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God Hand Redemption
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luvcraft
buy my game buy my game me me me


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Cobrastan

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:01 am        Reply with quote

In another time, and another place, Ben Reed wrote:
(but seriously I don't get why ANYONE on these forums wouldn't like God Hand, if not for the gameplay then for the presentation...it has a wisecracking jackass with a magic hand and a hot female foil beating the asses of every stereotypical Japanese beat-em-up-game adversary imaginable in semi-glorious 3D with a quirky and peppy soundtrack, classically bad but well-acted-and-delivered English one-liners, and a truly smarmy hardcore attitude that dares to gleefully condescend to the weaker and less dedicated player in a world of prissy hand-holding and casual-gaming softness. And above all else God hand takes NOTHING seriously -- not even ITSELF. Now if THAT'S not a select button game, I don't know WHAT is.)


The presentation I LOVED (which is why it's still in my collection) the gameplay I failed to love.
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google



Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:31 am        Reply with quote

Hi guys!

I bought this for $25 on the strength of consolevania's review, and I refuse to play it until Sony sort their fucking PS2 emulation out!

The title screen made my TV bleed, so Im not playing until they correct it...

Can anyone help?

Or can anyone lend me a PS2?
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Toups
tyranically banal


Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Location: Ebon Keep

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:05 am        Reply with quote

google wrote:
Hi guys!

I bought this for $25 on the strength of consolevania's review, and I refuse to play it until Sony sort their fucking PS2 emulation out!

The title screen made my TV bleed, so Im not playing until they correct it...

Can anyone help?

Or can anyone lend me a PS2?


I... thought they did sort out the PS2 emulation?

Does this game not emulate well?

I wouldn't hold your breath given how obscure it is!
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SuperWes



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:41 am        Reply with quote

Mister Toups wrote:
I... thought they did sort out the PS2 emulation?


They did. Things look fine with firmware 1.5, which came out, oh, a few weeks ago I think.

Someone should probably tell him that GodHand's not a very pretty game to begin with.

-Wes
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Toups
tyranically banal


Joined: 03 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:46 am        Reply with quote

I think godhand is better looking than most people give it credit for. technically it's very dated and cheap but the environments are put together pretty well and never come off as ugly. nothing in the game has blown me away but I'm impressed with how convincing and "solid" the environment design is.
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SplashBeats
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:15 am        Reply with quote

The level design works well enough. God Hand seems to love you as much as you love it.
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dmauro



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:08 pm        Reply with quote

Mister Toups wrote:
I think godhand is better looking than most people give it credit for. technically it's very dated and cheap but the environments are put together pretty well and never come off as ugly. nothing in the game has blown me away but I'm impressed with how convincing and "solid" the environment design is.

I think we're playing two different games.
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google



Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:44 pm        Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
Mister Toups wrote:
I... thought they did sort out the PS2 emulation?


They did. Things look fine with firmware 1.5, which came out, oh, a few weeks ago I think.


Oooo, I have had the PS3 in the bedroom, not hooked up the the internets, so I didnt know it was available!

Quote:
Someone should probably tell him that GodHand's not a very pretty game to begin with.

-Wes


You can tell me youself!

So, thanks.

-Google
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luvcraft
buy my game buy my game me me me


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:19 pm        Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
Someone should probably tell him that GodHand's not a very pretty game to begin with.


I think it's fairly pretty for a bunch of old west towns and caves. It's no SotC or God of War, but it didn't HURT to look at. The character design, obviously, is where most of the effort went, and they all look super in that "homage to early 90s beat-em-ups where everyone looked like a gay European rapper" way.

google wrote:
Oooo, I have had the PS3 in the bedroom, not hooked up the the internets, so I didnt know it was available!


Yet another excellent reason to read Inverted Castle, so you can keep up on these kinds of things. :)X

google wrote:
I bought this for $25 on the strength of consolevania's review


What episode was this? I haven't seen any Consolevania since "Independents Day".
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google



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:35 pm        Reply with quote

[quote="luvcraft"]

google wrote:
Oooo, I have had the PS3 in the bedroom, not hooked up the the internets, so I didnt know it was available!


Yet another excellent reason to read Inverted Castle, so you can keep up on these kinds of things. :)X

Bookmarked!

Less disturbing food on your next post, please.

