXPERIMNNT 002
Super Mario Bros.:
Super Mario Bros. Remix - The New Adventures:
Remix loaded in Super Mario Bros.:
Super Mario Bros. loaded in Remix:
(Continues to run, suggests playing the levels of one in the skins of the other. In truth, a disorderly splicing). |
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The Drunken Samurai
tedious
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:26 am |
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so.....what does this acheive?
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bleak
wizard life
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:22 am |
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| I would play Remix loaded in SMB. That looks cool! |
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bleak
wizard life
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:24 am |
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| Also, was there a difference at all between Kid Icarus and Kid Icarus loaded with a Metroid save state? |
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M. Croche
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:13 am |
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| oligophagy wrote: |
[smb / remix]
(Continues to run, suggests playing the levels of one in the skins of the other. In truth, a disorderly splicing). |
how so? they fit neatly in the screens ... in play, is there any sort of graphical disintegration, or is the platforming affected? |
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L
⌐
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:05 am |
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Gradius II loaded in Mario Adventure:
(listen) |
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Slonie
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:20 am |
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Awesome thread, especially the musical version.
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bleak
wizard life
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:20 am |
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| Oh god that's superb. |
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Koji
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:46 pm |
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Loving the sound sample there. Also interesting what happens with games that share an engine. I remember that Metroid Zero Mission and Wario Land 4 did, if I have the time I'll try with those games.
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shnozlak
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: pushing crates in the sewer level
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parkbench
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:21 pm |
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I feel like it would be harder the more complex you get. Eventually I feel like if you tried to do with a PS2 game it would just refuse to do so. Or crash. But older systems--if you'll forgive me a priori conjecture--with simpler architecture can afford, or rather are able to make mistakes like this.
I did this awhile ago with different types of files interpreted into notepad (i don't mean long strings of nothing, somehow i found files that would only output a certain few characters).
But yah. Loving it. Moar moar moar.
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Six
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Location: cph
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:21 pm |
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| shnozlak wrote: |
any chance this could be done using n64 states? That could get freaky.
Im imagining textures from game b being stretched over models from game a. |
completely by coincidence, i found this video a few days ago while looking up stuff on cartridge tilting. |
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Broco
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Bestburg, Cobrastan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:24 pm |
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| parkbench wrote: |
| I feel like it would be harder the more complex you get. Eventually I feel like if you tried to do with a PS2 game it would just refuse to do so. Or crash. But older systems--if you'll forgive me a priori conjecture--with simpler architecture can afford, or rather are able to make mistakes like this. |
With the exception of the SMB1 romhack, all of these are crashing. |
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bleak
wizard life
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:37 pm |
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| How likely is it that any given combination of games is going to produce something that's playable for at least an appreciable amount of time? What is it exactly that all these games are choking on? |
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parkbench
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:42 pm |
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| Quote: |
| completely by coincidence, i found this video a few days ago while looking up stuff on cartridge tilting. |
wow, i just tried that out. majorly fun.
| Quote: |
| With the exception of the SMB1 romhack, all of these are crashing. |
No, I get that. But I mean they're getting far enough to...interface. I'm saying a next-gen game would just straight-up not load or bsod/crash.
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M. Croche
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:46 pm |
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| Six wrote: |
| completely by coincidence, i found this video a few days ago while looking up stuff on cartridge tilting. |
wow i always thought the trick worked because of the exact angle the cart was wrenched out at, and so on.
heh cartridge tilting. i used do it with ocarina of time, clip my way out kokiri forest without a sword, break the sky textures into various colors.
i was responsible for discovering "red haze" in lon lon ranch
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Broco
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Bestburg, Cobrastan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:49 pm |
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| bleak wrote: |
| How likely is it that any given combination of games is going to produce something that's playable for at least an appreciable amount of time? What is it exactly that all these games are choking on? |
They're choking on the fact that, er, their RAM is completely trashed. A single byte of corrupt RAM is often enough to crash a game, let alone all of it.
There would only be a reasonable possibility of a non-crash with two games with the same engine, which might put the same data in the same places in RAM. |
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Sushi K
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:53 pm |
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Wasn't there some way to do this with the actual cartridges themselves?
I remember rumors of people loading Mario swapping for some tennis game then putting Mario back in and getting new levels.
