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Kojima likes GoW
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kiken



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Kojima likes GoW    Reply with quote

So he's interesting in deving for 360, Wii and PC...
Kojima wrote:

...MGS4 is actually for the PS3 only so far.


The last two words in that sentence would imply that there will most likely be a port to another console down the road. Given the size of the game (at least what he's hinting at), he'd most likely have to put it on HD-DVD on 360.
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Shapermc
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Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Kojima likes GoW    Reply with quote

kiken wrote:
he'd most likely have to put it on HD-DVD on 360.

Microsoft has said they will never allow people to put out games on HDdvds. Also, I hear things about blu-ray being so slow of a disc drive that game makers often have to dupilcate data all over the place on the disc or there would be giganitc load times. So, if enough data can be removed in duplication then there would be enough room for it on one or two dvds, which is very doable.
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dmauro



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:35 pm        Reply with quote

I think everyone's forgotten about multi-disc games.
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Waffen



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:51 pm        Reply with quote

"Kojima likes GoW"

well then, he's not as stupid as he looks.
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SuperWes



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:06 pm        Reply with quote

God or Gears?

-Wes
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Legal Step
honorary korean


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:10 pm        Reply with quote

Blue Dragon is 4 discs or something right?
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Waffen



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:13 pm        Reply with quote

Owning a PS3 equipped w/ Blu-Ray < shitting in your hat and wearing it
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Leau



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:50 pm        Reply with quote

Waffen wrote:
Owning a PS3 equipped w/ Blu-Ray < shitting in your hat and wearing it


Bravo! I think we're all looking foward to your college thesis
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:36 pm        Reply with quote

Legal Step wrote:
Blue Dragon is 4 discs or something right?

Yes it is actaully!
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Predator Goose



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:47 pm        Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
God or Gears?

-Wes


Gears. I don't know what he thinks of God.
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Pijaibros



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:59 pm        Reply with quote

I've been hearing that it's actually been selling pretty well in Japan. It reviewed well in Famitsu (yes, I know the story) for what that's worth. For an American shooter-type game, anyway. I am betting that is because only one store in Japan is willing to actually carry dirty gaijin software.

Anyone out there can somehow verify this?

Anyway, it's nice to hear something good about western software on that side of the world for once.
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tacotaskforce



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Kojima likes GoW    Reply with quote

kiken wrote:
The last two words in that sentence would imply that there will most likely be a port to another console down the road.


Kojima is just covering his ass in case Konami does something he doesn't expect or want them to do. He's said that the size of the Blu ray is necessary for what he wants to do with sound, and losing 80% of the available space to do a port to the 360 would require the game to be significantly downscaled. I don't think any director would want to do that to their work.
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:14 pm        Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
Legal Step wrote:
Blue Dragon is 4 discs or something right?

Yes it is actaully!


what! i hadn't heard that! that's ridiculous.

...port MGS4 away, though, i guess.

man, my hard drive is roughly the size of a single blu-ray disc. methinks i'm going to miss out on some PC ports until i feel like buying a new notebook in a couple of years, what with not having a next-gen console and all.
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Waffen



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:14 pm        Reply with quote

Leau wrote:
Waffen wrote:
Owning a PS3 equipped w/ Blu-Ray < shitting in your hat and wearing it


Bravo! I think we're all looking foward to your college thesis


shut it you weeabo bitch
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oneEIGHTkevin



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:58 pm        Reply with quote

I think the Blu-Ray drive speed thing is blown out of proportion. The fact that loading times haven't been bad at all on any games so far: RR7 and RR6 have no discernible difference in loading times and Resistance is supposed to stream loading similar to Gears of War but I haven't played it.

Coupled with the fact that every PS3 is equipped with a HDD so caching is more readily available unlike the Xbox 360 which is crippled in that sense even compared to the original Xbox. Stupid core pack.

I would fucking love it if MGS4 came to the 360 though as I'll probably have to buy a PS3 to fuckin play it when it comes out.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/22/tretton-ps3-will-be-difficult-to-cost-reduce/

Seeing shit like this pisses me off though. I really wish Sony would pull their head out of their ass. Look at the PSP and how that pricing strategy has worked! You fuckers!

FUCK SONY GODDAMNIT! FREE MGS4!!!!!!!
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:15 pm        Reply with quote

oneEIGHTkevin wrote:
I think the Blu-Ray drive speed thing is blown out of proportion. The fact that loading times haven't been bad at all on any games so far: RR7 and RR6 have no discernible difference in loading times and Resistance is supposed to stream loading similar to Gears of War but I haven't played it.