Quote:
google wrote:
I bought this for $25 on the strength of consolevania's review


What episode was this? I haven't seen any Consolevania since "Independents Day".


Sorry, twasnt Consolevania, but they're BBC commissioned show, Videogaiden (that I downloaded).

I've got the episode at home...I can send it to you if you want...(how do I do that?)
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luvcraft
buy my game buy my game me me me


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:42 pm        Reply with quote

google wrote:
Sorry, twasnt Consolevania, but they're BBC commissioned show, Videogaiden (that I downloaded).

I've got the episode at home...I can send it to you if you want...(how do I do that?)


I will find it. I'm glad to hear that they got hired to do another season, since things were looking bleak after the first one. I wrote about VideoGaiden here (also on Inverted Castle).
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google



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:50 pm        Reply with quote

It wasnt too bad either...

Still a little too 'hardcore' for me, in that I wished they would look at some of the more 'popular' games...but whatever!
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SuperWes



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:12 pm        Reply with quote

Mister Toups wrote:
I think godhand is better looking than most people give it credit for. technically it's very dated and cheap but the environments are put together pretty well and never come off as ugly. nothing in the game has blown me away but I'm impressed with how convincing and "solid" the environment design is.


Please take a look:


Bloodrayne 2


God Hand

Either neither of these games are good looking or both of them are. Personally, I think the top one looks a lot better. I'd rather play the bottom one, but that doesn't really matter.

-Wes
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google



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:16 pm        Reply with quote

Is it wrong that im hard?
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Predator Goose



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:18 pm        Reply with quote

google wrote:
Is it wrong that im hard?


If it's for BloodRayne, yes.

If you're gay for God Hand, it's ok.
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google



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:20 pm        Reply with quote

Predator Goose wrote:
google wrote:
Is it wrong that im hard?


If it's for BloodRayne, yes.

If you're gay for God Hand, it's ok.

Its 50/50 right now...
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shrugtheironteacup
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:28 pm        Reply with quote

If those screenshots had been in the reverse order then I would have totally gotten a gay God Hand erection only to have it crushed into flaccidity by Bloodrayne.
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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:57 am        Reply with quote

I'm playing this game now, and I've spent probably over 80 hours with it. I've gotten as far as level 1 on Hard; I'm almost through with the No-Godhand/No-Roulette challenge to unlock extra music; and I'm close to completing the Arena challenges.

The gameplay is excellent. It combines planning, gameplay skill, and luck in a way that feels like old-school gaming in my memories. (Old-school games were pretty short on the "planning" part, and half the time short on the "gameplay skill" part, too, sometimes coming down to just luck. That's why I wrote that God Hand is how I remember old-school games: it pretties up the bruises.

The only single part of the gameplay that I thought could use work: enemy targeting. Many times, I've tried to escape an enemy and jump-kick a jar next to another enemy, only to find that Gene decided to jump-kick the nearby enemy. Likewise, I've often tried to attack the enemy directly in front of Gene, and Gene attacks the enemy 90-degrees to his right. The auto-target system is good for an auto-target system, but it should have been left as much in the player's control as the rest of the gameplay.

The main question for that is "Which button would change targets?" That's tricky, because the controller is already pretty tightly mapped. Perhaps the God Hand trigger could have been assigned the first spot on the Roulette wheel.

On the downside, this game reminds me of all those titles that I, while playing Segagaga, pushed onto the market before they had polished. To compare media, God Hand is like the second draft of a meticulously plotted novel. The intended experience is solid, but certain areas really, really need revision.

The backgrounds make the game feel very half-assed. It's like someone took an cosmic exacto-knife and carved out out tons of masonry where the camera needs to swivel. This is functional, yes, but that's all.

The dispersal of the save points was laughably bad. I'm not talking about areas where you get a save point after defeating one room full of enemies. I'm talking about areas where you run fifteen feet, enter a door, and are suddenly given ANOTHER save point. If they beta tested this game, they either need to listen to their testers or get better testers.

I thought the worst part was the attempted humor. If this game had been executed by a few fifteen year old boys all scared shitless that they might be gay, I might understand why the jokes reek of stale pornography. Much of the "light-hearted" content brings out the worst of this weird otaku/moe sense of masculinity in Japanese gaming, from the voyeuristic drawings of Olivia to the fetishized dominatrices to the Playboy bunnies. If otaku ever wonder why they have such a hard time getting laid, God Hand should furnish a fine example of what most women don't like.

