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God Hand Redemption
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Ratoslov



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:48 pm        Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
Yeah, I know I HATE it when games don't all play exactly the same.


Hey, all I know is, one second I'm playing a game about smacking shit around with my crazy chain-swords and just about to build up enough steam doing that to fall into a groove, and next I have to switch gears and hammer buttons or rotate shit or whatnot. It isn't the game playing differently, it's an entirely different game that feels the need to intrude on me every thirty seconds.
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SuperWes



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:57 pm        Reply with quote

Ratoslov wrote:
next I have to switch gears and hammer buttons or rotate shit or whatnot.


I know! Resident Evil 4, Shenmue, and Riviera were all horrible!

-Wes
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Felix
unofficial repository


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: vancouver

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:27 pm        Reply with quote

riviera was horrible.
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Moogs



Joined: 06 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:34 pm        Reply with quote

Shenmue wasn't all that great, either.
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Lurky
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:28 pm        Reply with quote

Resident Evil 4 was horrible too, apart from mercenaries.

Last edited by Lurky on Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ratoslov



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:40 pm        Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
I know! Resident Evil 4, Shenmue, and Riviera were all horrible!


RE4's generally less obnoxious about it. Most of it's active-time stuff happens during cutscenes, and when it doesn't they get the damn thing over quickly.

Shenmue and Riviera were horrible, yes, I agree.
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Toups
tyranically banal


Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Location: Ebon Keep

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:45 pm        Reply with quote

Various Select Button Forum Members wrote:
hating on well-liked games


The spirit of IC lives on!!
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tacotaskforce



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Logical, Practical

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:53 pm        Reply with quote

Well QTEs were the worst part of Shenmue. They mesh neither with the primary purpose of Shenmue (walking around and looking at things) nor with its secondary purpose (punching people). They really don't have a purpose at all.

RE4, on the other hand, uses button mashing and QTEs very well. The button mashing links the desperation of the player's inputs to the desperation of the avatar's actions. QTEs fixed an old RE franchise problem of allowing the player to relax during a cutscene thereby breaking the momentum of the game.
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SuperWes



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:54 pm        Reply with quote

Ratoslov wrote:
RE4's generally less obnoxious about it. Most of it's active-time stuff happens during cutscenes

You're right! It would have been much more effective if they had used fully non-interactive cutscenes instead of trying to keep it within the world of the game! Someone tell Sony that cutscenes are the wave of the future!

I'm glad people are finally admitting that Shenmue sucks. Unfortunately, this isn't the place to do that since the QTEs just might be the best part of the game.

-Wes
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Ratoslov



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:29 pm        Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
Ratoslov wrote:
RE4's generally less obnoxious about it. Most of it's active-time stuff happens during cutscenes

You're right! It would have been much more effective if they had used fully non-interactive cutscenes instead of trying to keep it within the world of the game! Someone tell Sony that cutscenes are the wave of the future!


Maybe they could remove cutscenes entirely and just let me play the damn game.
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:32 pm        Reply with quote

Yeah, part of the problem of the God of War executions is that you have to do them all the time, and yeah, they might as well be cutscenes. You input some buttons, but the exact same thing happens every time, so it isn't like you are really doing much except deciding whether it shows you failing or succeeding.
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Lurky
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:34 pm        Reply with quote

Ratoslov wrote:
SuperWes wrote:
Ratoslov wrote:
RE4's generally less obnoxious about it. Most of it's active-time stuff happens during cutscenes

You're right! It would have been much more effective if they had used fully non-interactive cutscenes instead of trying to keep it within the world of the game! Someone tell Sony that cutscenes are the wave of the future!


Maybe they could remove cutscenes entirely and just let me play the damn game.


mercenaries.
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tacotaskforce



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Logical, Practical

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:36 pm        Reply with quote

Lurky wrote:
Ratoslov wrote:
SuperWes wrote:
Ratoslov wrote:
RE4's generally less obnoxious about it. Most of it's active-time stuff happens during cutscenes

You're right! It would have been much more effective if they had used fully non-interactive cutscenes instead of trying to keep it within the world of the game! Someone tell Sony that cutscenes are the wave of the future!


