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General Eroge Thread: CircleJerk Ahoy (Ft. Eroge week '08)
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bloody heartland
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Joined: 15 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:05 am        Reply with quote

I suppose what I'm nuging at here is that if the only two thoughts you can think or articulate are "sex" and "videogames", congradulations, you are 13 forever (this is an insult to many 13 year olds f.y.i.)
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bloody heartland
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Joined: 15 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:09 am        Reply with quote

guys I wrote an indie vidcon about animu tits who wants to explore my sexuality with me
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bloody heartland
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Joined: 15 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:15 am        Reply with quote

Actually, I think that's a good point. If you see videogames as a way to explore your sexuality (playing one handed) or if you can only explore sexuality through videogames, doesn't your life need a bit more thematic spice?
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bloody heartland
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Joined: 15 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:33 am        Reply with quote

I think this is why I really like Suda51's two most recent: Killer 7 and No More Heroes have scenes and elements with strong or fetishised sexual elements, but the game doesn't linger over then to brag about how transgressive it is, it just moves forward using the motifs where it needs to. No More Heroes could have been pure boring sex comedy in lesser hands, but the plot has a lot of other things going on (metacomentary, possible critque of otaku consumerism, possible affection for otaku consuerism, etc). It never feels like Suda is groping himself under the table, but it doesn't feel sexless.
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chevluh



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:42 am        Reply with quote

Talbain wrote:
In fact it's surprising that many interesting stories spawn from the h-game genre, for whatever reason - each story in Fate/Stay Night is roughly a novel in length for example. Actually perhaps it's not surprising, in the same way that corny romance scenes in romance novels are not surprising.


Yeah, stories become prevalent in that market because it's the cheapest part of a game to make. They can't go for the technological arms race of the mainstream market, so they focus on text and drawings, and text is still cheaper than drawings.

You don't see that in the mainstream market because mainstream devs know that text is boring, will scare your buyers away and should be eradicated by the combined forces of voices and pretty icons.
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Talbain



Joined: 14 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:00 am        Reply with quote

bloody heartland wrote:
I think this is why I really like Suda51's two most recent: Killer 7 and No More Heroes have scenes and elements with strong or fetishised sexual elements, but the game doesn't linger over then to brag about how transgressive it is, it just moves forward using the motifs where it needs to. No More Heroes could have been pure boring sex comedy in lesser hands, but the plot has a lot of other things going on (metacomentary, possible critque of otaku consumerism, possible affection for otaku consuerism, etc). It never feels like Suda is groping himself under the table, but it doesn't feel sexless.

The two statues I linked earlier could be these things as well.
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remote



Joined: 11 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:18 am        Reply with quote

vision wrote:
eh...

caught!
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Rya.Reisender
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:55 pm        Reply with quote

So what about we leave out those hentai games with actually good gameplay / story where you might as well could remove the hentai, and think about hentai cames that can really make you horny and are really good to play for masturbation. For example I'm thinking of those heavily animated flashs where there's a girl and you can do with her anything you want (the good ones). In my opinion, they are a lot better for masturbation than let's say hentai / porn videos / pictures / figures. They are more like masturbation by using your phantasy. You can actually interact and make your own story that you enjoy. Compared to real sex? Well guess real sex more intimate and you can feel more, but real sex is a lot harder to get (not always available, I mean even if you have a girlfriend she probably doesn't want sex whenever you want) plus when having real sex you can't do whatever you like (all sex partners always have some kind of border they don't cross, I mean hell aren't there lots of girls that don't even let you put items inside of them? or that let you watch masturbating?).
So even if you only regard the 'erotic' aspect of those games they still have clear advantages over real sex or videos (not absolutely, but in certain situations they can be best).

Plus, I know it's partly escapism and you guys hate that, but still most dating sims offer girls that don't exist in real life (or at least you'll hardly meet one even if you are not an escapist). So this is another thing those games offer that you can't have in real life.
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bloody heartland
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Joined: 15 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:01 pm        Reply with quote

Rya talking about you in public with a real human being was surreal let me tell you
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chevluh



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:52 pm        Reply with quote

Rya.Reisender wrote:
So what about we leave out those hentai games with actually good gameplay / story where you might as well could remove the hentai, and think about hentai cames that can really make you horny and are really good to play for masturbation.


That's kinda like deciding to discuss Mario's mustache instead of Mario games, it leaves out all the interesting bits (unless you're a mustache fetishist). Plus frankly what makes good wank material's all dependent on your personal tastes.

As for making up your own story, you don't even need a game for that. the external agent's interest is precisely the element of surprise introduced by the fact it's not a story or mechanism you'd make up, but that may actually end up being more compelling than what you'd come up with (and this applies to non-eroge too, landmark games are those that bring something new to the table.).
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Intentionally Wrong



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:21 pm        Reply with quote

bloody heartland wrote:
I suppose what I'm nuging at here is that if the only two thoughts you can think or articulate are "sex" and "videogames", congradulations, you are 13 forever (this is an insult to many 13 year olds f.y.i.)
Quote:
Actually, I think that's a good point. If you see videogames as a way to explore your sexuality (playing one handed) or if you can only explore sexuality through videogames, doesn't your life need a bit more thematic spice?