I also found the implied rape-killing of Shannon (after her demon-form boss fight) in incredibly poor taste.

I have my doubts about the way they chose to localize this, too. It seems that the localization staff decided to convey the original jokes via analogues in American pop culture, and I don't trust that this is a good way to localize games. The referential jokes work if you're plugged into the subculture that they stem from, like the names of the Chihuahuas. (Mikami's Head, Fission Mailed, etc.) Unless you're in a certain subculture, the jokes alienate and confuse more then they entertain.

Not to say that audience-specific humor is bad! I just don't think it succeeds in this case. Even when I got it (it took some research to understand what was up with the "Alexander the Great" birdsong), the bare reference to the meme wasn't enough. You got to get that shit to go somewhere.

Anyway, my beef with the localization ties to my beef with the localization for Super Paper Mario. In SPM, the Office Space character's affectations were grating and bland, leaving me to question why they didn't attempt an original comic voice. I have the same questions for God Hand.

The answer to this question is pretty clear, though, and here's Ron Gilbert's answer:

Rob Gilbert wrote:
Stephen Totilo of Slate writes about Why aren't video games funny and misses what I think is the obvious conclusion: game developers aren't that funny.

God Hand, with exceptions, fit this description perfectly for me.

At least the game's fun as hell and has a great soundtrack. I give props to anyone who recognized the slightly altered main riff from The Ventures' Hawaii Five-O in Gene's Rock-A-Bye.

First substantial post on SB in forever!
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diplo



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:14 am        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:
enemy targeting.


yes. i can't describe how annoying it was to do that smash the car challenge, but usually target the automobile during jump-kicks instead of the immediate dangers - when they were right in front of me.
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Mr. Apol
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Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:42 am        Reply with quote

professor_scissors wrote:
I only used one Double Shaolin on the final boss, right at the end of the fight. It just seemed wrong to use that move more than once.


i do shit like that in videogames too :D
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brillo



Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Location: Washington (the wet one)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:57 am        Reply with quote

The problem I had with Godhand was that it was too easy to abuse the crazy freakout R2 mode. You could do cool dodges and stuff but the later fights (Tiger Joe) just felt like races to get that meter filled up and go into invincible mode. And purposely not using a game tactic has never really been my style. Forward dodges make it all a little more tolerable.

Also, still can't find this in brick and mortars in my area. Sad.
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kthorjensen
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:11 pm        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:

I also found the implied rape-killing of Shannon (after her demon-form boss fight) in incredibly poor taste.


what
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luvcraft
buy my game buy my game me me me


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:29 pm        Reply with quote

kthorjensen wrote:
Adilegian wrote:

I also found the implied rape-killing of Shannon (after her demon-form boss fight) in incredibly poor taste.


what


double what
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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:55 pm        Reply with quote

luvcraft wrote:
kthorjensen wrote:
Adilegian wrote:

I also found the implied rape-killing of Shannon (after her demon-form boss fight) in incredibly poor taste.


what


double what

Gene defeats Shannon and walks away from her figure lying on the ground, and says something to the effect, "She's all yours" to the guys who had previously been tortured. You see them start to stomp on her, and Gene has a rare somber look on his face as he doesn't look back.

There was already established sexual tension between the human prisoners and their demon guards (fetishized dominatrices), Shannon's a succubus, and the game is pretty clear about its stance on the eroticism of power role-reversal.

On top of that, whatever they were doing to her was apparently something Gene didn't care to watch. He's beaten the shit out of tons of demons/humans by this point, so it seems unlikely that he's fazed by a mere lynching.

Given the locker-room attitude toward women in the game, I don't think it's a far-fetched conclusion.
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kthorjensen
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:02 pm        Reply with quote

what
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:13 pm        Reply with quote

uh, I got the distinct impression that they just beat the crap out of her. I saw NO implications of rape.
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Adilegian
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:25 pm        Reply with quote

luvcraft wrote:
uh, I got the distinct impression that they just beat the crap out of her. I saw NO implications of rape.

I don't think there's any need to get defensive. As I wrote above, I saw implications of rape in the context of the scene, for the reasons given above.

From another vantage point, it's scene straight out of some trash hentai manga. Woman fallen prey to her wanton sexual lusts gets assaulted by an anonymous crowd of men and gang raped. And, in the end, "she gets what she deserved."