Maybe they could remove cutscenes entirely and just let me play the damn game.


mercenaries.


guys mercenaries is a good game
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Lurky
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:44 pm        Reply with quote

hell yes.
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:46 pm        Reply with quote

now are we talking about RE4 mercenaris or GTA in Korea Neo War Mercenaries?

RE4 Mercenaries was fucking amazing. Epic even at times. I mean, fuck, that dude on waterworld that got named double donger...there have been epic battles with that son of a bitch.

the gta one seemed fun for the 15 minutes i got to play it.
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Lurky
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:50 pm        Reply with quote

I'm talking about RE4 Mercenaries.
That game was a lot of fun.
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luvcraft
buy my game buy my game me me me


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Cobrastan

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:02 pm        Reply with quote

is Mercenaries on both versions of RE4?
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Moogs



Joined: 06 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:27 pm        Reply with quote

Mister Toups wrote:
Various Select Button Forum Members wrote:
hating on well-liked games


The spirit of IC lives on!!


Oh, come on! Who the hell likes Shenmue?!

Honestly!
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Lurky
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:32 pm        Reply with quote

luvcraft wrote:
is Mercenaries on both versions of RE4?


Yes.
I played the gamecube version, but the ps2 version has it as well.
The ps2 version may not have as many zombies, so if that's the version you have you'll want to compare your score to other ps2 version scores.
http://sidious.jp/bio/ranking/bioran_t.html


Last edited by Lurky on Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:32 pm        Reply with quote

luvcraft wrote:
is Mercenaries on both versions of RE4?

I would hope so, or else being a ps2 owner sucks.
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Toto



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:44 pm        Reply with quote

Mercenaries is the perfect Resident Evil.
If they could make the whole game like that, with occasional brief respite from the zombie hoard, and maybe just a few indoor sequences, it would be the best game ever.
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Baines
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:21 am        Reply with quote

Mercenaries was okay, but needs to go a ways further before it could justify being its own game.

It certainly isn't what I'd want main Resident Evil to become. The pace doesn't sustain itself for more than short bursts.

As well, it doesn't take a horribly long time before you can outlast what Mercenaries mode throws at you. More enemies in general at once isn't a solution, which mostly leaves cheaper enemies or more of the stronger enemies at once. (Such as the Garradors in the castle, or being chased by two Dr. Salvador X on water world.)

Such mechanics would probably be better spent on something like a GTA/RE crossbreed. Not Dead Rising, but bearing some simularities. (Unless you just wanted something like PN03. Which is what Mercenaries is based upon to begin with.)
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option



Joined: 06 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:54 am        Reply with quote

Moogs wrote:
Mister Toups wrote:
Various Select Button Forum Members wrote:
hating on well-liked games


The spirit of IC lives on!!


Oh, come on! Who the hell likes Shenmue?!

Honestly!


I have a friend who claims its one of the best games every created.

Every time I ask him why exactly, he kinda dances around the subject while alluding to the idea that he liked the game world... but never really saying it.
Even he still makes jokes about finding sailors though.
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:44 pm        Reply with quote

Baines wrote:
(Unless you just wanted something like DINO CRISIS 2. Which is what Mercenaries is based upon to begin with.)


Fixed.
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SplashBeats
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:31 pm        Reply with quote

option wrote:
Moogs wrote:
Mister Toups wrote:
Various Select Button Forum Members wrote:
hating on well-liked games


The spirit of IC lives on!!


Oh, come on! Who the hell likes Shenmue?!

Honestly!


I have a friend who claims its one of the best games every created.

Every time I ask him why exactly, he kinda dances around the subject while alluding to the idea that he liked the game world... but never really saying it.
Even he still makes jokes about finding sailors though.


Rud13?
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Baines
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:45 pm        Reply with quote

boojiboy7 wrote:
Baines wrote:
(Unless you just wanted something like DINO CRISIS 2. Which is what Mercenaries is based upon to begin with.)


Fixed.


Broken, you mean.

