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player controlled agents

 
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dark steve
secretary of good times


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: long live the new flesh

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:11 am    Post subject: player controlled agents    Reply with quote

You might want to glance at this first.

Tonight in #IRC, we were discussing this wiki article, formerly "spherical_protagonists." Vision was updating it and ran into a stumbling block: during the course of deciding where various games fall in this category, it got clear pretty fast that "there is no concise term for something that is a player controlled agent (besides 'the main guy')." In Marble Madness, you manipulate the little ball yourself, whereas in Cameltry, you (mostly) just rotate the maze; in Sonic Spinball, you perform the majority of your interaction with flippers. So then, presuming that these objects are all in fact the same kind of entity, what is that entity, exactly?
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Gironika



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Dragon Range

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:20 pm        Reply with quote

Quote:
An agent differs from a player in that player slots inherently require humans to fill them. Without a human player, the game is (in effect) a screen saver). Even with AI filling the holes, the game is still a screen saver. A videogame must be imbued with a human component and understanding for it to be an actual videogame—otherwise it’s just an electronic rulebook, or a bunch of executable code.

so if it's about the AI being responsible for moving agents around, could FF12 then be considered a screen saver, assuming you make excessive use of the gambits?
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Broco



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Headquarters

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:26 pm        Reply with quote

Well, bottom line, the player controls a dozen or so values which, at every frame, are pressed or not pressed (or, for analog inputs, at a certain point along a continuum). That's the way the player appears at the hardware level. Anything higher-level you come up with will encompass some but not all games.
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dark steve
secretary of good times


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: long live the new flesh

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:17 pm        Reply with quote

c'mon dudes take a stab
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oligophagy



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:59 pm        Reply with quote

i would call them children or pets. the former's apt especially as most cultures conceive of children as somewhat autonomous though still depedent and as not responsible (morally or however) for their behavior.

the distinguishing features seem to be that, though the character is not directly controlled, the player has a monopoly on influences AND the wellbeing or state of the character is of direct concern to the player. hence children. or pets. or whatever.
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haze
la belle poney sans merci


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:31 pm        Reply with quote

"THE USER"

he lives outside the net
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dmauro



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Broker

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:48 am        Reply with quote

Avatar
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bort



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Are you related to Bandai and Namco takes of games Sent from my iPhone

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:35 am        Reply with quote

ic wiki wrote:
An avatar may not be controlled by a player. It may be controlled by an AI Agent.

I think this is backwards!

Hindu avatars are incarnations of gods.

Forum avatars are representations of humans.

The term avatar in these and most every other definition I have seen implies that there is something of human (or higher) consciousness behind it, or at the very least a foreign influence. Artificial intelligence is not human, not conscious, and is a part of the game system. There are about a billion other terms that could be used to describe AI objects (for one, "objects") more accurately and without contradicting other definitions. Also, the term's most famous use in games is as the title of the player character in the Ultima series.

I wrote this horribly and cannot think today, but in short I do not know where one would get the idea the term would apply to anything BUT player characters (PS: I realize there is no established gaming lexicon but it still doesn't make any sense).

Also in a lot of games (RPGs for example, lots of puzzle games) you do not control a (physical) object or character at all. Anything with substantial menu diving has you playing mostly as a cursor, and in tile-moving puzzle games (unless the player character is "all tiles") you play as the force that spins things around and moves them. Even "avatar" would be stretching it for these.
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dmauro



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Broker

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:22 am        Reply with quote

Yeah that IC wiki definition is a bit wrong. An avatar is just an embodiment or personification, but the AI isn't personified as an in-game character, so much as it IS the in-game character. Maybe not technically, but there's not the distinction between player character and that which controls it that there is between the player and a player character.
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parkbench



Joined: 12 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:31 am        Reply with quote

player controlled agent sounds pretty good. avatar works in most cases except when, as you noted, you're controlling the movement of the terrain, and in that case the mental image just doesn't fit. it has to work in every scenario, so that phrase alone works fine i think.
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Judge Ito



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: IA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:25 am        Reply with quote

I was hoping this would be a thread about The Crossing.
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