Other questions arise: why didn't humans gang up and beat Elvis down? Why not Belze? Why Shannon?

It's not like the human guys aren't musing about Shannon's sexual tastes. Talk to three of them in one of the prisons, and they say, in summary:

"You think Shannon likes big guys? Yeah, I bet she likes them big. What about Elvis? He's a hunka-hunka burnin' love."

We can agree to disagree on this, but these are the reasons why I've drawn my conclusion. I think it's well supported by the game.
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kthorjensen
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:33 pm        Reply with quote

Quote:
Other questions arise: why didn't humans gang up and beat Elvis down? Why not Belze? Why Shannon?


Because neither Elvis or Belze were keeping humans as slaves?

This is sort of creepy, man. Just because a girl likes to fuck, as they say...
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Deets



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:36 pm        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:

From another vantage point, it's scene straight out of some trash hentai manga. Woman fallen prey to her wanton sexual lusts gets assaulted by an anonymous crowd of men and gang raped. And, in the end, "she gets what she deserved."

Doesn't the scene in question depict the "rape" with cartoon sound effects and a cloud of smoke out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon?
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Adilegian
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:36 pm        Reply with quote

kthorjensen wrote:
This is sort of creepy, man. Just because a girl likes to fuck, as they say...

LOL! Comedy gold.

I'm so out of this conversation.
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:35 pm        Reply with quote

Deets wrote:
Doesn't the scene in question depict the "rape" with cartoon sound effects and a cloud of smoke out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon?


You're thinking of the rape scene in Mischief Makers.

"shake shake shake! rape rape rape!"
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shrugtheironteacup
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:35 pm        Reply with quote

Adilegian my post was the perfect cap to this thread and you ruined it with your actual content. :(
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Toups
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:52 pm        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:
luvcraft wrote:
uh, I got the distinct impression that they just beat the crap out of her. I saw NO implications of rape.

I don't think there's any need to get defensive. As I wrote above, I saw implications of rape in the context of the scene, for the reasons given above.

From another vantage point, it's scene straight out of some trash hentai manga. Woman fallen prey to her wanton sexual lusts gets assaulted by an anonymous crowd of men and gang raped. And, in the end, "she gets what she deserved."

Other questions arise: why didn't humans gang up and beat Elvis down? Why not Belze? Why Shannon?

It's not like the human guys aren't musing about Shannon's sexual tastes. Talk to three of them in one of the prisons, and they say, in summary:

"You think Shannon likes big guys? Yeah, I bet she likes them big. What about Elvis? He's a hunka-hunka burnin' love."

We can agree to disagree on this, but these are the reasons why I've drawn my conclusion. I think it's well supported by the game.


It's less implied rape (since they actually do show what happens to her), and more something that figuratively resembles rape.

Though, really, Shannon is kind of a total bitch so it's hard to feel sympathy for her when her former underlings gang up on her and kill her.

I actually thought God Hand was really funny. Mostly due to how self aware and absurd it is. I doubt I'd find it amusing if I hadn't played any brawlers in the past. All it does is take the weird, overly masculine, strangely misogynistic tone of early 90's arcade beat-em-ups and take it to absurd extremes...
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Aaron



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:23 pm        Reply with quote

Like Gene I was sad when Elvis died. Shannon is just Paris Hilton with horns. It's hard to feel anything about her.
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v84j3gs2uc7ns4



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:59 pm        Reply with quote

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another god



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:32 pm        Reply with quote

Sex : Rape :: Dude punching woman : Dude stomping on a woman

Uh...

George Carlin made a joke about rape once. It was pretty good. It wasn't really about the content as much as it was about the reception of it. Pretty post modern, really. Some still thought it was tasteless. Some people thought it was hilarious. But there was a third group of people who chuckled about something they once thought was sacred.

He was just glad some people enjoyed it.
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SplashBeats
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:03 am        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:

I have my doubts about the way they chose to localize this, too. It seems that the localization staff decided to convey the original jokes via analogues in American pop culture, and I don't trust that this is a good way to localize games. The referential jokes work if you're plugged into the subculture that they stem from, like the names of the Chihuahuas. (Mikami's Head, Fission Mailed, etc.) Unless you're in a certain subculture, the jokes alienate and confuse more then they entertain.

