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Well, why does one play an eroge? Don't tell me it's because you really find the whole subject that compelling, or I'm going to call you a wanker and a pseudo-intellectual. Or at least a wanker, because that is all these games are about — and I have nothing at all against masturbation or sexuality in general, but when one turns to the retarded fantasies presented by games like these, I dunno... I just find it incredibly distasteful and a little pathetic? I would have thought these forums would be the last place the eroge genre would be met with any sort of glorification, or anything less than pure ridicule (aside from a few people I have always pretty much ignored (I mean we have Rya.Reisender saying here "it's because real girls suck" and it's just being left alone)). I mean, I know, some guys are just too busy playing videogames and watching anime to ever get some real pussy (let's be blunt), but I don't want to hear about how you wish you could use BOTH hands to jerk it while manipulating Fake Anime Girl (possibly your little sister) into blowing you or even just holding your hand or something.

I mean, what the fuck? How sad are we?

Sexual content in games is one thing, but when it becomes your tool for actual masturbation, physical, psychological, or emotional, fucking keep it to yourself. Wow.

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Ok, so she made an interesting point about how the potentiality contained in these scenarios is what's really interesting (right?), but elsewhere in the thread you have people saying, "Yeah, I actually jerked off to that scene." Um, ok?

I didn't actually say that total ridicule is the only acceptable response here, but I mean, come on. Hentai games. People saying they play them, and I'm pretty sure that most of the time it's not really because they find that POTENTIALITY oh so thrilling, or because they want to be able to hold a legitimate, thoughtful discussion about these games on selectbutton forums. It's because they can't get laid and they need weird fantasy scenarios to help them bust one. Involving mermaids and mentally disabled girls or whatever.

Am I wrong?

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Not at all, but like I said, being a little bit obnoxious. I'm aware of it.

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No on the second one, but I will tomorrow. That's a bit long, and I want to play some more Fallout 3 before I go to bed.

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Let's imagine for a moment that it's the year 2102 and this is a thread where we discuss the subject of dating and then "making love" to our new robot girl companions. Perhaps we are robot enthusiasts, and the thread is supposed to be about how well-made these robots actually are, and what unrecognized genius is behind them, yet by our very discussion we're admitting that we own fuckbots ourselves and do in fact use and enjoy them.

Would that not be a little bit funny, sad, or even disgusting?

I mean I guess you could argue that these fuckbots would be nothing more than really advanced sex toys, but I sort of doubt that many women have stimulating romantic conversations with their vibrators before getting off with them. Wouldn't it be slightly odd if they did?

So yeah, Intentionally Wrong, I'd agree that masturbation is a perfectly natural and even necessary thing! What I'm poking fun at here is the use of a videogame as a means to this end, considering how bizarre they can be and how some of their fans seem to get so wrapped up in how wonderful these pixelated female companions are...

I'll admit the discussion of their actual game mechanics certainly brings up some interesting points (like the potentiality of flirtation thing), but I still see the whole concept of "masturbation games" as being, depending on the precise nature of the content, kind of sleazy, funny, or just fucking sick.

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Ohhhh godddd Talbain I'm beginning to find this whole thing really tiresome.

Go read that Tim Rogers review of Portable Island that DAIS linked to above. I feel it reinforces what I'm trying to say here.

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And I think there may be some credibility to what you're saying, but your example is so far-fetched you're risking destroying your own credibility. In everything I've said in this thread, though, I'm not even targeting only the worst-case-scenario eroge fiends. I've mostly just been talking about the games themselves, actually, without attacking players (because I'm not out to make sweeping generalizations about players and what they hope to derive from these games, although I can make a pretty good guess!), but I would say that even people who might claim to be fairly casual about them would be better off just finding some decent porn (or, you know, a real human sex partner) and skip the creepy/bizarre/precious game of virtual "seduction". Because after a while, if those people keep playing those games and getting off on it, yes, they become a bit creepy, too.

And no, I don't think comparing this to people who play videogames containing violence works. People don't generally play violent videogames with the explicit intent to BUST A NUT (or some equivalent physical/emotional response) when they corner their prey. Killing in videogames is usually a means to an end, driven by some greater impetus, and it's understood as such by the player -- even if some games make killing a very enjoyable thing to do. (Also, it might be worth noting that violence is probably the easiest, most basic way of portraying conflict in narrative, especially for a videogame.) If there was a game where you had to fuck every girl in the neighborhood in order to SAVE THE WORLD or something that might be kind of similar structurally, but ... of course people would still be playing it with one hand on the controller.

