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General Eroge Thread: CircleJerk Ahoy (Ft. Eroge week '08)

 
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evnvnv
hapax legomenon


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: the los angeles

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:05 pm        Reply with quote

after briefly browsing this article i was reminded of something i read the other day (i wish i could remember the exact quote...) saying that the real middle class objection to prostitution was not the degrading of sex by its association with money, but the degrading of money by its association with sex

so replace 'money' with 'video games' and you might be able to come up with a new twist on the argument going on in this thread (don't soil my sterile video game playing experience with the implication that someone else's video game might be tempting them to sin!!)

ok so there might be something 'funny' about taking any kind of kitsch object seriously enough to debate furiously, and perhaps simply discussing the merits of the best porno games is not the most insightful analysis, but hentai games and pornography in general make up such a large part of the current proliferation of interactive media, there's no reason why it shouldn't be discussed

ironically it seems like antitype, who is the most averse to talking about it, is the one who is making many of the most interesting comments. i don't think that its necessary to assume that everybody who plays/buys/fetishizes porno video games is some kind of horrible pervert caricature, but thinking about the kind of sex that is most prevalent in these games is kind of peculiar. but like antitype says, violence is the easiest way of expressing conflict--so is the fact that sex in most games is treated as a reward that is gained by and given to one person a reflection of some kind of psychological deformity on behalf of the player or is it the same as a violent videogame--if an inherent goal of video games is to present conflict and 'challenges' is violence always going to be a product of that?

if sex games weren't so focused on 'deviant' sex would people still be offended by them?

i dont know i think this thread is interesting, but it also seems like what really irks people is just the intimation that porn games and 'normal' games have a lot more in common than they're willing to admit. if it's as simple as that...
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evnvnv
hapax legomenon


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: the los angeles

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:55 pm        Reply with quote

chevluh wrote:
evnvnv wrote:
if sex games weren't so focused on 'deviant' sex would people still be offended by them?

I suspect they would, because they'd still be porn and that itself is a deviance, plus antitype's original jab was actually pointed not at the deviant sex, since the aspects he mentioned were from the tamer categories.


i guess i should have modified that statement because i don't know that i've been convinced that anyone posting in this thread is actually offended by these games, just kind of grossed out or uninterested. but surely someone, somewhere has to be? i guess they're not really popular enough in the states to warrant a moralistic reaction, but one would think that perhaps in japan this kind of reaction would exist? i don't know. i suppose dating games are sort of like the less "morally reprehensible" version of porn games just like there are 'nonviolent' video games

i'm also kind of intrigued by the increasing presence of sex (as a way to make a game more 'realistic') in ostensibly non-pornographic games... stuff like GTA or fable etc. where having 'intimate relations' with other people is like a side feature of the game. is there any way to do this without seeming a little bit childish? the same way i've never been able to really figure out why i find sex scenes in movies so irritating... its like simulated sex just kind of reminds me that the entire thing is fake and it becomes boring..all i can think about is what the actors were thinking about when they were getting ready to film their sex scene and how awkward it would be to be naked in front of like, steven speilberg...not how it relates to the actual plot or emotions of the characters... even though i'm obviously aware that the movie / game i'm watching isn't 'real,' and don't derive any kind of enjoyment from pretending that it is. is there an 'uncanny valley' of sex?
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evnvnv
hapax legomenon


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: the los angeles

PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:40 am        Reply with quote

antitype wrote:

I am thinking I should pretty much stop talking now, not because DAIS thinks I have no argument, but because my very simple assertion that hentai games (dating sims in particular) are amusing/pathetic (in very much the same way that Portable Island is pathetic) is something that a surprising many of you take issue with. It's not because I do not take sex or "erotic forms" seriously. It doesn't have anything to do with "sin" or me thinking that sexual content and masturbation are tarnishing my precious videogames. We've covered this a few times already though, and I think all I can do now is repeat myself. I don't want to think about this anymore.


I wish you weren't taking this so personally. To me it isn't really an issue of "defending" or "attacking" these kinds of games...I don't really take any issue whatsoever with saying that these games are pathetic. In fact I think I've realized that what is weird about the phenomenon is, like sex scenes in movies, it kind of forces me to realize that the entire medium is in many ways 'pathetic.'

I mean porno games are a niche product but I think they are fulfilling to the people that enjoy them for many of the same reasons (in an exaggerated form) that people play 'normal' video games. You don't have to look very hard on the internet to find people that have the same kind of peculiar obsession with non-sex oriented video game characters that you've identified as being common among people who play porno games, and discussion of those things has certainly never been unwelcome here. I mean I admit I have a certain kind of sympathy for people who are terminally obsessed with things like mega man and super mario brothers because of my own nostalgic obsession. I don't know that you can necessarily draw that firm a line between that and people who've for some reason turned cartoon characters into fetish objects.

Perhaps this thread was made only to discuss the merits of these games as sex toys, in that case it's probably fine if you no longer want to participate in the discussion and leave it to those that actually do... but to me it's more interesting than just dividing things in to one side of people that is 'in to' porno games and the other side that finds it pathetic and unworthy of any attention whatsoever. It doesn't have to be that simple!

FAKE EDIT: as per your last post I guess it makes more sense. Though, since you obviously don't masturbate to porno video games, it might not be too crazy to assume that perhaps you would think differently about talking about it if you actually did do it ;-). I guess I get equally embarrassed about talking about 'normal' video games with people off the internet, too. Your "inner rapist" comment is probably going to piss a lot of people off, but I suppose its a valid point in the same way that violent video games appeal to the "inner serial murderer" in all of us (or maybe even worse, "inner violent enforcer of moral right"). I mean I think it is OK to just state that plenty of people believe that it is possible to discern fantasy from an unfulfilled desire to act.


Last edited by evnvnv on Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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