[belthegor]

[analogos]

Chup, have you ever seen a videogame from this decade? They are not comic books.

[BotageL]

Oh, come on guys, everyone knows there's absolutely no difference between drawing static art for a comic book and animations for a videogame.
_________________

http://www.mdgeist.com/

[G.]

[Touran]

[DJ]

[DonMarco]

Marvel vs Capcom 2 and BlazBlue regular edition coming out next week.

Best fighting game week evar?
_________________
Still alive.

[Drem]

Got a call from GameStop saying they'll have my copy of KOFXII later today. Anyone else picking it up?

[CubaLibre]

Uhhh
_________________
Let's Play, starring me.

[Drem]

I wasn't sure how many people decided to renege on KOF after being satisfied with BB.

Or more specifically, is anyone getting it today?

[DJ]

Me.
_________________

[idle]

A couple dudes over at SRK got ahold of KOFXII already, and apparently the netcode blows. Good job, SNK.

It's also got two lukewarm reviews to its credit thus far.

Hmm.

[Drem]

It seems mixed, because a few people have said they've had some good experiences. I doubt too many people have the game yet, so hopefully once it starts getting around, the increased number of people will allow better matchups/netplay. Also, people are complaining about the netplay on Ignition's KOFXII facebook page (all the cool kids have one), and whoever runs the facebook page replied:

[Drem]

[LandRoverAttack]

Wow! If netcode is so easy to fix, why doesn't everyone do it?
_________________

[Drem]

Because nobody loves us more than SNK. Well, maybe SEGA, but we all knew that.

[analogos]

I'll probably have KOFXII in a week-ish, but I know I'm gonna feel bad about it either way because I don't see how I can really fit it in in the long run. But I'll support SNK and spend some time getting familiar with the mechanics and all that, and we'll see what happens.

[Drem]

I picked up my reserved copy. It was up on the shelf ready to be sold to anyone who asked for it.

I only had time for one run through arcade mode, but the game's pretty fun. I had heard XII was a lot slower than previous games, but it seems a lot faster to me (then again, I was never good at KOF). Maybe this is because the stages are a lot smaller than in previous games, so jumps seem to cover a lot more space. Comboing also seems easier to do and damage output seemed pretty high, making matches for a lot faster than in XI. I remember hearing the official Xbox magazine review complained about distracting backgrounds, but I think that complaint says more about the reviewer than the game. The backgrounds are pretty ignorable because your characters are so large on the screen. It left a good first impression, so I hope the upcoming patch manages to fix whatever problems the online mode has.

Note for PS3 users: there's an option to install the game in the Options menu. I did this first, so I don't know how load times are normally, but installing cuts down load times to 1-2 seconds. Pretty nice.

[firenze]

KOF XII is pretty awful.

Before I expand, let me explain that I'm not someone with a mild interest in the series. I own all 10 Neo Geo AES carts. The NGP games, the GBA games, all of the Maximum Impact games, etc. I own multiple legitimate versions of every game in the main series (for instance, 4 different legit versions of KOF 2000 - AES, DC, PS2, PS2 again in the NESTS collection). I have like 15 legit soundtracks. I collect Gamest/Arcadia books for the series. A couple Japanese tournament DVDs. I'm a pretty serious KOF fan.

Here's a list of stuff that's bad about XII:

* Tiny roster. Especially for a team-based game, it's inexcusable to have the smallest roster in the history of the series. Even '94 had more characters. Yes, I understand it takes longer to animate these new HD sprites, but jeez... not only is the number of characters small, but see my next point:

* Dumbed down characters. Not only are there few characters, but they're simplistic versions of what we're used to having. Nearly everyone loses some abilities. Terry can't Power Dunk (or Bustaaaa Wooolf). Ralf has one super and three specials, one of which is a button mash. Athena loses her aerial super and teleports. Kyo reverts to '94 version. It goes on and on. Some games go by the theory that fewer characters is OK because the characters have sufficient complexity to be interesting - BlazBlue, VF series, etc. But KOF XII has a basic engine, characters that are as complex as the standard from the early 90s, and fewer characters than ever in a KOF game. Not good.

