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God Hand Redemption

 
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Baines
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:10 am        Reply with quote

God Hand didn't have the greatest print run, but I haven't had much issue running across it after release. It might not have had a great print run, with stores not ordering heavily, but it didn't exactly sell through that well either.


The game does get repetative though. There are less new enemy types than I expected based on the first few stages. Combat arguably starts to break down a bit near the end of the game.

And an annoyance is that while New Game+ makes nearly everything available at the shop from the start, it doesn't carry over either money or what you have bought. So you either have to cheat or spend hours or days building up cash in the casino to take advantage of what is available at the shop. This really kills the idea of going back to a beaten game just to have some beatdown fun.

As for keeping the Kick Me sign, I'd think the later boss fights would start to drag severely. Later bosses have really high HP to counter the really high damage Roulettes you get, and how often you can activate your God Hand as well. (Since a longer bar means you can get more activations in a fight.) The final boss takes what? At least five Double Shaolins? Which presumably does more damage than the regular Shaolin, which itself does I think 1500. How long would it take to bludgeon it to death with just regular moves?
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Baines
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:08 pm        Reply with quote

Intentionally Wrong wrote:
The chihuahua races qualify as a party game in our apartment. We haven't quite gotten to the point of actually betting cash on 'em, but it's only a matter of time.


I spent too much time trying to figure out a solution to the Chihuahua races.

On the surface, the odds seem to be the biggest factor. And the odds seem somewhat random.

Except there was one dog that always came in last, despite having odds in the 3 to 6 area. (Actually, I think I saw him place 5th once, in around 30+ races that he was in.) There was another that almost always came in last if that first dog wasn't present. One dog seemed to fall a lot more often than others, which made him a wild card that could either win or lose.

Odds generally seemed to affect how fast they left the gate, but not always how fast they ran. Someone with horrible odds might leave the gate a second late, but take off immediately.

Then there was the whole half-point thing, where some would get a second wind and rocket to the finish and others would just slowly continue.

It seemed like with enough research, you could predict a race from the line-up. Except it only seemed to work with some dogs. I could mark some of the guys that weren't going to win, but I couldn't judge who was. Amaterasu gave me real issues, as her performance wasn't even consistent across similar races (similar odds against similar opponents). Plus falling was a real problem, as you often don't have all the dogs onscreen, so you don't know if the placings are based on pure performance or someone tripping, which threw off trying to compare dogs.
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Baines
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:06 am    Post subject: Re: God Hand Redemption    Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
I'm not sure what US sales were, but I know it was totally sold out upon launch at most of the local GameStops in St. Louis.


How many did those GameStops order though? One or two copies per store?

Heck, were they really sold out? Around here, some of the stores don't even put niche games on the shelves until a week or more after release. (Instead, the "new release" section is devoted to expected major games, and things that were released anywhere from two weeks to two months prior.)

boojiboy7 wrote:
Godhand centers on strategic set up of combos based on approximately 100 available moves.


Now, be completely honest. Some of those moves are duplicates, varying only in damage and cost. God Hand does still have a pretty good number of moves though.
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Baines
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:21 am        Reply with quote

Mercenaries was okay, but needs to go a ways further before it could justify being its own game.

It certainly isn't what I'd want main Resident Evil to become. The pace doesn't sustain itself for more than short bursts.

As well, it doesn't take a horribly long time before you can outlast what Mercenaries mode throws at you. More enemies in general at once isn't a solution, which mostly leaves cheaper enemies or more of the stronger enemies at once. (Such as the Garradors in the castle, or being chased by two Dr. Salvador X on water world.)

Such mechanics would probably be better spent on something like a GTA/RE crossbreed. Not Dead Rising, but bearing some simularities. (Unless you just wanted something like PN03. Which is what Mercenaries is based upon to begin with.)
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Baines
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:45 pm        Reply with quote

boojiboy7 wrote:
Baines wrote:
(Unless you just wanted something like DINO CRISIS 2. Which is what Mercenaries is based upon to begin with.)


