[Dark Age Iron Savior]

[Touran]

[chevluh]

[dessgeega]

[remote]

[glossolalia]

seems like you're the only one getting all that indignant, actually.

i think it's more interesting to discuss things on their own merits, however ridiculous or socially unacceptable, than to have to preface everything with faux-righteous indignation and mockery i mean you could go to Something Awful for that, you're not really taking the high ground here.

[remote]

Not at all, but like I said, being a little bit obnoxious. I'm aware of it.

[chevluh]

But what in it so so creepier than pretending to hunt or kill living beings for your enjoyment? Sure, you're not ignoring the context of pretend, that's not the double standard I'm talking about.

You're saying pretending in this domain is different and inherently inferior to the pretend violence and pretend consumerism and power fantasies rampant in videogames. I say it's just one more aspect of it, possibly not even the most disturbing (it bothers me less than the kind of "fuck yeah" reactions you get when Kratos tears a gryphon's head off or something in the latest GoW3 trailer) and we shouldn't let it get in the way of finding out what makes these games and these gamers tick, because as I pointed out earlier it's actually a whole market that has its own notable pecularities, which can be interesting for mainstream games.

Or is it the added element of potential masturbation that's grossing you out? For all you know there are people who masturbate to mainstream games too (and probably more, because of the market's size).
It rather indicates you're having a problem with the players, and if so let us discuss the games.

[Dark Age Iron Savior]

okay, two things, antitype

1. have you read that whole artificial girl 2 review?

2. have you read Tim's portable island review?
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[remote]

No on the second one, but I will tomorrow. That's a bit long, and I want to play some more Fallout 3 before I go to bed.

[Tokyo Rude]

oh yeah now I remember.

[bloody heartland]

I think the vast bulk of hentai games are pathetic, antitype! Hang in there!

At the end of the day, there's just something about gang-rape after a fight (Variable Geo) that's more obscene than Mortal Kombat's fatalities. There's something fairly worrying about knowing that much about this genre that you can pull this out in an arguement!

Hentai games just seem to be diametrically opposed to healthy interaction on the scale of things. I've never seen one that suggested it was the vision of a healthy mind.

[BenoitRen]

[Predator Goose]

I never would have imagined people would get righteous over porn. Over caring for porn even.

Reminds me of a scene from Tromeo and Juliet (NSF anyone ever).
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I can no longer shop happily.

[chevluh]

[scratchmonkey]

I just don't get, if you would find something puerile and disgusting, why you wouldn't want to discuss and analyze it. Maybe it's just me, when I run into something that you react to in that way; I want to to know the whys and hows of my reaction as well as other people's reactions.

[CubaLibre]

[Intentionally Wrong]

How did that old sig quote go?

Asked how to avoid lust of the flesh, Diogenes began playing Godhand. When rebuked for doing so, he replied: "If only I could soothe my hunger by playing Cooking Mama."

What a classic.

[Rya.Reisender]

[manmachine plays jazz]

[chevluh]

[remote]

Let's imagine for a moment that it's the year 2102 and this is a thread where we discuss the subject of dating and then "making love" to our new robot girl companions. Perhaps we are robot enthusiasts, and the thread is supposed to be about how well-made these robots actually are, and what unrecognized genius is behind them, yet by our very discussion we're admitting that we own fuckbots ourselves and do in fact use and enjoy them.

Would that not be a little bit funny, sad, or even disgusting?

I mean I guess you could argue that these fuckbots would be nothing more than really advanced sex toys, but I sort of doubt that many women have stimulating romantic conversations with their vibrators before getting off with them. Wouldn't it be slightly odd if they did?

So yeah, Intentionally Wrong, I'd agree that masturbation is a perfectly natural and even necessary thing! What I'm poking fun at here is the use of a videogame as a means to this end, considering how bizarre they can be and how some of their fans seem to get so wrapped up in how wonderful these pixelated female companions are...

I'll admit the discussion of their actual game mechanics certainly brings up some interesting points (like the potentiality of flirtation thing), but I still see the whole concept of "masturbation games" as being, depending on the precise nature of the content, kind of sleazy, funny, or just fucking sick.

[Jam]

[Talbain]

[Tlon]

[remote]

Ohhhh godddd Talbain I'm beginning to find this whole thing really tiresome.

Go read that Tim Rogers review of Portable Island that DAIS linked to above. I feel it reinforces what I'm trying to say here.

[Talbain]

[Dark Age Iron Savior]

[remote]

[Dark Age Iron Savior]

portlable island sold 20k in five months.
I could probably name you plenty of hentai games that sold more in less.

Do you think all the people who bought these games are sleazy, "funny", or just fucking sick?
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[Tlon]

[chevluh]

The fuckbots are an amusing comparison but ultimately not relevant - because you've just slid the scale of value through a change of context but it actually doesn't change the relative values. It just seems weird because of the sudden human similarity (yes, I said sudden, because you've just got from pictures on a screen with predefined adventure game dialog to androids you expect to be able to have conversations). I'd find them creepy as hell - yet, it's still worthy of note, immensely less creepy than human-looking robots you'd hunt and destroy for fun.

In other words it seems creepy because of the strong, physical human verisimilitude, not because of the sex thing. Thus yes, if I were a sexbot manufacturer I'd want them to have interesting conversation. Women don't have them with sex toys but apparently with gigolos, and gigolos are the relevant comparison for sexbots, not games.

Also, Tlon

[CubaLibre]

[chevluh]

[remote]

[chevluh]

[remote]

And I think there may be some credibility to what you're saying, but your example is so far-fetched you're risking destroying your own credibility. In everything I've said in this thread, though, I'm not even targeting only the worst-case-scenario eroge fiends. I've mostly just been talking about the games themselves, actually, without attacking players (because I'm not out to make sweeping generalizations about players and what they hope to derive from these games, although I can make a pretty good guess!), but I would say that even people who might claim to be fairly casual about them would be better off just finding some decent porn (or, you know, a real human sex partner) and skip the creepy/bizarre/precious game of virtual "seduction". Because after a while, if those people keep playing those games and getting off on it, yes, they become a bit creepy, too.

And no, I don't think comparing this to people who play videogames containing violence works. People don't generally play violent videogames with the explicit intent to BUST A NUT (or some equivalent physical/emotional response) when they corner their prey. Killing in videogames is usually a means to an end, driven by some greater impetus, and it's understood as such by the player -- even if some games make killing a very enjoyable thing to do. (Also, it might be worth noting that violence is probably the easiest, most basic way of portraying conflict in narrative, especially for a videogame.) If there was a game where you had to fuck every girl in the neighborhood in order to SAVE THE WORLD or something that might be kind of similar structurally, but ... of course people would still be playing it with one hand on the controller.

God, I can't believe hardly anyone else finds this even a tiny bit hilarious.

[Talbain]

[Jam]

[chevluh]

[BenoitRen]

Dating simulations are only one sub-genre. There's many other sub-genres. There's sexfests, comedies, drama, dungeon crawlers, shooting games, puzzle games, pinball games, etc.

I still don't see why inserting some pornography into games suddenly makes them creepy. And you (antitype) are making judgements about players. The whole masturbation bit is a good example.
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