selectbutton
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile / Ignoring   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

General Eroge Thread: CircleJerk Ahoy (Ft. Eroge week '08)

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    selectbutton Forum Index -> King of Posters
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Intentionally Wrong



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:23 pm        Reply with quote

That MxS game kind of reminds me of the old Princess Maker games, where you were responsible for scheduling this girl's training, education, and free time. It's also reminiscent of the newly-burgeoning management sim games like Diner Dash.

In terms of porn games, the two big variables are in terms of Structure and Narrative. While obviously these variables represent a whole spectrum of possible designs, for the sake of the discussion let's pretend they're binary.

So in terms of structure, on one end you've got the Task/Reward model, where you jump through one or more gameplay hoops, for which you're rewarded with an arousing picture, cutscene, or interactive sequence. The task itself may or may not have anything to do with reward you're pursuing; the classic example is Strip Poker, but the traditional h-game also falls in this category.

On the other end of the structural axis is the Participatory model, where the arousing content is immediately available and the player's involvement determines how the sequence plays out. You can find this a lot in flash and in adult interactive fiction. Sexualized fighting games (hello SCIV and DOA) do this, too. There's also a company called Illusion Soft that makes several games based on this structure; they wind up being little more than a "creepy digital sex doll" program.

There's a similar range in narrative approaches; without going into it too much, some games have a very specific setting or characters or scenario, while some games are extremely generic, unassuming affairs, presumably to encourage the player to come up with his own ideas about why these people happen to be doing whatever it is they're doing, wherever they happen to be.

SO TO SUMMARIZE:

The generic task/reward game is poker or pong or any other typical game with pornographic rewards for success.

Specific task/reward games include traditional h-games, some AIF, and hybrid games like Soul Calibur.

The generic participatory category contains Illusion Soft's products, among others.

The specific participatory category is the one I'm most curious about, because I'm having a hard time thinking of examples. There's some AIF, but probably the most interesting thing I've found that might qualify is this old series of KiSS dolls made by this obscure German guy who went by "the Owl." Equal parts fairy-tale, romance, and pornographic content, they told a variety of stories about this girl who got transformed into a scarecrow; using a variety of everyday items, some magic, and an indefatigable sense of trial and error, the player could transform her back, win her heart, and then try to sex her up without accidentally summoning a demon or destroying the world.
_________________
JSNLV is frequently and intentionally wrong.
Unfilter / Back to top 
View user's profile Send private message
Intentionally Wrong



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:16 pm        Reply with quote

So, I finally got around to checking these links out, and wow. Talk about a nostalgia trip. Back at KU I kind of went on a KiSS spree for a couple months back in late 2000, early 2001, just to try to figure out what the hell was going on here. It all came across as... really, really foreign, even when people were using western art designs or properties.
_________________
JSNLV is frequently and intentionally wrong.
Unfilter / Back to top 
View user's profile Send private message
Intentionally Wrong



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:34 pm        Reply with quote

How did that old sig quote go?

Asked how to avoid lust of the flesh, Diogenes began playing Godhand. When rebuked for doing so, he replied: "If only I could soothe my hunger by playing Cooking Mama."

What a classic.

antitype wrote:
dessgeega wrote:
antitype wrote:
I just find the whole idea of talking about HENTAI GAMES without a certain level of general disdain or snickering to be sort of odd.

what, are we all nine-year-olds that we can't talk about sex seriously?

I'm sorry, but what kind of retarded question is that? We're talking about "videogame sex" here, not actual human being sex. I find a certain amount of humor (and possibly disgust given the details of the scenario) in the idea of manipulating videogame characters to produce the most pleasing result for masturbation. Or a bit of precious hand-holding, even. I mean come on. Are you really going to ask that question in this thread? Can you really not differentiate...? I guess there really might be some people who would take HENTAI GAMES (which were the words I used in the sentence you quoted) as seriously as, you know, REAL SEX. As you can see, I do not.


Why is the dichotomy between HENTAI GAMES and REAL SEX? There's a pretty enormous gray area between those two categories, and depending on how you assign the activities and objects in that gray area, the importance of this discussion changes pretty significantly.

Now: I am not a psychologist, nor have I actually asked a psychologist whether this is true, but I'm pretty sure that masturbation is part of a healthy lifestyle. Certainly it's possible to live without masturbating; it's even possible to live healthily without any sexual contact whatsoever. It is ridiculously rare, however, and unless you've structured some sort of ascetic lifestyle to enable that decision, then Maslow's placement of "sexual gratification" on the bottommost rung of the Hierarchy of Needs alongside such classics as food, water, shelter, and the absence of immediately life-threatening conditions should hold true for you. Natural selection built us to have a regular desire for procreative acts; that's fundamental.