I don't know who you're addressing with these admonishments--the people in this thread, or the people who actually play hentai games--but since I can happily put myself in either category, I think it's safe to assume you're talking to me.

I don't need to prove myself to you. This discussion will not be improved with the addition of exhaustive personal histories which will qualify its participants as Legitimate Adults. The implication that, because I play sex games, I must not have any interests besides either sex OR games is some kind of ridiculous wishful-thinking ad hominem attack. And while sex games certainly aren't the best way to explore the topic of sexuality, they are not invalidated just because superior alternatives exist. We don't condemn corn just because potatoes are better for you; many people eat both. And so on.
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glossolalia



Joined: 04 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:29 pm        Reply with quote

potatoes are just empty starch
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Intentionally Wrong



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:58 pm        Reply with quote

glossolalia wrote:
potatoes are just empty starch


Yeah, I did that on purpose. For you wacky funsters who refuse to ignore nutritional realities, the sentence still works if you exchange the two vegetable names.
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Rya.Reisender
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:09 pm        Reply with quote

chevluh wrote:
Rya.Reisender wrote:
So what about we leave out those hentai games with actually good gameplay / story where you might as well could remove the hentai, and think about hentai cames that can really make you horny and are really good to play for masturbation.


That's kinda like deciding to discuss Mario's mustache instead of Mario games, it leaves out all the interesting bits (unless you're a mustache fetishist). Plus frankly what makes good wank material's all dependent on your personal tastes.

But in the end you are saying that the interesting parts of an eroge game for you are the gameplay and the story. Then you might as well just play an RPG, or am I wrong?
The Mario's mustache isn't really a good comparison because Mario's mustache is not the main element of Mario games.
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:28 pm        Reply with quote

I quit this thread because it is dumb now. Rather; you people are going around in circles.
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Rya.Reisender
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:38 pm        Reply with quote

I tried to input new content but it didn't work. Fail. :-(
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chevluh



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:44 pm        Reply with quote

Rya.Reisender wrote:
chevluh wrote:
Rya.Reisender wrote:
So what about we leave out those hentai games with actually good gameplay / story where you might as well could remove the hentai, and think about hentai cames that can really make you horny and are really good to play for masturbation.


That's kinda like deciding to discuss Mario's mustache instead of Mario games, it leaves out all the interesting bits (unless you're a mustache fetishist). Plus frankly what makes good wank material's all dependent on your personal tastes.

But in the end you are saying that the interesting parts of an eroge game for you are the gameplay and the story. Then you might as well just play an RPG, or am I wrong?
The Mario's mustache isn't really a good comparison because Mario's mustache is not the main element of Mario games.

Mario wouldn't be the same without his mustache, that's important. Oh sure, I could've said Mario without some more omnipresent aesthetic element, like mushrooms, but mushroom fetishism didn't sound as amusing as mustache fetishism. There's actually one Mario game where the mustache made it as a gameplay element, bonus points if you can name it. But I digress.

What I am saying is that an eroge (or at least a good one) is a whole. Sure, if I just want gameplay I can get a mainstream game, but in the same way if I just want to fantasize on the pics I could just get the HCG collection from some shady part of the net and save myself the trouble, so it's actually the game/porn mix and what may result I find compelling (And actually part of the aesthetic, since they're a low-tech niche they tend to stick to blue skies-type graphics and push bitmap stills to their limits instead of 3D, it's refreshing. But having your porn game use the same kind of palette as Isles of Terra's just a bonus).
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remote



Joined: 11 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:51 pm        Reply with quote

Cuba, this thread has been going in circles for quite a while.

Rya.Reisender wrote:
I know it's partly escapism and you guys hate that

I have no problem with escapism, aside from my own tendency to overindulge. What I was trying to do here, basically, was put forth the idea that sex in videogames (particularly eroge, or "dating" sims) is a psychologically deformed "avenue of exploring sexuality". Whether I'm completely invalidating them as such is open to debate.
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Talbain



Joined: 14 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:04 am        Reply with quote

antitype wrote:
Cuba, this thread has been going in circles for quite a while.

Perhaps the same could be said of all religions!

...

Sorry.


Anyway. I'd say that going in circles is basically where any argument ends, since logic always ends up being circular to a person's attitudes/beliefs.

Psychologically deformed? I'm pretty sure you could apply such an argument to anything antitype. But if we're going to make such an argument, I'd argue that we're all psychologically deformed. Which is a reasonable argument, but I don't think that eroge is the cause nor an initiating factor of that.
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Rya.Reisender
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:51 am        Reply with quote

Well you see.
If you just want to play a good game -> get a 'mainstream' game
If you just want to look at naked chicks -> get porn pictures
If you want to interact with naked chicks virtually -> get a eroge game
Each serves its purpose. You can't just split "eroge game" in its both parts "normal game" and "erotic pictures" and then say it would actually lead to the same result, because it doesn't.
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