Fixed.


Broken, you mean.

Mercenaries uses a similar scoring system, has a similar feel (despite the differences of the two games), and even uses music from PN03.
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Baines
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:58 am    Post subject: God Hand moves    Reply with quote

Once you learn how to dodge, you can do okay with most move sets. (Warning: A few moves are restrictive on being able to cancel into a dodge. Some are still good. Others can be a bit too much of a gamble.)

Different people find different things they like. For most enemies, you can get away with a lot. Even if your moveset is weak against something, you can cover with God Hand activations, Roulettes, and weapons.

For example, if something blocks a lot: You can use a guard break. You can keep pressuring in the hope that they stop blocking and get caught (or at least keep him pinned while you catch his allies in the same flurry). You can stop to bait something you can counter, either with a dodge or with an attack that ducks high attacks. You can activate the God Hand. You can use a Roulette (if you are in a position to connect one before the opponent counters.) You can run and chuck an object at them.

You get people with different strategies. If you look at movesets of different players, you'll find different combinations that all worked. Heck, some people rearranged their movesets for different situations. Some swear by guard breaks, and others swear at them. While everyone agrees on juggles being good, it is extremely easy to make juggle combos (and to keep them going with skillful cancelling between your Square combo and other attacks.)
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Baines
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:46 pm        Reply with quote

How would you address the lack of need to customize though?

If you make enemies vary so much in attack and defense styles that you need to alter your moveset when you reach them, you introduce the hassle of constantly having to rewrite your moveset. That would in turn kill the near pure action pacing of the game.

You could let the player create two or three style sets that they can quickly switch between. That avoids the problem of constantly rewriting a single move set. But to encourage use, you'd still need an enemy variety that pretty much required a player have a couple of different styles. As well, where would you put a quick switch on the controls? If you have to go to the menu, you are back to interrupting the pacing.

A key thing to remember was also one of the goals of the game design, to make a fun 3D version of the old (often mindless) 2D side-scrolling beat-em-ups. Add too many complications and you start to drift away from that goal into something else.
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Baines
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:29 pm        Reply with quote

dmauro wrote:
I think it would be cool if the game would throw me a bone and give me hidden items that are selectable presets for the combos with a quick description of that preset's strengths and weaknesses. I know, man up and such, but it would have been cool.


Then just upgrade the original moveset. Replace the original moves with the better versions of the same (like Straight 1 with Straight 2).

For the non-square buttons, get yourself what you think is the best of each type. The best charge for you (not that you'll be fully charging much), the best launcher (you probably want both speed and something that can hit multiple people as a crowd clearer), etc. A guard breaker and/or a multi-hit are other good options. (There are two kinds of multi-punch moves. One works in a combo, while the other pushes back the enemy. That difference matters if you want to use that button to cancel into and out of your square button combo.) And you want a juggle somewhere.

When you break the moves down to their types, and try to pick your "best" of each type, it becomes a lot easier to fill the non-square buttons.

For square, that depends. The original combo is made for combo-ability. It uses moves that start and recover fast enough that the target can't do much. You might want to continue that trend, but then you'll have weak attacks. Or you might want stronger moves that gives the enemy a better chance to block.

It also depends on whether you want to launch or juggle. If you want to rely on juggle combos, you'll want fast moves on the square button. Slower moves will let the opponent drop out of the juggle. Depending on what you use, you might want a juggle inside your combo as well as outside. If you want a launcher, you'll want different. Or maybe you want all basic on the square, with all the specialties on separate buttons so you can cancel at will and need.

And don't forget there is a training dummy in the area in the town. Try ideas there. (As I recall, you can practice with moves that you haven't yet bought there as well.) It isn't perfect, because there is only one dummy. But it is better than nothing.
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Baines
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:34 pm        Reply with quote

luvcraft wrote:
Also while playing God Hand I constantly keep finding myself wanting to either A: throw enemies at other enemies,


Skillful use of launchers.

