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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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 Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:14 pm |
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Hey Rudie now that you've learned to love Halo you should try Marathon.
play marathon instead lol
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| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:31 pm |
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| The New Ska wrote: |
| the original halo is Doom. |
Actually, this is probably all I needed to read. I don't like Halo because it's Doom. I like it because it's Rock/Paper/Scissors, hence my preference of 2 and beyond. Thanks!
-Wes
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shnozlak
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: pushing crates in the sewer level
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:52 pm |
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| Mr. Mechanical wrote: |
Hey Rudie now that you've learned to love Halo you should try Marathon.
play marathon instead lol |
Can we just have some sort of auto script that injects a 'please try marathon' post into the beginning of every thread?
Id totally play this on PC. Can you do co-op online? If so: ICGC? Team play Halo race?
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The New Ska
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:00 am |
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sorry i came off as a jerk! uh, hey. |
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:03 am |
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| shnozlak wrote: |
| Id totally play this on PC. Can you do co-op online? If so: ICGC? Team play Halo race? |
I don't think Halo PC had co-op originally, but maybe it's now available as a mod/update or something? I would reinstall it and tweak it again (iirc you had to really futz with it to get a decent framerate, even on high end machines) if a lot of you are wanting to get down. Halo 1 multiplayer is still some good times, overpowered pistol or no.
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bloody heartland
banned
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:21 am |
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| Greng wrote: |
| I enjoyed the library level most... don't think ANYONE liked that bit but me. Relentless waves of flood; good times. |
rocketlauncher for the win, greng |
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bloody heartland
banned
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:37 am |
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| Maztorre wrote: |
It's kind of sad that Silent Cartographer is still the peak of the series in terms of level design and overall game structure. There's quite a straightforward formula to that section in terms of pacing and flow that Bungie abandoned in Halo 2 and didn't quite reach again in Halo 3. Gears of War, for example, is far better constructed around its central gameplay hook compared to Halo. Gears 2 looks like the opposite of what happened to the Halo sequels: it remains confident in the strength of its core gameplay and builds new game modes and adds to/balances the weaponry around that central hook. What Bungie did with their game mechanics in Halo 2/3 is ridiculous in hindsight.
The Halo series would probably have been a lot better had it launched on PC with decent mod tools. For one, they probably would have been hiring actual level designers from the community instead of 1Up writers onto their staff. |
Uuuh, not to piss on your tabloid-esque editorialising here, but Silent Cartographer had a truly disproportionate amount of time spent on it during the final (Xbox) based phase of Halo development (Halo having previously existed as an RTS and a dreamy but neblous open-world concept demo). That's why it's so insanely polished, designed and a microcosm of the whole game.
The core hook of Halo was big epic battles, emergent battle flow, limited guns, small ground forces of allies, and Things You Can Pilot. Halo 2 was pretty boring and scripted, but Halo 3 has at least... I'd say at least 4 extremely replayable missions out of 10, all based around big epic battles, emergent battle flow, limited guns, small ground forces of allies, and Things You Can Pilot. I'm thinking of the big jeep breakout in africa, the awesome mission where you cut down the anti-air defenses, and the instalation zero missions. Absolutely all of them are great, with the latter being essentially Silent Cartographer II.
Contrast with Gears of War, which has little or no variety in it's gun battles (cover! woo!) and a whole metric shit heap of lumped on gameplay elements (the light/dark missions were pretty good but I'd gladly skullfuck whoever decided the APC mission was a good idea). Halo 3 is true to Halo 1 and has some of the best first-sitting flow and ante-upping I've experienced in a game.
All the fan service shit MGS4 did - echoes of past missions, return to the origin - Halo 3 did first, and with dignity. It has some real moments of beauty and wonder in there.