Dude, like I said, in order to reduce load times due to a slow drive speed for larger games (like, I doubt RR7 is a larger game) they duplicate data all over the place so that the drive doesn't have to go as far. It's a work around and I never said that there is huge load times. If MGS4 is a huge game that does involve a lot of data duplication to save on load times then a 360 port with faster drive speeds would reduce data size. I mean, it makes sense, but I have no idea if this is the case or even possible.
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DonMarco
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:23 pm        Reply with quote

Fuck Kojima up his Sony-branded ass. MGS was on 2 cds because of the 15 hours of recorded dialogue. MGS 2 and 3 were on one DVD, and had twice as much talking. What happened to the Kojima that barely used voice/sound on Policenauts and Snatcher? The Kojima that focused more on the plot, delivery and overall presentation? To limit a game's release (or re-release) because of media size? Is this the same Konami that slapped MGS on a GBC cart and the UMD?

Fuck.
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Leau



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:24 pm        Reply with quote

Waffen wrote:
shut it you weeabo bitch


lol. weeaboo. ah that always makes me laugh.
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option



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:34 pm        Reply with quote

Ethoscapade wrote:
Shapermc wrote:
Legal Step wrote:
Blue Dragon is 4 discs or something right?

Yes it is actaully!


what! i hadn't heard that! that's ridiculous.


FMV eats space like a bastard
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Toups
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Joined: 03 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:36 pm        Reply with quote

option wrote:
Ethoscapade wrote:
Shapermc wrote:
Legal Step wrote:
Blue Dragon is 4 discs or something right?

Yes it is actaully!


what! i hadn't heard that! that's ridiculous.


FMV eats space like a bastard


especially in 720p!!
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parkbench



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:11 pm        Reply with quote

Quote:
What happened to the Kojima that barely used voice/sound


Uh...technology?
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DonMarco
graphics fucker


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:37 pm    Post subject: Technology is in the eyes of the beholder.    Reply with quote

parkbench wrote:
Quote:
What happened to the Kojima that barely used voice/sound


Uh...technology?

Yeah, the technology was there way way back in 1996. Remember the "Pizza time!" and "Uhh, sheel shocked" from the TMNT arcade game? 1997 had Mario 64, featuring a Mario that wouldn't shut the fuck up to save his life. CD-quality sound, not synthesized from onboard chips was used on the PCX, Sega CD, Saturn and PS1. FMV on the Genesis. Mode 7.

It's one thing to play FFVII and love the music. Then hate FFVI because it's all beeps and boops. Audio used to be completely chip-based. Then with the CD ROM, and better codecs, you could put actual recorded dialogue that didn't sound like it was from some crappy talking doll. CD-quality eventually lead on to voice actors and celebrity work. At the expense of loading times came huge storage capabitilies and low cost per disc. Which is why 2- or 4-disc games aren't such a bad thing. If you are using tons of video or sound.
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BotageL
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:48 pm        Reply with quote

DonMarco wrote:
Is this the same Konami that slapped MGS on a GBC cart and the UMD?

Don't be a prick. Those were totally different games and you know it.
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professor_scissors



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:51 pm        Reply with quote

DonMarco:
What point are you trying to make, exactly? I'm confused.
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showka



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:53 pm        Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
oneEIGHTkevin wrote:
I think the Blu-Ray drive speed thing is blown out of proportion. The fact that loading times haven't been bad at all on any games so far: RR7 and RR6 have no discernible difference in loading times and Resistance is supposed to stream loading similar to Gears of War but I haven't played it.

Dude, like I said, in order to reduce load times due to a slow drive speed for larger games (like, I doubt RR7 is a larger game) they duplicate data all over the place so that the drive doesn't have to go as far. It's a work around and I never said that there is huge load times. If MGS4 is a huge game that does involve a lot of data duplication to save on load times then a 360 port with faster drive speeds would reduce data size. I mean, it makes sense, but I have no idea if this is the case or even possible.

Shaper, the way I heard it this was a special case fix used for Oblivion. Now this is just a guess, but does Oblivion load while its doing other things, i.e. you walk into a new area and it loads as your walking around? Because if so the slower drive speed could've caused routines to not sync up properly and thus they HAD to make the game load the same speed on the PS3 somehow or deal with rsyncing everything else. In any case their solution, while probably clever, sounds like a huge pain in the ass and I can't imagine anyone making a game specifically for the PS3 and doing the same thing.