Mercenaries uses a similar scoring system, has a similar feel (despite the differences of the two games), and even uses music from PN03.
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:47 pm        Reply with quote

and what i'm saying is that same scoring system and a much more similar feel to Dino Crisis 2. Now sure, the music may be recycled from PN03, but i find a much earlier and much closer source for mercenaries in DC2.
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Mikey



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Location: endless backlog

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:17 pm        Reply with quote

Mister Toups wrote:
Various Select Button Forum Members wrote:
hating on well-liked games


The spirit of IC lives on!!


:(
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luvcraft
buy my game buy my game me me me


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Cobrastan

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:39 pm        Reply with quote

not to add more fuel to the fire, but I'm currently about 2/3 of the way through God Hand, and I have to say that I think Ninja Gaiden has a deeper combat system, although the two are very similar in their brutality. I will say more about this when I finish the game.

Also, I absolutely HAVE to say that the block-pushing and lever-flipping in God of War felt a LOT more natural than the block-pushing and lever-flipping in God Hand do.

As it stands right now, I'm glad I didn't pay more than $30 for God Hand, and I'm waffling on whether or not even that was too much.
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:56 pm        Reply with quote

so, in other words, you suck.

I'm just joking, honestly.
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Shapermc
crawling in his skin


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Chicago via St. Louis

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:35 pm        Reply with quote

You guys are making me want to finish RE4. I never thought that would happen.
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Toups
tyranically banal


Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Location: Ebon Keep

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:16 pm        Reply with quote

Moogs wrote:
Mister Toups wrote:
Various Select Button Forum Members wrote:
hating on well-liked games


The spirit of IC lives on!!


Oh, come on! Who the hell likes Shenmue?!

Honestly!


Lots of people here do!

Me for one!
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luvcraft
buy my game buy my game me me me


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Cobrastan

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:10 pm        Reply with quote

boojiboy7 wrote:
in ancient Rome, there was a poem, about a dog, who had two bones


I will admit that it's also entirely possible that I'm just totally failing to understand the combo system; I have my square button combo setup to use the attacks that are both fast and strong (and it seems like the attacks that are either fast and weak or slow and strong are pretty much worthless, which always makes "deck building" significantly less interesting), I have down+[] set to a guard break, triangle is a charge punch of some sort and down+triangle is handplant kick (which I rarely use, mostly because I forget it's there), X is sweep and down+X is a launch attack.

As far as I can tell that's the best setup, and with it I'm OK at the game and have to continue about twice each level on average. I get the feeling that there's a better way to set things up, but I also get the feeling that unless you're one of the programmers or have spent a LOT of time disecting each and every move then it's almost impossible to figure out that "better way", which kind of irks me more than if it wasn't there to begin with.


Last edited by luvcraft on Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dmauro



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Broker

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:23 pm        Reply with quote

luvcraft wrote:
but I also get the feeling that unless you're one of the programmers or have spent a LOT of time disecting each and every move then it's almost impossible to figure out that "better way", which kind of irks me more than if it wasn't there to begin with.

This is the problem I have with the game, although I'm mostly able to ignore it enough to assume my setup is at least good enough.
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SplashBeats
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:29 pm        Reply with quote

There is no magical setup that will make the game easy. Man up, etc etc.
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:52 pm        Reply with quote

thank you for quoting freedom of choice, luvcraft. we are becoming cooler with each other, bro.
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Predator Goose



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Location: Oversensitive Pedantic Ninny

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:54 pm        Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
Ratoslov wrote:
next I have to switch gears and hammer buttons or rotate shit or whatnot.


I know! Resident Evil 4, Shenmue, and Riviera were all horrible!

-Wes


Ok, I've only really played enough Shenmue to know that I did indeed hate it. I don't remember it very well though, much less the QTEs of it, and I've certainly never played Riviera. So I'm not really qualified to compare them to God of War.

I have played RE4 though, so let me clarify why I love the QTEs of RE4 and loathe them in God of War.

First of all, by and large, the QTEs of Resident Evil were one-off events, meaning that they only happened once or in a particular fight. Like hopping on the Gigantes, or dodging rocks. Hence I didn't get bored of them as much as I did in God of War. So I'll just assume you were speaking of the other QTEs, the ones not usually tied to a particular fight or point in the story. Like jumping out of low windows or suplexing a dude.