Anyone seen the Zero Punctuation for Halo 3? Dude doesn't get it at all. |
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bloody heartland
banned
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:49 am |
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| Maztorre wrote: |
| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| I thought 3 had a few levels that got close to Silent Cartographer. The Ark and the Covenant were both really well done and paced, building up to nice fights at the end. The one before the flood crash also really plays on Halo's strengths, having big open areas and letting the AI do it's thing so that the fight plays out in its own way each time. |
Yeah, 3 does strive for the same kind of gameplay again, but there's just so much fluff and bullshit going on around it just so you can get to those good parts, and a lot of it feels like legacy Halo 2 nonsense that they couldn't (wouldn't?) get rid of. By contrast Silent Cartographer is really pure and still feels extremely fresh, especially since the transitioning between exterior and interior fighting, and from on-foot to vehicle, occurs so naturally to the player. The sequels fail at making your choices seem natural, especially since they muddy the waters with linearity and scripting instead of letting the player have fun with the AI (the whole draw of the series). |
SC is scripted to high fuck - clear the beach head, spawn a warthog, reach this point, spawn an elite, go back up, new things have spawned. There's room for improvisation but the stage direction is strict.
The dual-scarab battle in H3 is a great example of choice-based gameplay - I like to hang on the side of one of those jets then land on the first scarab and clear it on foot, but there's a ton of other viable strategy trees. Likewise the first level - there's a couple of entrance points to the prison camp, and the brawls all have nice meaty, chaotic levels of emergence. Crow's Nest is all about how you engage the enemy. The Highway stage has at least two distinct bubbles of extremely choice based action... nearly every stage in the game does.
From my perspective the problems you're complaining about simply don't exist.
!BONUS EMBARRASING STRETCHPANIK POST! BE FATTITUDE FOR (prototype) GAINS!
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Thank you Rud13!
Your are officially my favourite IC member, for the whole day!
Halo is a travesty of a videogame, and frankly, while I should spend an entire paragraph saying so eloquently, I am lazy. SO let me say this.
Halo is godamned shit, of epic proportions.
People say it moved the genre forwards? It set it back at least a decade. maybe two decades.
I always compare it to Half Life, released years prior to it. Why do people praise a game that is beaten to a pulp by a game so much older than it?
Two guns. TWO FUCKING GUNS?! What the fuck is this? A NES game where I only have two buttons? Half Life 1 had like 20 weapons, which you carried AT THE SAME TIME. Read that sentence again Bungie, until you un derstand the words.
HL = 1 point
Halo = 0
The flood. WTF is this? Wolfenstein 3D? Where the hell is the AI people talk about? Rubbish! Half Life 1 had varied enemies, with either good AI (marines), or were not infinite and annoying (headcrab zombies are better than flood zombies).
HL = 2 points
Halo = -1 (yeah, I hate the flood THAT much)
Saving. Thank you Bungie, you auto-saved right when I am out of ammo, in the middle of nowhere, low on health and surrounded by a million enemies. Half Life has manual quick saving. For the WIN!
HL = 3 points
Halo = -1 (I should remove another point here, but I'm being generous.)
Level design. Levels in Halo? WTF is this? Goldeneye? HL had one giant complex, which improved the flow of the game. The pacing was crap a sresult in Halo, not to mention infuritatingly difficult in most places.
HL = 4 points
Halo = -1
Co-op characters. Could you control the marines in Halo? I don't think you could. Very annoying. But there were many of them. HL had useful allies that aided with puzzles. OK. Even ground here.
HL = 5 points
Halo = 0 (could Halo be making a comeback?)
Interactive environments. In HL, an OLDER game, I could blow up boxes, chairs, desks, glass, all kinds of cool stuff. In Halo, there was nothing. I could fire a freakin rocket into a trash can, and NOTHING would happen! How much crack were Bungie smoking? What did they do? Outsource all their programmers to central Bahgdad? Why the hell couldn't they add some interactivity to the environment?!
HL = 6 points
Halo = -1 (this is an Xbox game for gods sake!)
Vehicles. HL had those railroad things on the tracks.... Halo had really cool vehicles. Damn, and I was hoping Halo would finish this content with negative numbers.
HL = 6 points
Halo = 1 (yeah, I am being very generous here and giving it 2 points)
Conclusion:
Despite the cool vehicles, Halo still sucks. The AI is non-existent, and the enemies rely on sheer brute force to get by. The environments are not interactive. The flood is annoying. The auto-saving is broken. The two weapons thing is quite possibly the most idiotic decision in the history of gaming. EVER. Utter, utter rubbish. And a disgrace to gaming.
Why does everyone love it?