God, I can't believe hardly anyone else finds this even a tiny bit hilarious.

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"the rest of us"

that's right, express your solidarity

let those self-righteous prudes have their real sex and human relationships!


by the way, i'm not telling you that your chosen avenue is not "legitimate", i'm telling you i think it's funny and sad. please take yourself a little bit more seriously. rraarrgh more indignant rage.

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I think this assertion that they should not be discussed at all was inferred, and not really what I meant.

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True, true. I guess I chose to take a slightly more diplomatic approach after a bit.

The "keep it to yourself" line is slightly out of context when quoted that way, though. I was mainly directing that at specific examples of "yeah, I rubbed one out to that scene" in reference to an eroge where you fuck a beached mermaid or something.

However, I guess after changing my tone a bit throughout this thread I'm obligated to revise my statement. I don't think the genre should not be discussed at all, but I personally think it should be discussed with more of a sense of humor and perhaps a bit of self-deprecation. I mean, if I played hentai games I would not tell my real-life friends that I did (let alone try to talk about them seriously, as videogames or even as porn) unless I wanted to be a little bit humiliated. Maybe that's just me. And it is not because of any prudishness -- I simply prefer deal with sex in terms of other thinking, feeling human beings, not in terms of anime girls drawn and made to be everything you (or your inner rapist) might want them to be. I do think the glorification of such media is a bit shameful. But hey, I'm not here to tell anyone what they can't do...

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Understood, and I really appreciate such a reasonable retort to everything I've said. I really have been a bit obnoxious.

Carry on, then! I'm off to get some beers and catch a movie with a friend anyway...

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I guess it's just that I feel hentai games are a bit too enabling for anyone seeking some form of interaction (said simulation of "seduction" or "flirtation" or in worse case scenarios "rape") when there are better/healthier ways of seeking this (minus the rape of course), even if they may seem a bit scarier or more hopeless (i.e. talking to real girls and not necessarily with the sole intention of using them for sexual gratification).

Sort of like how I thought it was weird how, when I was still playing WoW, a guildie confided in me that WoW was curing her social anxiety. Prescribed medication: epics! I mean, I don't need to say much more than that. MMOs, actual healthy social interaction? Solely based on the acquisition of gear? You follow...

Anyway, I think it's the illusion of control and how this seems to be treated as an escape from or an alternative to real relationships and sexual encounters that creeps me out a little. Even online dating is not a valid comparison because you are still dealing with real people and there is some likelihood that the absolute guaranteed end result is not pure sexual fantasy. Rejection remains a possibility!

@Intentionally Wrong, I will fully admit that my initial posts here came off as way too aggressive, but like I said I wasn't expecting them to cause such an uproar. I want to reiterate that I'm not here to express self-righteous moral outrage and tell anyone what they can or can't do. Just saying what I think. To put it as plainly as I can: I think that a simulation of flirtation/seduction and ultimately sex is rather boring and a bit odd compared to the real thing. But then, I've never been into serious roleplay, either, so maybe this is just me.

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I now feel I have served my purpose in this thread and I am more interested in seeing what else you might have to say than putting forth my own perceptions any further -- perceptions which remain generally the same, though I really do appreciate some of the points you guys are making.

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oh hi insomnia.

By the way, Cuba, I understand your argument about gameplay leading narrative, but I can come up with examples to counter that: Skies of Arcadia was a game whose painfully slow battles I slogged through only to see more of the game and its world and story. Mother 3's battle system is not so compelling to me, and yet I play the game. It's all "means to an end" gameplay. Yes, a game like HL2 seems to draw more attention to its combat because you enjoy it so much, but can you/do you really ignore what's going on around you? It's a narrative drive far more elaborate than "get to the the final boss". That the combat happens to be enjoyable is of equally important consideration, but in my opinion a game is better when its gameplay does not feel like something tacked on to move you through the world (hi jRPGS, hi retarded Zelda puzzles, hi "games that play yourselves" (need a better term for that)) but instead something that functions as a more naturally involving element, and HL2 succeeds in that regard. So again, quoting myself:

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Cuba, this thread has been going in circles for quite a while.