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haze
la belle poney sans merci
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:54 pm |
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| anyone ever heard of "yank the cart" cheats? turn on a game, replace it with another cartridge while the machine is still on, some variables don't get reset. I once bought this Genesis code book with a section on those. it's crazy that people actually experimented with those. |
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Broco
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Bestburg, Cobrastan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:04 pm |
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When I was 10 years old, one of my friends told me that after overwriting his SimAnt floppy disk with Space Quest 2, giant ants would come out of the trees to attack his Space Quest 2 character.
He was lying, though. |
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GrimmSweeper
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:51 am |
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I'm surprised no rom-hacker has thought up of creating two games from the same base (SMB1, for example). Then when there's a pit in one that is completely unjumpable, save state, load the other game, load state and viola! There is now a platform right in the middle that allows safe passage.
The possibilities are great. |
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Broco
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Bestburg, Cobrastan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:01 am |
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| GrimmSweeper wrote: |
I'm surprised no rom-hacker has thought up of creating two games from the same base (SMB1, for example). Then when there's a pit in one that is completely unjumpable, save state, load the other game, load state and viola! There is now a platform right in the middle that allows safe passage.
The possibilities are great. |
I imagine that will be one of the modes in Braid. |
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Focus
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:01 am |
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| internisus wrote: |
| Yeah, this strikes me as something you could make an art exhibit out of and get attention and $$$. |
Hrm. I'm thinking if people knew that's all you did, not so much.
But this has opportunity.
Edit: I did not pay enough attention and thought these were playable.
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M. Croche
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:51 am |
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!!!!
someone's going to make stop motion animation out of hundreds of crossover savestates, placed milliseconds apart.
they'll have a less arduous time when they develop some sort of mod to rapidly produce savestates as their emulator plays.
they'll presumably have to load all their states in their other designated rom one by one, though, taking screencaps of each. oh but oh i'm sure there's a shortcut around this too.
(twitching around # frames per second) i wonder if any of it will look coherent????
Last edited by M. Croche on Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:56 am; edited 2 times in total |
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M. Croche
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:06 am |
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| vision wrote: |
takes me back to topic 4304
also, "!!!!" |
i wish i could play sawtooth's smb roms listen to his smb mp3s (404 in 4304) |
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L
⌐
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:45 am |
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Donkey Kong Classics loaded in Lemmings:
Kirby's Adventure loaded in Final Fantasy:
Kirby's Adventure loaded in Super Mario Bros. 2(J):
Mario Movie loaded in Mega Man V:
1200-in-1 (Binary Land) loaded in CMC80s:
The Legend of Zelda 2: Link no Bouken loaded in Mario Movie:
(Listen) |
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v84j3gs2uc7ns4
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:25 am |
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Six
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Location: cph
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:30 am |
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it's fantastic that most of those screenshots are still recognizable.
related: this... this is something.
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nothing in this album was sequenced, no outboard effects were used.
EVERYTHING is from the sega genesis audio out, recorded directly
into a computer. some bits of silence and excess noise were cut out.
using a sega genesis, if the cartridge is pulled out while the
game is playing and music is audible you will hear a tone.
this tone can be looping, a portion of a song looping, or even
a tone that seems to fade out to near silence.
next, you must find a cartridge that works with the one you pulled.
this is done purely by testing and seeing if they match.
once the cartridge that works is inserted you will notice
a drastic change in sound.
anything from noise, to drum patterns, to full songs.
these songs may contain elements from either cartridge or both.
or they might sound completely new and distorted.
we have experienced everything from volume increases,
to distortions, to voice samples, piano sounds, horn sounds,
ambient sounds, classic video game sounds.
but nothing sounds like it did on the original cartridge.
upon inserting the same game as you pull out, sometimes
the original song will continue to play as it would.
sometimes the original song will be altered and you gain
extra polyphony! |
here's a sample track: paperboy delivers us acid |
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M. Croche
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:14 am |
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| Quote: |
I wonder what would happen if you did this sequentially and made it into one video that played like normal |
yes this is what i mean with stop motion!
i wonder how difficult it would be to mod nestopia to repeatedly, automatically save, pumping out state file after state file (and in small enough increments) though. |
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Monthenor
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:06 pm |
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I just tried loading a Mega Man 5 state in Mega Man 4 and 6, and the results were completely disinteresting. Just garbled sprites and a single tone. It seems Capcom did have time to change something in between games.
What was interesting is that a Mega Man 2 state loaded in 4, 5, or 6 came out with perfect graphics. Did MM2 store the entire screen in RAM or something?
MM2 restored in Cocoron merely reset the ROM, and it was playable after that as Cocoron. |
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