* Atrocious single player options. Play five 3-on-3 "time trial" fights. Then the game is over. No boss. No story, other than two generic cutscenes acting like it's a broadcast of a fighting tournament. No endings. No different stuff for selecting complete teams. Completely bare bones and boring as hell.

* Bad netcode. OK, single player sucks but maybe they're trying to make it a super-accessible (dumbed down) multiplayer game. Well then, why is the netcode so bad? It's a slideshow, and it's laughable.

* Overly simplistic game engine. OK, you took away a lot of moves from the characters, is there anything interesting in the system? Not really.
- One super bar, SSFT2 style. No varying levels, no flashing lifebar with low life to dish out a super, no KOF staple Advance/Extra mode. No "groove select" style like they tried with Neowave.
- No tag battles like the two previous main story games (2003 and XI)
- No interesting "fun" options like the goofy unlockable costumes from the MI games.
- No unique systems like the series is known for - Strikers, Wire Attacks, Tag Battles, etc. Nothing here but plain old stripped down 1-on-1
- The basic Weak Punch + Weak Kick roll is there (as it is in every KOF)
- The only unique elements are the HP+HK acting kind of like SF4's Focus attacks, and the Just Defend-ish counters that you can use as you gain meter in the Counter bar from taking actions. If you hit back+HP at the same time, you can perform a counter and finish a combo off it.

* Crap soundtrack. I've always loved the KOF soundtrack. Even the soundtracks that aren't as popular do something interesting. 2001 has a consistent style and theme. '97 at least tries something interesting by giving soundtracks that match characters instead of stages, and using ambient stage sounds for the "less important" characters who don't have a theme. But XII has no catchy beats, nothing interesting at all, and it's buried under a bizarre muffled crowd noise. It's lazy and sounds ugly.

* 6 boring backgrounds. This series has always had some beautifully detailed backgrounds with little touches everywhere. Not only does XII have a laughable number of backgrounds, they're BORING. A couple are at least decent - the snowy one, and the Chinese street with pigs are kinda good. The others are below the usual KOF standard. Nothing interesting going on in the background, no changes for stuff like time of day (as KOF has traditionally done), etc.

* EDIT - My SF4 TE stick does work now. I installed the game to HDD and now it's working. Really odd though, and I tried for like 30min before to no avail. Hmmph.

I am not impressed. People think stuff like KOF '98 UM belongs on XBLA/PSN. I'd rather pay full price for a FULL game like that, and pay $15-$20 for what's obviously just a pretty but very shallow fighter in KOF XII. It honestly feels like a partial game. When I see stuff like GT5 Prologue and Wipeout HD, I understand why they're being sold online for a lower price - they're stripped down games that have some eye candy. KOF XII feels like that to me.

[Drem]

firenze we're going to fight (with lots of lag, obviously)


Also, my PS3 SF4 TE stick works fine with KOFXII. I'm not sure what's causing a problem on your end.

[Talbain]

No tagging sounds awful. MAME's all I need baby. She's a cruel mistress, but someday Naomi will be emulated. And when that day comes... life will be good.
_________________

[firenze]

[analogos]

I'm concerned by what you're saying firenze, but not quite convinced. Simple doesn't necessarily mean less depth, it only means less complexity. Super Turbo is less complex than Third Strike, but it's still ultimately deeper because the consequence of each action holds more weight. If this game strips all the cosmetically-inclined, convoluted-for-convolutedness-sake //[NEW GAME SYSTEMS]\\ in favor of being a solid thinking-man's fighter, then I don't see that as such a bad thing. Guess I'll have to investigate further.

[firenze]

[belthegor]

[Touran]

firenze has raised some alarming points about this new KOF, Terry not being able to buster wolf is pretty much a "fuck this game" for me. I won't be purchasing this until I can get some more reports on the overall gameplay.

And for the record, I prefer 3rd strike's complexity over Super Turbo's simplicity. I'm still on the fence about SF4 despite logging enough time with it, mostly because it still hasn't clicked with me.
_________________
Man, I'm sorry.

[Dark Age Iron Savior]

[analogos]

I have a pretty large amount of appreciation for both ST and 3S's approaches, I just wanted to throw it out there that streamlining doesn't have to be the same thing as dumbing down. I mean, the game being a fairly heavy re-envisioning of the series' roots seemed to be a pretty obvious goal from day one--enough to be its main appeal, I thought. So not that I can't see how this would actually turn out to be bad, I'm just not too surprised by it. Not enough to reject it merely on principle at least.