The reason that these remained fresh is three-fold. Firstly because they were quick. All I had to do in order to suplex a dude is walk up to him and hit A (I think it was A) to get a satisfying cutscene of Leon smashing a guys head. Secondly they were useful, but never necessary. A suplex killed a guy using less ammo, and a kick cleared out some space in front of you to give you some breathing room. Thirdly the attack QTEs were an addition to your arsenal, something to help you out in a pinch or if you just wanted to show off. They didn't feel like the point of battles, they weren't often required, and I actually rarely did them.

Now, in God of War it was as much of a pain in the ass to use them as it was to not use them. For many of the little enemies like the tiny minotaurs you got bonuses for killing them that way, like invincibility while doing it and health afterward if you did it successfully. Then there were the enemies that were a pain in the ass to finish off if you didn't use it, like the Sirens. But because of the time it took to actually do the moves and the actions required being such a change from the game I felt displaced from the action. It's a little boring hammering on a button for half a minute while there are 15 dudes standing around waiting to get their asses kicked.

Of course, you didn't have to do those actions. You could skip on the extra health and magic and just view it as added difficulty. But the game wasn't about to let it end there. You can't just decide you'll never finish an enemy off that way because nearly every boss requires you to complete one of these events in order to kill it. It isn't like you can kill a boss on your own and use the QTEs to help you out, or that the QTEs are a means for something else like changing the arena. Rather it feels like the game rips the control from the player and says "You have to kill it this way."

In summation it is because I find the QTEs in God of War boring, ubiquitous, required, and disturbing (I didn't want to kill the Sirens like that, that was just sick) that it pissed me off every time I had to do one. Which was all the frickin' time.
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RecessRapist
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:07 pm        Reply with quote

About the combo setup in Godhand, I thought that the triangle and x button moves were half-useless. I almost only used my square button combo. Well that was after about level 4 when my friend came over and set up some super-effective(not godly though) combo.

The best thing I can recommend is putting a quick guard-breaker on the second or third move slot(Helped me a LOT against DH), adding an attack that makes people dizzy on the second-to-last slot and putting a launching kick on the last.

And yeah, before that all I did was string strong moves together. I sucked hard :/

EDIT: Alright I checked try High side kick --> Spinning sobat --> Elbow vortex --> Overhead blow --> Stomping fist --> High cross kick.

Works wonders against human-sized enemies and fatasses. Yes, even those strong dudes that keeps mentionning Alexander the great.
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SuperWes



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:18 pm        Reply with quote

Predator Goose wrote:
You can't just decide you'll never finish an enemy off that way because nearly every boss requires you to complete one of these events in order to kill it.


You mean both of them? Yeah, that was a bummer.

-Wes
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luvcraft
buy my game buy my game me me me


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Cobrastan

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:19 pm        Reply with quote

Predator Goose wrote:
In summation it is because I find the QTEs in God of War boring, ubiquitous, required, and disturbing (I didn't want to kill the Sirens like that, that was just sick) that it pissed me off every time I had to do one. Which was all the frickin' time.


Ah, I can dig it. Thanks for explaining it; that makes a lot of sense.

Although I have trouble reconciling your disgust at ripping the wings off harpies with your having the most upsetting avatar on the forums. :)X
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Predator Goose



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Location: Oversensitive Pedantic Ninny

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:32 pm        Reply with quote

It wasn't killing the Harpies I couldn't stomach it was killing the Sirens. The QTE where you hugged them close and then broke their backs. It just felt so creepy and misogynistic.

SuperWes wrote:
Predator Goose wrote:
You can't just decide you'll never finish an enemy off that way because nearly every boss requires you to complete one of these events in order to kill it.


You mean both of them? Yeah, that was a bummer.

-Wes


Yeah, you got me there. It's been awhile so I forgot that you didn't have to kill all the bosses that way, only the Hydra and the big Minotaur (and you could argue that the Minotaur wasn't the same type of mini-game as that mini-game felt pretty cohesive with the actual fight). I also forgot how few actual bosses there were.
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