Not to say that audience-specific humor is bad! I just don't think it succeeds in this case. Even when I got it (it took some research to understand what was up with the "Alexander the Great" birdsong), the bare reference to the meme wasn't enough. You got to get that shit to go somewhere.

Anyway, my beef with the localization ties to my beef with the localization for Super Paper Mario. In SPM, the Office Space character's affectations were grating and bland, leaving me to question why they didn't attempt an original comic voice. I have the same questions for God Hand.



all the voice overs are the same in the japanese version. like killer7, the voices were originally recorded in english and subtitled for japan. there's no localization in this humor dude.

also i think the gamer specific humor works because GOD HAND is very much a gamers' game. there's no way my mother would ever play this game, and it isn't because of the humor. it's because it's a very difficult complex brawler, that has "skill in videogames" as a prerequisite.

it's not like it's wii sports or something.
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Mr Mustache
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:06 am        Reply with quote

joe wrote:
it's not like it's wii sports or something.


Prick.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:34 pm        Reply with quote

Mr Mustache wrote:
joe wrote:
it's not like it's wii sports or something.


Prick.


thanks for contributing to this thread
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Adilegian
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:44 pm        Reply with quote

And we're back!

Mister Toups wrote:
It's less implied rape (since they actually do show what happens to her), and more something that figuratively resembles rape.

I was under the impression that they closed out the scene with Shannon left alive at the hands of the freed slaves. And you've hit upon a point that might be the source of some miscommunication: "figuratively resembles" is what I mean by "implies." I'm making less a declaration of specific events, and I'm more indicating the spirit of the scene. Like I've written above, I enjoyed some parts of that spirit, and I didn't enjoy others. This was one of them I didn't enjoy.

Mister Toups wrote:
I actually thought God Hand was really funny. Mostly due to how self aware and absurd it is. I doubt I'd find it amusing if I hadn't played any brawlers in the past. All it does is take the weird, overly masculine, strangely misogynistic tone of early 90's arcade beat-em-ups and take it to absurd extremes...

You've also hit upon a point of ambiguity that I'm uncertain about. There's this weird, thin line between "making pastiche of tropes" and "reveling in those same tropes," especially in Mikami's videogames.

killer7 is another example of what I mean. People have interpreted the item fetch-quest aspects of killer7 as parodying Resident Evil's gradually cheapened trick of using those fetch-quests to extend gameplay--or, in some instances, to create requisite gameplay. The ambiguity for me lies in the fact that Mikami had some creative input on killer7, and he's more-or-less abused that same gameplay design in his most famous series. Sure, Mikami could be parodying his own redundancies, but what has he done other than that redundant fetch-questing to show that he hasn't boiled his one trick down to the most abstract form possible?

That last question isn't rhetorical, exactly. I'm trying to articulate exactly why the misogyny in God Hand isn't clearly "enlightened misongyny" to me. If God Hand had some kind of self-conscious recognition of the misogyny--or if it had a woman in the game who wasn't portayed as complete trash or a sex object--the self-awareness would make the abuse more clearly absurd. If I missed the tip-off in the game, though, the fault's mine. The whole motif still looks too much like adolescent jawslacking at the fact that girls exist for me to see that the game's trying to rise above the misogyny.

the vinculum gate wrote:
all the voice overs are the same in the japanese version. like killer7, the voices were originally recorded in english and subtitled for japan. there's no localization in this humor dude.

I'm not referring so much to the spoken language as I am the text. (How many Japanese otaku have adopted Clerks into their subculture to the point that "37 in a Row" would be an intelligible reference?)

the vinculum gate wrote:
also i think the gamer specific humor works because GOD HAND is very much a gamers' game. there's no way my mother would ever play this game, and it isn't because of the humor. it's because it's a very difficult complex brawler, that has "skill in videogames" as a prerequisite.

I think the mistake is the assumption that "gamer specific references" equates to the sense of humor that all gamers have. Abusive humor and referential humor rank very low on my personal sense of what's funny, so the game's sense of humor doesn't appeal to me very much. (This is a reason why I regard George Carlin as tiresome rather than genius.) It's pretty much 4chan.

Lest I be regarded as implying otherwise, I don't judge people according to whether or not we share the same tastes. Media criticism's a different boat to float, though, which is why I don't feel as though anyone should be upset if I write that I think its comedy is dumb and unoriginal.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:37 pm        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:
I don't think rape is funny


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