My next contention is that masturbation is not simply a "placeholder" for a real, live sexual partner. Even when you're in a happy, healthy, stable sexual relationship, masturbation still happens. It isn't a sign that the relationship is failing, nor is it something shameful. I'd argue it's unhealthy and unrealistic to expect your partner will completely satisfy you sexually and that masturbation should therefore be unnecessary.

Where does porn fit into all this? I'd argue that pornography, erotica, and romance are roughly analogous to junk food, fine dining, and dinner parties: they're all ways of satisfying an appetite; the first ones get the job done cheaply but effectively, but using them alone is probably unhealthy. (I guess "starving" is unhealthier than "junk food" in the short run, though.) The last ones may satisfy an appetite but they're actually about something else altogether.

Any aspect of living can be exploded into an impossible complexity of detail if you really get into the issues surrounding it. I don't really find erogames any more inexplicable than people spending thousands of dollars on cooking tools.

I'm running late for work now, but imagine I wrote several more paragraphs about how pongism and the demand for immediate action/response "lizard brain"-type gaming should hold erogames as probably more honest in their intention than something as abstract and cerebralized as MGS, about the inevitability of creepiness in anything exploring base human desires, and Neil Gaiman's defense of lolicon etc.

antitype wrote:
Touran wrote:
This post comes really close to saying that creating attachments to characters or stories is both hilarious and sad."

Nah, not really. But when you cross the line from caring for a character and perhaps missing her (or him) when the game/movie/book is over, to actually getting all warm and fuzzy about how you "made love" to her after long walks on the beach, it gets a little creepy. Kind of like how I think slash fanfiction is a little creepy. I mean I have certainly become attached to characters before, but have I sat around thinking seriously about how I'd like to fuck them? Not generally, no... (I've thought about a few actresses that way before, though, sure. But I see that as different.)

@chevluh, I don't really think I'm applying a double standard here because I'm not ignoring the assumed context of pretend. That itself is what I find funny and sad about it: that people are pretending to develop relationships with anime girls so they can fuck them and rub one out when they finally make it to that climactic screen, then bask in the afterglow of their computer screens, wishing real girls and relationships could be so perfect. I'm finding it more and more hilarious that this simple funny truth is constantly meeting so much indignant remonstration here in this thread. Golly, I must be such a 9-year-old...

Look, I realize I'm being somewhat obnoxious, but HENTAI GAMES.

Am I really alone on this? If so, I'll be on my way and you can return to discussing them ever so seriously.


You'er not being obnoxious though! You're not actually trolling at all! Hell, this is the best discussion we've had all year.

If this thread ever dies it needs to go to Thread Fighter 0.
_________________
JSNLV is frequently and intentionally wrong.
Unfilter / Back to top 
View user's profile Send private message
Intentionally Wrong



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:10 am        Reply with quote

Sorry this thread broke down "that way", antitype. It's the voices of dissent that make these discussions worthwhile for me, and I didn't feel like yours ever struck the wrong tone.
_________________
JSNLV is frequently and intentionally wrong.
Unfilter / Back to top 
View user's profile Send private message
Intentionally Wrong



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:21 pm        Reply with quote

bloody heartland wrote:
I suppose what I'm nuging at here is that if the only two thoughts you can think or articulate are "sex" and "videogames", congradulations, you are 13 forever (this is an insult to many 13 year olds f.y.i.)
Quote:
Actually, I think that's a good point. If you see videogames as a way to explore your sexuality (playing one handed) or if you can only explore sexuality through videogames, doesn't your life need a bit more thematic spice?


I don't know who you're addressing with these admonishments--the people in this thread, or the people who actually play hentai games--but since I can happily put myself in either category, I think it's safe to assume you're talking to me.

I don't need to prove myself to you. This discussion will not be improved with the addition of exhaustive personal histories which will qualify its participants as Legitimate Adults. The implication that, because I play sex games, I must not have any interests besides either sex OR games is some kind of ridiculous wishful-thinking ad hominem attack. And while sex games certainly aren't the best way to explore the topic of sexuality, they are not invalidated just because superior alternatives exist. We don't condemn corn just because potatoes are better for you; many people eat both. And so on.
_________________
JSNLV is frequently and intentionally wrong.
Unfilter / Back to top 
View user's profile Send private message
Intentionally Wrong



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:58 pm        Reply with quote

glossolalia wrote:
potatoes are just empty starch


Yeah, I did that on purpose. For you wacky funsters who refuse to ignore nutritional realities, the sentence still works if you exchange the two vegetable names.
_________________
JSNLV is frequently and intentionally wrong.
Unfilter / Back to top 
View user's profile Send private message
Quick Reply
 Attach signature
 Notify on replies

Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    selectbutton Forum Index -> King of Posters All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group