[Marshmallow]

LOL I see what you did there!

So I finished the game earlier today. Bloody brilliant. One of the best, if not the best, games I played this year.

[Toups]

[Marshmallow]

I think the problem you had with the game is that you suck at it, toups.

[secret character]

I think, having heard Toups' complaints about it, it makes sense that they wouldn't really bother you, Cycle (because you like Marathon).

[iwontusemyname]

i really loved the demo.


which, you know, can be a killer. but i'm still at a reasonable frothing level for this game. maybe if i can find a copy for $30 or less?
_________________

-c.

[Toups]

[Marshmallow]

Yes, really. Yes. That and I think you may have eased into the game better if you started from... the start. I could see some bits could be annoying if you couldn't find out where to go, but really I pretty much always figured it out instantly. Maybe I'm just better at observing the environment? They could have directed the player a bit better in those bits, I suppose, but then it would take out some of the fun... maybe they could have made things more obvious in easy mode.

[secret character]

[Marshmallow]

Ah, right, that's true. Marathon 2 & Infinity need a good deal of environment observation if you don't want to spend five hours lost in a level. Kinda like Riven, too. Except in Riven no one is shooting at you.

[Toups]

[Toups]

[CubaLibre]

[Marshmallow]

That was Infinity, Cuba!

The rooftops were the best bits, but I liked the stuff inside as well. This is where it actually becomes a bit like Portal; you have a clear place to go, but you have to figure out how to get there by observing your surroundings and figuring out how to use them (and your skills) to your advantage. I enjoyed the puzzleness of these sections.

I agree it's a shame they had to throw in bits where you have to fight, but I honestly don't remember that many. I actually did fight a fair bit so maybe I didn't notice it as much. I also had fun with the combat, by the end of it I was really good and just kicked the crap out of everyone, including those NINJA COP dudes or whatever. It was also satisfying breaking a guys neck after grabbing his gun, then turning around and mowing down the other dudes.

I also enjoyed the story! It was simple, but it was interesting and not retarded which is a nice change from almost every other game. The characters also had personalities and were believable and stuff so that was also cool! Also loved the cutscene style. I wish they did some more world building via the actual gameplay though.

I don't know dude, it was all pretty smooth sailing for me. It's far from perfect and I hope they learn from the various mistakes for the sequel, but I sincerely had a better time with this game than with any other I played this year.

[Toups]

I just felt that the game was mostly untapped potential, and lots of annoying, frustrating parts.

When it was good, it was great. But the further I got, the less often it was good.

I did not find the game to be overly challenging, though.
_________________

[Rya.Reisender]

Does this game have frequent check points? Like when you die you just have to redo the last few seconds?

[glossolalia]

it depends. usually you have to redo about the last half minute or so, assuming you now know where you're going.

[Marshmallow]

Well I'll make a post about why I love it later on, but here are the things I didn't like/think could be improved.

VALVES AND BUTTONS: This was the worst mistake the game made. Don't make the player stop running just to turn a valve to stop a gas leak or some crap. It just destroys the flow and completely pointless.

THE DIRECTION BUTTON: This was actually rather convenient, except when it doesn't work. Like, I'd keep hitting the button and the damn thing wouldn't work. This seemed to happen lots when I just had to hit the button, but the buttons are actually pretty easy to miss. It should have always worked.

Ah fuck, I'm too tired to do the rest and I'll probably forget them tomorrow. Something about doing better world building in-game and using gameplay to carry the story more.

My friend has been playing the game (and is somehow much better than me) and it's really interesting seeing someone else play the game, seeing all the different routes they find. For example, they found a way to pretty much completely avoid the gunfire when approaching the chick on the boat deck, when I just ran and took cover against different items as I charged ahead. That's a pretty big example actually, the more interesting ones are the little shortcuts they find.

[another god]

[Toups]

My roommate already returned it, so that won't happen.

I think I would've enjoyed the game more with no runner vision, but I don't think that would've fixed the underlying level design problems.
_________________

[another god]

What do you mean underlying level design problems?
_________________
interdimensional

[boogalooper]

[Marshmallow]

I think a possible solution is to add more to the difficulty levels. Don't just make combat easier, also make cues more obvious to the player. Or have two sliders for both!!!

