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Toups
tyranically banal
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Location: Ebon Keep
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 Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:24 pm |
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| JamesE wrote: |
sup aderack, get a therapist
People who stay only dorks care about HD aren't on the money: the public is aware of it, and the market is pushing for it. I'd rather it didn't happen, but it is going to happen. My mother is aware of HD. |
This is more true in Japan. Maybe also in Europe, too? But I can personally vouch that in the good ol' US of A the idea of "HD" exists more as a concept than as something "real". To wit, you can still sell someone a 75" 1080p DLP and he'll run his regular cable through it via composite and still think it's awesome because the football players are life size. I have witnessed this first hand and I tried to explain to the guy how terrible the artifacting was and how poorly the image was being scaled and he was just like "yeah but the football player is life size it's awesome!"
At least based on my experiences with these sorts of people, it's hard to imagine either format catching on mainstream. I can maybe see HDTV sets catching on, but that's about it right now. Especially when progressive scan DVD players already look so nice.
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Toups
tyranically banal
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Location: Ebon Keep
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:02 pm |
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| JamesE wrote: |
| yeah but toups you live in the south |
touche
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Toups
tyranically banal
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Location: Ebon Keep
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:11 pm |
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| Eric-Jon Rössel Waugh wrote: |
| Mister Toups wrote: |
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Toups
tyranically banal
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Location: Ebon Keep
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:07 pm |
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| JamesE wrote: |
People like owning the physical media. One hard drive crash and you've lost anything which is no longer on sale.
It would be good for the environment, though, so I probably support it. |
The thing is, people were willing to replace their VHS movies with DVD because it had several clear advantages: the picture quality was dramatically better, they were easier to navigate, they were smaller, etc. Now you have a situation where, yes, it's a new format, but there's only ONE clear advantage: increased picture resolution. which isn't even noticable on 90% of people's televisions, and even when it IS noticable it's not THAT noticable compared to a standard DVD that's regularly upscaled.
the problem is people aren't going to be willing to replace their DVD collections for such a weak incentive. IF movies only became available on HD DVD or Blu-Ray then they would have to start upgrading, but that won't happen until one of the formats is widely, popularly adopted. It's a chicken and egg scenario, really. except in this case there doesn't seem anything to even get the momentum moving. The PS3 seems to have failed on that count, though I suppose it's still too early to write it off entirely.
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Toups
tyranically banal
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Location: Ebon Keep
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:05 pm |
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| SuperWes wrote: |
| Mister Toups wrote: |
| the problem is people aren't going to be willing to replace their DVD collections for such a weak incentive. |
Part of what's good about both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is that you don't have to replace your old movies. Regardless of which type of player you have you can still play regular DVDs. Since people don't have to replace their collections I don't think Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will ever become quite as overtly successful as DVD. There's just not the incentive to rebuy your collection like their was with VHS-> DVD, but there's certainly the incentive to continue your collection in HD instead.
Personally, I probably won't buy another DVD unless it's incredibly cheap, but if the option presents itself and is under $25 I might go for the Blu-Ray. In a way, the new format has just decreased my urge to buy movies at all until a clear winner is announced. Thankfully Netflix rents all formats!
-Wes |
Yes, but why would you even buy a player to began with, then. I mean unless you already have an HD television? And... even then, why would you?
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Toups
tyranically banal
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Location: Ebon Keep
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:04 pm |
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| SuperWes wrote: |
| Mister Toups wrote: |
| Yes, but why would you even buy a player to began with, then. I mean unless you already have an HD television? And... even then, why would you? |
Because if you've got an HD Television there's a feeling like you're wasting it when you use it for non-HD content. Some people are convinced that Upscaled DVDs are nearly as good, but when you actually sit down and watch an HD Movie there's a noticeable difference. If blue skies matter to you at all you should really see them in HD.