The bigger question than if MGS4 will be on the X-Box 360 is in which ways will it be worse? I mean MGS2 on the X-Box was almost universally denounced as inferior. If the game is designed to take advantage of the PS3's harddrive caching, there could be noticable increases in load time on the 360 version if Kojima Productions doesn't put a lot of time into fixing it. Which I doubt they would.
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Waffen



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:59 pm        Reply with quote

Its universally known the 360 has a better processor and more RAM.

if anything it'd be better.

and I don't give a damn what you say about that "environ-camo" crap.

sounds like more $ell Processor/Emotion Engine/Cyber-shot/Type-R jay-pan BS to me.
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BotageL
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:28 pm        Reply with quote

Can we please refrain from turning this into a console spec pissing match? If you want to do that, go to NeoGAF.
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:41 pm        Reply with quote

showka wrote:
I mean MGS2 on the X-Box was almost universally denounced as inferior.

You know, I remember hearing this, but I don't remember what the hell was worse about it. Can someone pull up a list for me on these things? I'm just curious.

The question is a valid one about what would be "worse" although it doesn't have to do with hardware as much as architecture of the consoles. As stated with MGS2, the libraries which were created for the game were only designed to take specific advantage of the disadvantages of the PS2. It had nothing to do with hardware specs.

Also, you are probably right about that PS3 stuff showka. What I read made it seem like what was going on with oblivion was a common item, so I generalized it.
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showka



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:48 pm        Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
showka wrote:
I mean MGS2 on the X-Box was almost universally denounced as inferior.

You know, I remember hearing this, but I don't remember what the hell was worse about it. Can someone pull up a list for me on these things? I'm just curious.

The question is a valid one about what would be "worse" although it doesn't have to do with hardware as much as architecture of the consoles. As stated with MGS2, the libraries which were created for the game were only designed to take specific advantage of the disadvantages of the PS2. It had nothing to do with hardware specs.

Also, you are probably right about that PS3 stuff showka. What I read made it seem like what was going on with oblivion was a common item, so I generalized it.


I waited to get an X-Box assuming that MGS2X (as it was once called in rumor collumns) would be better due to the X-Box's hardware advantages. Then the reviews came out and places like JunkerHq said the graphics were worse and there were other errors I don't remember. I recall the opinion on the inferiority of the port being almost universal among Metal Gear Solid fan-sites, so I finally dropped the cash for a PS2. It was a good thing I did since MGS3 ended up being PS2 exclusive.
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oneEIGHTkevin



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:50 pm        Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
oneEIGHTkevin wrote:
I think the Blu-Ray drive speed thing is blown out of proportion. The fact that loading times haven't been bad at all on any games so far: RR7 and RR6 have no discernible difference in loading times and Resistance is supposed to stream loading similar to Gears of War but I haven't played it.

Dude, like I said, in order to reduce load times due to a slow drive speed for larger games (like, I doubt RR7 is a larger game) they duplicate data all over the place so that the drive doesn't have to go as far. It's a work around and I never said that there is huge load times. If MGS4 is a huge game that does involve a lot of data duplication to save on load times then a 360 port with faster drive speeds would reduce data size. I mean, it makes sense, but I have no idea if this is the case or even possible.


Okay yeah I see what your saying. I was just thinking that devs would sooner cache that redundant data to the HDD rather than putting it on multiple parts of the disc to reduce loading.

I guess I wans't really arguing with you directly but with a strawman that I built.
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Toups
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:22 am        Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
showka wrote:
I mean MGS2 on the X-Box was almost universally denounced as inferior.

You know, I remember hearing this, but I don't remember what the hell was worse about it. Can someone pull up a list for me on these things? I'm just curious.


frame rate was the biggest problem from what I recall.
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boojiboy7
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:32 am        Reply with quote

the controls were a little weird, especially if you palyed any MGS before that, and even on their own.
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Mr. Mechanical
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:00 am        Reply with quote

Mister Toups wrote:
Shapermc wrote:
showka wrote:
I mean MGS2 on the X-Box was almost universally denounced as inferior.

You know, I remember hearing this, but I don't remember what the hell was worse about it. Can someone pull up a list for me on these things? I'm just curious.


frame rate was the biggest problem from what I recall.