For the record, I have never played Halo multiplayer (multiplayer at my house is either Monkeyball or Saturn Bomberman). |
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Marshmallow
just call him badass
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:49 am |
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| I agree with James. |
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:52 am |
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HAHAHAHA SCHEPAKIAK or whatever.
James, I love the double scarab fight. I love that I've improvised/panicked my way through that fight a ton, and it is still fun. |
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bloody heartland
banned
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:59 am |
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Yeah, when I get some more scratch together we need to brohammer the shit out of that. It feels like an apology of sorts for the drab scarab battle in Halo 2.
True fact: one of my most dearly held wishes for fanservice in Halo 3 was that Master Chief and Arbiter end up fighting back to back against the flood. When they struck that pose, I wanted to hug the Xbox, with my penis. |
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Marshmallow
just call him badass
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:59 am |
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| Man, I actually get along well with John, but he really missed the point in that post. |
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:01 am |
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Silent Cartographer may be scripted a whole bunch, but you sure can speed run the fuck out of it if you know what you're doing.
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WarpZone
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:37 am |
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| bloody heartland wrote: |
| [SC is scripted to high fuck - clear the beach head, spawn a warthog, reach this point, spawn an elite, go back up, new things have spawned. There's room for improvisation but the stage direction is strict. |
This is true, but I think what Maztorre was (partly?) getting at is there's more of an illusion of freedom that occurs in the 'downtime' between these points than most levels. The circular map and multiple entry/exit points from the center of the island (which also make the indoor/outdoor divide seem more natural than most levels) give you a little more breathing room, and so it feels like you stumble across battles rather than walk into calculated ones, even if that's the case. Basically, most of the series does get away with levels that are just a clear succession of rooms because the combat is strong and dynamic enough that any macro-level structure might be irrelevant, but SC does a few interesting things with that which make the scenario more memorable than most.
| bloody heartland wrote: |
| The core hook of Halo was big epic battles, emergent battle flow, limited guns, small ground forces of allies, and Things You Can Pilot. |
Agreed, although I'd also add AI personalities that dynamically interact with each other, something that goes from the initial comic relief of scattering grunts to actual strategy you can take advantage of, highlighted in the multi-faction conflicts towards the end that throw everyone into a blender and press mix. But that's a dimension virtually absent from the third game that could have probably given the later sections even grander impact and a more effective way of summing up the series.
The double scarab battle and such have a great sense of scale and emergence but I never got that feeling of hell breaking loose from Halo 1. Actually, I kept waiting for a three or four-way battle, assuming either the Flood would start pouring in while fighting Covenant or the elites would betray the chief (their formidable standing in the enemy roster thanks to recharging shields was missed), but it never happened.
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Dark Age Iron Savior
king of finders
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Location: Spacecraft, Juanelia Country
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:10 am |
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I am therefore assuming no one played Halo PC.
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Marshmallow
just call him badass
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:29 am |
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| I played it! It was better on Xbox, thanks to a rather shoddy port. Plus no co-op. |
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Dracko
a sapphist fool
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:50 am |
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I played it on PC also.
What went wrong with the port? I'm not sure I noticed anything.
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Marshmallow
just call him badass
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:53 am |
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| Well, no co-op, it was incredibly poorly optimised, and was pretty much a straight port, with no effort put into adapting it to the new control scheme, when the original game was very heavily engineered for the xbox controller. |
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:24 am |
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Eh, I had no trouble using a mouse and keyboard for Halo. Left mouse button to shoot, right to melee, E or whatever key you like for grenades. Yeah, it all felt pretty okay to me.
Also the multiplayer had a few pretty cool maps that were PC exlusive.
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| internisus wrote: |
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108
fairy godmilf
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: oakland, california
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:37 am |
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i think the thread title is missing a word :(
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Marshmallow
just call him badass
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:22 am |
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| Mr. Mechanical wrote: |
Eh, I had no trouble using a mouse and keyboard for Halo. Left mouse button to shoot, right to melee, E or whatever key you like for grenades. Yeah, it all felt pretty okay to me.