[another god]

Would you want the difficulty slider affect what the gameworld is like? I feel as though a lot of people are just hard headed. They saw guns and weapon stealing, so they decided to fight instead of find creative ways around them.
_________________
interdimensional

[Marshmallow]

I agree, but I just meant making runner vision a little more prominent in an easier difficulty.

Did anyone else get a Thief vibe from this game? I think Thief was actually a big inspiration (especially the third game which was big on body awareness) with the emphasis on non-combat, a set of basic skills the player has through the whole game, lots of environment observation, lots of work put into creating a realised, believable world. Even the cutscenes seem inspired but Thief.

I think world building could have been done better though. I mean, they have the news bullitens in the elevators, but they're basically the same through the whole game, and much more could have been done to reveal the world to the player. But they did a great job of making a consistent, believable world. Fantastic job. And the fact that they filled it with consistent, believable characters is even more impressive.

I also fucking love the music in this game.

Oh, another thing... when a certain character gets killed, it would have been awesome if the next level was just Faith running and jumping across rooftops making MORE AGGRESIVE sounds, in a way of venting her anger and showing how rooftops calms her. So, yeah, I wish more was done in the gameplay to strengthen the plot and characters. Most of it was done in the cutscenes.

[Marshmallow]

[another god]

I do agree that there's a huge disconnect between the gameplay and the story, and that is a huge weakness. I think the developers should've admitted to how little they knew about narrative, and just have forgone a story altogether.
_________________
interdimensional

[Marshmallow]

I don't know about that, I actually quite enjoyed the story and think it went well with the gameplay. It just didn't intertwine with the gameplay.

[Marshmallow]

So I just replayed the last chapter as a little experiment! Turns out it's not all gun blazing as toups said. Not only did I finish it without firing a single gun, I also did it without assaulting a single enemy. It actually wasn't that hard! The only part that gave me trouble was the bit with the servers. Destroying them wasn't hard; the idiots will blow them up themselves when trying to shoot you, or you can just kick them to death yourself. The trouble was one dude guarding the top of the stairs. Eventually I found a way around him though (though I only barely survived), and I was free to finish the game.

On another note, they should have gave you some claptrap about the guns shooting tranqbullets or something, it would have made it more believable.

Now I plan to work backwards and see if I can pull this off in the other chapters.

[Rya.Reisender]

So you can actually clear the game without fighting?

[Marshmallow]

Chapter 8: completed without assault

Chapter 7: There is one room with a DUMBASS valve that you have to turn to open a door. If you don't killl the people in the room, you can't open it and survive at the same time. LAME.

Current body count (not counting bosses and scripted events): 4

Chapter 6: completed without assault. Was tricky at times, though.

[Cossix]

[another god]

Disarming badguys completely incapacitates them. It's not as graceful as the rest of Faith's repetoire, tho there are a few ways to do it better than slow mo - timed disarm. If you wall ride attack badguys, it'll spin them around so you can disarm from behind or just give you time to run away. Also, slide attacks are super quick and stun badguys so you can run past them.

There's even a trophy for going though the game without hitting a badguy with a gun, which I guess is the initial point of the game. Go trophies?
_________________
interdimensional

[jjsimpso]

[Marshmallow]

[Toups]

[SuperWes]

I agree with Toups. I saw the achievement for winning without shooting and I thought to myself, "I could play this game without enjoyment and get the achievement, or I could just shoot some dudes and have a good time." I chose the second one. I do think it was a good game, but to call it anything more than that is kind of stretching it.

So Toups, how was Dino Crisis 3?

-Wes
_________________

[another god]

Remember when everyone was used to SMB3 and then you went back and played the original Prince of Persia?

You guys are just used to FPS tropes, and when you played ME you just went back to your old bread & butter. Sucks for you, I guess.
_________________
interdimensional

[Marshmallow]

[Marshmallow]

[jjsimpso]

[Toto]

i've got this game now, and it's still pretty good i think. it's not intuitively obvious to me how to reach my destination all the time, but i don't a number of repetitions, and i enjoy games that force you to play them in the way they were meant to be played sometimes.