I admit it looks a little boring so far anyway. Though...three specials and two supers isn't really that unusual.

[BotageL]

Yeah, I'm not feeling this as much as I'd been hoping. I certainly don't mind the more 90s-style of fighter gameplay - Battle Fantasia is one of my favourite fighters in recent years - but a lot of the characters just feel weird and limited to me. Kyo really stands out as still feeling "complete," while characters like Mature and Ralf seem almost crippled, like MUGEN character betas who don't have all their moves implemented yet. And the netplay being as bad as it is, out of the box, is upsetting. If the supposedly-upcoming patch actually makes it worthwhile, great, but I'm really not expecting that to happen.

I'm not sure what to think about Critical Counters yet, either. Going into crazy chain juggle mode is fun, certainly, but I'm not sold on the manner of execution. Land a counter-hit close C when your other gauge is filled by taking hits? It's kind of like a retarded version of SF4's ultras, only you have little control over when you can use them.
_________________

http://www.mdgeist.com/

[belthegor]

[!=]

I've read KOFXII described as a KOF for those who never have played KOF before.

Personally I like small rosters, and would have loved to see a MOTW2.

Firenze, is the netcode worse than XBLA.98UM/MOTW?

[Chuplayer]

KOFXII
Your high budget fighting game dollars hard at work

[Mikey]

I think I've decided I am not going to buy any more fighting games for consoles. I bought SFIV and barely played it. I just want to go to an arcade and play against strangers and maybe make new friends/enemies. Cashing in my next $60 for quarters ITT

[Toptube]

There is to be a day 1 patch for the netcode on PS3 with a similar patch to follow soon for 360. I'll hold off buying KoFXII until impressions come out of the patch.

[Drem]

The AI in KOFXII is horrendous.

[gooktime]

isn't there an achievement for beating the arcade mode in 3 minutes or something?

[Isfet]

4 minutes.


ok, so i've played this in the arcade a bit and now since 9 this morning and i've come to some conclusions about the game. the short version is, i think KoFXII is a good game, but not the best KoF game. in a lot of ways, it sort of feels more like straight up Fatal Fury to me (3-person teams notwithstanding). which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's lost a bit of the smoothness that KoFXI had.

what it's replaced with is interesting, though. i think Firenze mentioned it plays similar to a 90s fighter and that's kind of true. characters have been stripped of some moves, but it's deceptive. combos are a lot different in this game and the whole counter combo (or whatever it's called [the green gauge]) is a really weird twist to the gameplay. i wouldn't go so far as to say the CCs are as annoying as Ultras, though, because the pacing of the game is just so much different than SF4. the CCs actually help to make things a little more hectic and fast paced. which...i dunno, it's weird. the game seems to move very slow (as in the characters themselves are sort of slow moving), but it appears like SNK attempted to account for this with new systems and other odd tweaks (like making rounds only 60 seconds).

i personally think the backgrounds look gorgeous and are beautifully animated. other than maybe one generic stadium, any scene with people in the background is just a pleasure to look at.


i agree with the more general complaints. some characters feel unfinished, but...i dunno, i feel like that's something they started in XI as well. Ash only had like, 2 special moves to begin with. so it seems like more of a trend, to me.

it also would be nice if there were simply more characters. apparently it took them forever to do this or something, but hopefully in the future they'll just keep adding to what they've done.


or maybe no one will end up buying this and it will be a terribly failed experiment.

[belthegor]

Guys I made an SBF thread for KOF XII, just in case people change their minds and actually start to like the game. Go post your PSN IDs, Gamertags, etc.

[BotageL]

Whether we like the game or not isn't as important as whether or not the netcode is actually patched to a usable state.
_________________

http://www.mdgeist.com/

[Isfet]

ive found that if the connection is yellow or above, matches go fine.

not that there aren't hiccups

[Persona-sama]

So if I wanted to pick up a new fighter for the 360 that wasn't SF4, which one should I get? It's between KOF XII, BlazBlue, Battle Fantasia, or, I dunno, Virtua Fighter 5 since I still haven't picked that one up.
_________________