Also the multiplayer had a few pretty cool maps that were PC exlusive. |
It added a problem to multiplayer. They didn't alter the auto-aim at all, so online a person only needs to hit around the torso and higher to get a headshot with a sniper rifle. That kinda blew! There were better games to play online on the PC though, THANK GOODNESS.
Guys, let's talk about why Halo 2 sucks.
ADDED LAME BOSS FIGHTS
MANAGED TO LOOK WORSE THAN THE FIRST GAME
ADDED ANNOYING SCRIPTED SEQUENCES
ADDING FUCKING ANNOYING SNIPER RIFLE BITS
LAMED UP THE STORY FOR MAXIMUM CRAPNESS
REALLY BLAND LEVEL DESIGN THAT DIDNT MAKE FOR INTERESTING GUNPLAY
OTHER SHIT I CAN'T REMEMBER |
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:42 am |
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| Cycle wrote: |
Guys, let's talk about why Halo 2 sucks.
ADDED LAME BOSS FIGHTS
MANAGED TO LOOK WORSE THAN THE FIRST GAME
ADDED ANNOYING SCRIPTED SEQUENCES
ADDING FUCKING ANNOYING SNIPER RIFLE BITS
LAMED UP THE STORY FOR MAXIMUM CRAPNESS
REALLY BLAND LEVEL DESIGN THAT DIDNT MAKE FOR INTERESTING GUNPLAY
OTHER SHIT I CAN'T REMEMBER |
INVISIBLE WALLS
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| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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WarpZone
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:44 am |
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BUGGY
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:14 pm |
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| Cycle wrote: |
| Well, no co-op, it was incredibly poorly optimised, and was pretty much a straight port, with no effort put into adapting it to the new control scheme, when the original game was very heavily engineered for the xbox controller. |
No co-op is the biggest one. Really, Halo is a game meant to be enjoyed with a bro. The reason Halo 3 is my favorite in the series is that it allowed me to enjoy it with 3 bros. And to make up shit as we went along, usually one of us running too far ahead, screaming about dying, and the rest of us bailing him out, or some such. God such good times. |
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:14 pm |
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| Cycle wrote: |
| Mr. Mechanical wrote: |
Eh, I had no trouble using a mouse and keyboard for Halo. Left mouse button to shoot, right to melee, E or whatever key you like for grenades. Yeah, it all felt pretty okay to me.
Also the multiplayer had a few pretty cool maps that were PC exlusive. |
It added a problem to multiplayer. They didn't alter the auto-aim at all, so online a person only needs to hit around the torso and higher to get a headshot with a sniper rifle. That kinda blew! There were better games to play online on the PC though, THANK GOODNESS.
Guys, let's talk about why Halo 2 sucks.
ADDED LAME BOSS FIGHTS
MANAGED TO LOOK WORSE THAN THE FIRST GAME
ADDED ANNOYING SCRIPTED SEQUENCES
ADDING FUCKING ANNOYING SNIPER RIFLE BITS
LAMED UP THE STORY FOR MAXIMUM CRAPNESS
REALLY BLAND LEVEL DESIGN THAT DIDNT MAKE FOR INTERESTING GUNPLAY
OTHER SHIT I CAN'T REMEMBER |
I thought you'd explain why you think multiplayer is worse in Halo 2. :( None of these apply there, especially the "look worse" one. Halo 1 multiplayer looks like a bunch of huge polygons got barfed onto the screen.
You're right about the single player though for sure! I'll throw in a complaint about the level where you stand in an elevator for 2 minutes then enemies come trickling in, you kill them, then you wait another 2 minutes for the elevator to stop. It's just terribly paced. Oh yeah! And that annoying texture pop-in during the pre-rendered cutscenes where they obviously already know what's going to happen and could have masked it!
-Wes
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Teflon
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:51 pm |
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| TALKING PLANT |
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Tokyo Rude
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Location: I'm on the phone Derrick!
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:27 pm |
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Just played the Silent Cartographer. I guess it's pretty good. This thread is doing well.