Yeah, specifically during the tanker mission when you were outside in the rain, and during the final fight with the half dozen Metal Gear Rays. Framerate dropped considerably in those two spots, only two I could remember off hand.

And the spotty controls, I suppose, but I never recalled having much problem playing the game on the Xbox pad. Though the first-person only extra missions were kind of a pain because it didn't control like an actual FPS, you had to stop moving to look around and shoot and all.
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BotageL
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:32 am        Reply with quote

Yeah, basically, MGS2 Xbox looked much sharper overall, but outside on the tanker the framerate suffered. The controls were a little weird, too, but not unplayably so or anything. It's nowhere near a bad a port as the hype would have you believe; while it's a bummer that the framerate seemingly pointlessly suffers in a few spots, it's otherwise just fine.
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SplashBeats
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:16 am        Reply with quote

Actually, the major problem is that the game attempts to run at 60FPS, when the PS2 version runs at 30. This leads to the controls being jerky as all hell, as the game isn't meant to run that fast.
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aderack



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: Kojima likes GoW    Reply with quote

kiken wrote:
So he's interested in developing for 360, Wii and PC...

... and doesn't care about HD.

Yeah. Interesting, isn't it. Man has his priorities.

It's been implied before that MGS4 isn't going to be a Sony exclusive for long. How much weight is behind this, I dunno. Still, I was intrigued to see him at the Microsoft conference in September.

As for the drive speed, has anyone considered that we're basically getting a 1x drive in this thing? In some senses we're back to the Turbo Duo and Sega CD.
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dementia



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:07 am        Reply with quote

Joe wrote:
Actually, the major problem is that the game attempts to run at 60FPS, when the PS2 version runs at 30. This leads to the controls being jerky as all hell, as the game isn't meant to run that fast.


I always thought MGS2 PS2 was 60 fps, which is why it's so jarring to play MGS3 which was 30 fps.
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Aaron



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:11 am        Reply with quote

If you clear away the fanboy-isms on both sides, the PS3 drive is just a little slower than the 360 one. This is pretty much a non-factor in most games, including those that stream. The reason it's an issue at all in Oblivion is the odd way it loads the game data in chunks instead of streaming the way GTA always did. So it has a unusual need for a high number of duplicate data. If it had been made for the PS3 in mind, this wouldn't have been an issue.

If MGS4 would work on the 360 I think depends a lot on what Kojima plans to do with all of that space. MGS2X was a lazy port, so I think we can set that aside. I mean, Konami can't possibly be that lazy anymore, can they?
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Kappuru
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: Kojima likes GoW    Reply with quote

Eric-Jon Rössel Waugh wrote:

As for the drive speed, has anyone considered that we're basically getting a 1x drive in this thing? In some senses we're back to the Turbo Duo and Sega CD.



errr.. i don't know what the kb/sec read speeds are, but I know they're a whole hell of a lot more than 150kb/sec.
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firenze



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:33 am        Reply with quote

1. Ridge Racer 7 loads noticeably faster than RR6 if you use the "install to HDD" option to put frequently accessed data on the HDD. They really are essentially the same game, so I'd expect load times to be pretty similar. This is certainly a PS3 advantage, and another reason to feel irritated that MS even made the Core pack. (Oh, RR7 feels like it loads just a bit slower than RR6 with no HDD installation).


2. Perhaps MGS4 will come to another platform that isn't 360 (or obviously Wii)... Microsoft has been really hyping up Windows Vista as a gaming platform. It seems like a matter of time before the 360 gaming business and Vista gaming have more convergence. I'm not convinced of a PC version or anything, but just saying it's not an insane possibility.
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firenze



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: Kojima likes GoW    Reply with quote

Kappuru wrote:
errr.. i don't know what the kb/sec read speeds are, but I know they're a whole hell of a lot more than 150kb/sec.


You're completely right, and it equating "1x" as a measurement of Blu-ray data access speed with CD-ROM or DVD ideas is simply comparing apples and oranges. However, people do fall for this sort of thing.

Reminds me of the positively insane Cingular US cell phone advertising strategy of a year or two ago. They showed signal strength as FIVE little bars, as opposed to the competition (which had only four bars). Then they proceeded to imply that more bars = better reception. Except that's fucking stupid, because supposing a 100% clear signal Cingular's 5 bars is the exact same thing as someone else's 4 bars. Dividing two identical pies, one into four pieces and one into 20 pieces, does not mean the one with 20 pieces contains more pie!
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