Some situational circle attacks can apply as well as some Roulettes.

luvcraft wrote:
B: counter,


Dodge and counter-attack.

Moves that duck high probably count as well. And just good timing.

luvcraft wrote:
or C: play co-op, none of which are available.


Sounds fun, but I don't know how well that it would work other than LAN or online.
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Baines
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:18 am        Reply with quote

boojiboy7 wrote:
100Proof wrote:
Sounds more like a fleshed-out sequel to Sega Soccer Slam... quite possibly my favorite "sports" game of all time.


Sega Soccer Slam is the most fun 3 player game I have ever played. And really racist, against everyone.


Too bad Sega Soccer Slam felt like a beta test of a real game.

God Hand feels a little incomplete at times, but overall it felt fine to me. If anything, it would have felt more "complete" if it had been three or four entire areas shorter, but I honestly preferred having that extra play time.
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Baines
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:12 am        Reply with quote

The Gamecube version pretty much felt like a concept test of a real game, that Sega would only bother to finish for another console if it proved successful.

For example, it was missing so many "obvious" things, like any form of team edit.

The success rate of the special shots was flat out broken. It only took a couple of games to notice that the real success rate was in no way related to what the developers had presumably planned. From what I recall, this was even more noticeable in that the game gave "fake" stats for simulated CPU vs CPU matches? The stats didn't even come close to what the CPU did in a real match, much less being proportional to a human player.

Etc...

I wasn't the only one with such an opinion. It seemed a pretty common online sentiment amongst people that *did* like the game.
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Baines
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:25 pm        Reply with quote

I know about knocking the padding off the goalie. And it takes less than an hour of play to learn how to completely abuse the CPU.

Neither of those change that the super shots are no where near what the development team was aiming for, described as, or even presented in stats. And it only takes a couple of games to notice.

As for any form of team edit, the game kind of needed it. Overall, it is about as barebones as a barebones Sega arcade game conversion (like 18-Wheeler.) Sega can do better than that. Heck, they did much better with Super Monkey Ball.

They put a nod towards editing, but didn't do anything with it.

What do you get for editing? You only buy equipment for your team. You don't have to think or anything though, because all the equipment can be worn simultaneously. You're basically just picking what stat you want to level up first, knowing that all will be leveled by the end.

As I said though, it isn't just the above, but rather an accumulation of various things. Though being completely off on the shots is bad, when it was so readily apparant. (At the time, I suspected the power shots were rebalanced without anyone bothering to retest them. Last minute tweak or just thinking they had it right or something.)
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Baines
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:36 am        Reply with quote

Megaman might not be the best example.

Yes, each boss had a weakness against a particular weapon, but you could also beat any of them with the regular gun. Some were easier to beat that way than others, but the game didn't force a particular choice. (Some of the later games vary in different ways in this regard.)

Metal Blade is a special case admittedly, because it was a broken design. It was effective the regular gun with the addition of 8-way fire. At three shots per sliver of gauge, you really could replace the regular gun. Capcom never again made another weapon that was as all-around good as the Metal Blade.

Also, from what I recall the Metal Blade isn't quite as all-powerful if you play on hard mode. Wasn't US "hard mode" the only mode in the Japanese game, with US "normal" an easier mode added that mostly (only?) changed the damage/health levels? And the more favorable damage is what cemented Metal Blade's status.
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Baines
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:05 am        Reply with quote

Predator Goose wrote:
While I don't disagree with anything you said here, I think my point still applies. That being that we're given a game and it's up to us how we have fun with it.


Agreeable, though I think my point still applies as well.

I wasn't trying to say the shot balance broke Sega Soccer Slam, but only to use it as an example of why I said the game seemed like a beta test, or even a disposable trial run of a concept.

Edit: Metal Blade was my favorite weapon in Megaman 2.
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Baines
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:51 pm        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:
Really, the rape thing wasn't my main priority. It's simply gotten blown out of proportion.


Only because it wasn't there.
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