Was too lazy to correct the thread title. |
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:29 pm |
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| Rudie, if you can, get someone who is easily startled to play through the flood parts with you. No, really, it makes them at least 50 times more funny. |
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Greng
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, Engerland
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:44 pm |
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| bloody heartland wrote: |
| Greng wrote: |
| I enjoyed the library level most... don't think ANYONE liked that bit but me. Relentless waves of flood; good times. |
rocketlauncher for the win, greng |
"rawket lawn chair"
I'll give it a go. Right after I pop down to Tescos Express for some Brown Ales. Will report on my progress
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Greng
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, Engerland
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:46 pm |
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Wait, I don't even remember a rocket launcher... trickster.
'nades might do it
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:02 pm |
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| Dude, the rocket lawnchair is great. The SPNKR. |
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Tokyo Rude
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Location: I'm on the phone Derrick!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:05 pm |
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| Woah hey the stage after Silent Cartographer. That repetitive ness is getting to me. |
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Option2
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: So. Cali
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:56 pm |
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| This game is fun I always find myself going back to it on the PC just to run and shoot around, can't get enough! |
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bruin
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:52 pm |
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| Tokyo Rude wrote: |
| Woah hey the stage after Silent Cartographer. That repetitive ness is getting to me. |
But that part when you go outside after corridoring forever and there's a Wraith and some bitches on your right and injured Marines with ammo and a flipped Warthog on your left and a couple turrets in front of you and a couple Ghosts flying around is pretty much the best part of the game
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:17 pm |
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| bruin wrote: |
| Tokyo Rude wrote: |
| Woah hey the stage after Silent Cartographer. That repetitive ness is getting to me. |
But that part when you go outside after corridoring forever and there's a Wraith and some bitches on your right and injured Marines with ammo and a flipped Warthog on your left and a couple turrets in front of you and a couple Ghosts flying around is pretty much the best part of the game |
Yeah that part and the part at the end where you reach that land bridge in front of the pyramid that the control room is in, with the wraith below and the banshees above, easily the two best parts of the level. They're the reasons I replayed that level so many times, I still love assaulting the control room pyramid to this day.
Plus the level right after that one is pretty good too, where they introduce the Flood! Up until that point I had settled into a nice groove with the game, and then they switched it up on me with the new enemy type.
The Library is good as a Doom throwback but it's really too long for it's own good. The level design was actually different initially, there were supposed to be places where you could see more of the whole level around the elevators and from there be able to tell how it all fit together, but they ran out of time and couldn't get it to work at a decent framerate so they changed it to what it is now.
The last three levels are all retreads of previous levels but they're still fun to play because the Flood are battling the Covenant throughout and you're just one cyborg space marine caught up in the middle of it.
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| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Tokyo Rude
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Location: I'm on the phone Derrick!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:25 pm |
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God no that section with the landbridge sucks ass I can't manage to make it past that first door ever. I open the door then the two banshees come up and shoot me to death. Going in and out the door feels way too much like cheating and if that's "The way you play the game" then that's a crock of shit. Then the game deleted my save and fuck if I'm going to play that level again.
Thus ends my time with Halo. |
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bloody heartland
banned
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:17 pm |
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| That wasn't a very intelligent or compelling post rudders. |
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manmachine plays jazz
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:43 pm |
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| halo is a bad game because i don't want to take cover when fighting two airplanes with small arms fire |
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Mr Mustache
Mean Mr. Mustache
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Bushwick
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:14 pm |
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Let's not blame the victim.
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:48 pm |
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| Tokyo Rude wrote: |
God no that section with the landbridge sucks ass I can't manage to make it past that first door ever. I open the door then the two banshees come up and shoot me to death. Going in and out the door feels way too much like cheating and if that's "The way you play the game" then that's a crock of shit. Then the game deleted my save and fuck if I'm going to play that level again.
Thus ends my time with Halo. |
Just jump off the bridge and onto the thin part of the pyramid that runs underneath it. You can skip that whole other indoor segment and the ground segment below completely this way.
But since it deleted your save and you aren't going to play anymore maybe now would be a good time to try Marathon?
edit-Thanks Cuba.
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| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
True Doom Murder Junkies - Updated On Occasion
Last edited by Mr. Mechanical on Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:21 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Touran
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:56 pm |
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| manmachine plays jazz wrote: |
| halo is a bad game because i don't want to take cover when fighting two airplanes with small arms fire |
I don't see a button for cover, so why should I do that? (And how!?)
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Man, I'm sorry. |
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