But yeah. I agree with you that it's stupid to buy a dedicated player. The 360 HD-DVD drive is probably worth it given that it comes with King Kong, and the PS3 is worth it if you want to play PS3 games too, but to spend more than $200 on a player that might not have any more movies available come two years from now is just silly. And if you're buying HD movies when you don't even have an HD TV you're a complete moron.
-Wes |
The only difference is the level of detail. Picture quality is just as good.
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Toups
tyranically banal
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Location: Ebon Keep
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:28 pm |
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| SuperWes wrote: |
| Mister Toups wrote: |
| The only difference is the level of detail. Picture quality is just as good. |
You really need to explain this to me because it sort of sounds like you just contradicted yourself.
I watched King Kong in both regular DVD and HD-DVD, and the regular DVD was much blurrier. It looked like watching film where watching it on HD-DVD was more like looking through a window. Last week I compared the DVD of Ice Age 1 to the Blu-Ray of Ice Age 2. Ice Age two was more colorful by an incredible amount, and just looked a lot more detailed. It might have been the difference in 3D technology when the movies were made, but there was an enormous difference. |
Were you watching King Kong through an upscaling DVD player? If not that would I was watching some upscaled DVD's on dalenixon's television the other night and they looked incredibly sharp. In terms of contrast, color depth, and all that other good stuff I have never seen a significant difference aside from increased detail. upscaled dvd's look just as vibrant and "really there" as any 1080p content I've seen.
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Toups
tyranically banal
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Location: Ebon Keep
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:04 am |
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| SuperWes wrote: |
| HD TVs are selling like mad to people like me who may or may not actually care about picture quality, but at least like to pretend that they do. |
fixed.
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Toups
tyranically banal
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Location: Ebon Keep
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:39 pm |
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Actually, for #1 to even happen there needs to be enough support to began with from tech heads and videophiles to warrant it. Given how expensive that stuff is to manufacture, I reckon they'll need to be moving a lot of product to reach a point where it becomes cheap enough to manufacture en masse for a profit. I still think it's too early to tell.
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Toups
tyranically banal
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Location: Ebon Keep
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:22 pm |
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Actually I was watching The Fifth Element in 1080p at an AV store the other day and it was so detailed that you could see all sorts of flaws and specks in the original film reel.
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Toups
tyranically banal
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Location: Ebon Keep
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:27 pm |
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| Baines wrote: |
| Eric-Jon Rössel Waugh wrote: |
| What you seem to be implying is that actual demand isn't a prerequisite for building a market. |
No. I'm saying that need isn't a prerequisite for demand.
Well, depending on what is meant by "need".
People certainly didn't "need" a Hummer as a personal vehicle. But the whole bigger is better status symbol mentality fueled some demand for Hummers.
Your posts have focused on why people don't really "need" HD/Blu-ray DVD. With that has been included the tone that people won't buy into such formats without some kind of additional incentive (like ceasing production of normal DVDs.)
But just because people don't need the improvements of HD/Blu-ray doesn't mean the formats are doomed. People will buy what they think they need, even if it doesn't really serve them an appreciable advantage.
Am I saying either HD or Blu-ray will dominate the DVD market without a forced phase-out of regular DVDs? No. But I'm also not saying that HD and Blu-ray are guaranteed to go the way of LaserDisc. |
This isn't a question of "need" at all, no matter how you define. Consumer electronics is increasingly becoming a leisure market. No one "needs" DVD's at all, or a television, even, for that matter, let alone the hi-def equivalents. It's a question of whether the desire for them is there. Is there even a compelling selling point? The difference between a hummer and a Ford F150 are pretty obvious even to someone who doesn't know how to drive -- but the difference between a DVD and an HD-DVD is nowhere near as clear, even to some movie buffs, and once it is explained, it's nowhere near as compelling.
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Toups
tyranically banal
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Location: Ebon Keep
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:18 am |
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rich people will, yeah!
everyone else, maybe not so much.
it's too early to tell. it's entirely possibly for HD-Ray to catch on but there are so many mitigating factors it's just as feasible for it to never become mainstream.
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