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[ Poll ] Presidential elections over!! W00t!!
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Internetics



Joined: 19 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:59 pm        Reply with quote

Floridaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

Governer Crist is extending the polling hour (we can vote early in this state) to 12 hours a day on weekdays. 7am to 7pm. It's a nightmare, let me tell you. There are reports of waiting 2-3 hours on average and 4 hours in some Miami places. So far, 1.2 million votes have been cast (majority Obama) and if these early vote numbers are any indication, heads will roll tuesday and chaos-

CHAOS WILL BREAK OUT!!! Roving bands of disenfranchised voters that waited 6 hours in line will take to the streets turning over cars and demanding their vote be taken. Everybody panic!!
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:46 pm        Reply with quote

negativedge wrote:
The classroom at that point is less about learning and more about...you know, getting work done. Creating, discovering, etc.

"Getting work done" is the only learning there is.

Quote:
In public schools, the most important things you can teach is not the subject matter--regardless of what it is, the majority of the subjects are not genuinely interested in it--but basic skill sets that allow individualism to flourish. Teach kids how to think and learn on their own, how to ask and propose intelligent questions, how to develop and deliver useful arguments, how to explore their interests, etc, etc, etc.

None of those latter skills can be developed in a vacuum - claiming they can be is a symptom of public schooling and professional teaching as it stands today. They all can and must be learned in a context (as there is no such thing as any physical activity, including learning, being done without context), and as we've all seen, a context the student doesn't give a crap about won't produce any results in developing these "basic skills."

Another way to put it is that those "basic skills" aren't basic at all - they're the end of education. Learning chemistry or Transcendentalist literature or carpentry is the means. But of course the teachers won't be able to teach those ultimate lessons through the context without a basic, personal, intimate appreciation of the context.

Quote:
No kid cares about your degrees or what papers you have published.

If you think this is what I mean you haven't read a word I've said. Amateurs should and ought to be teachers. But a secondary school teaching certificate is no substitute for, say, an enthusiasm for a subject - an enthusiasm that extends into the teacher's personal life. Any other "enthusiasm" is false.
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negativedge
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:10 pm        Reply with quote

I'd rather the enthusiasm be for teaching than for the subject at hand, and my experiences in school bore that out. Kids don't care about the subjects being taught. Seriously. They don't give a fuck. Sure, each class will have one or two people that might care about any given subject, but that's really about it. That care might go away in a month, because they're kids. A teacher that only really, truly cares about his subject matter is simply out of touch and will only affect those rare students that are already primed and ready to be affected. And you know what? Those kids will be fine no matter who is teaching them. They're going to have a 4.0 GPA, they're going to spend their free time delving into the subject matter regardless. The only thing High School can do to them is fuck them up.

For the rest of us, Mr. Mathy McMatherson's feverish hardon for polynumerals isn't going to translate to anything if he's not bringing other, more pertinent skillsets to the table.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:14 pm        Reply with quote

negativedge wrote:
For the rest of us, Mr. Mathy McMatherson's feverish hardon for polynumerals isn't going to translate to anything if he's not bringing other, more pertinent skillsets to the table.

That's a different problem. You're right, if a kid doesn't care about math nobody is going to make him. That's not an argument for making the math teacher NOT care about math. What else can he care about? The point of my argument is that it's metaphysically impossible for him to teach a child a skillset by some magical hypersubject that transcends the petty processes of mathematics and gets to the REAL MEAT of education like self-respect and critical thinking and whatever.

It's just an argument for not forcing the kid to learn math.
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negativedge
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:07 am        Reply with quote

Yeah, that's true, I'd rather education be more individualized, non compulsory and all that stuff, but we well know both my feelings and yours on that subject. We're mainly in agreement. The argument is how to go about dealing with the terrible system we've got. I think you do what you can to provide kids with a broader skillset that sets them up for critical success later on. This obviously doesn't mean Mr. Math here is going to stop teaching math. That's not practical or even useful. I just think he should tailor his style to emphasize the subject less than the thought process. The means rather than the end. He shouldn't be teaching if he's more interested in the subject than in the advancement of his students, because they are not going to advance themselves by proxy of his specialized expertise. This changes as you move up the educational ladder and school becomes more akin to work. The professor is not a caretaker, and he does and should assume both a certain skillset and an interest in the subject matter, which allows for actual learning. High School is simply a different world.
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GcDiaz



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Clinton, MA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:59 am        Reply with quote

Anyone else catch the infomercial? I liked what I saw, but then that's the whole point. George Washington could still decide in the booth.
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Felix
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Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:07 am        Reply with quote

I saw Gene Glass give a talk today in which he pretty much said that we have no option but to carry on exactly as we have been doing with public education, and throw money at charter schools.
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BalbanesBeoulve
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Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:43 am        Reply with quote

GcDiaz wrote:
Anyone else catch the infomercial? I liked what I saw, but then that's the whole point. George Washington could still decide in the booth.


I ODed on hopium.
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CubaLibre
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:46 am        Reply with quote

Felix wrote:
I saw Gene Glass give a talk today in which he pretty much said that we have no option but to carry on exactly as we have been doing with public education, and throw money at charter schools.

On a practical level, this is basically my conclusion. The only thing you can do is do the best with your own children. The system is far too entrenched with every other system to root it out now. But maybe I'm just lazy.

The infomerical was tedious. I was actually having more fun finishing up Shivering Isles as I was listening to it in the background and when Oblivion is beating your presentation you know you've got a problem.
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108
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:12 am        Reply with quote

already voted over here

voted like a week ago
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negativedge
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:11 am        Reply with quote

probably not voting, honestly
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Lestrade
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Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:55 am        Reply with quote

I wish all my American brethren a happy voting day. I hope to hell it goes well!
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Family Computer



Joined: 17 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:33 pm        Reply with quote

I predict riots in all major American cities.
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GcDiaz



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:18 pm        Reply with quote

If Obama wins? If he loses? If he doesn't live to see the day?
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extrabastardformula
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Joined: 01 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:39 pm        Reply with quote

i really don't think it matters what the result is, except if what the people rioting look like matters to you.
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DonMarco
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:30 am        Reply with quote

negativedge wrote:
probably not voting, honestly

You and half of all potential US citizens. These races are so close every year, you ever wonder what would happen in another 110 million votes get cast?

Imagine you're on a bus filled with 40-50 people going on some cross-country trip. One day the guide stands up and asks over the intercom:

"At the next stop is McDonalds and Taco Bell. Show of hands for McDonalds? ... Taco Bell? ... Okay then"

You'd be damned certain that everyone would raise their hand one way or another. And its for something so fucking stupid and fleeting as a fast food lunch. Not the face of America, the commander in chief, the economic and political direction of the US-fucking-A for the next 4 years. Yeah, why bother with that, negativedge?

extrabastardformula wrote:
i really don't think it matters what the result is, except if what the people rioting look like matters to you.

If half the city parties and half the city riots, the cops will be all over the rioters, leaving the hot liberal chicks to hang out with us getting drunk and excessively lucky! Awesome!
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negativedge
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:12 am        Reply with quote

I'm "not bothering with that" for a variety of reasons. I've probably thought about this election more than 90% of the people that actual are voting. I don't like our system, I don't like our parties, I don't like either candidate enough, and I don't feel massively informed enough to cast an intelligent ballot despite those hangups. I don't buy the hype about this being an "important election." I don't enjoy how inanely polarizing politics has become, despite, or maybe even because of, the vast similarities between our two parties. I don't like the way campaigns are run. I think both of these men would quietly murder my family if it gave them the white house. I believe my non vote means more than an actual vote would.

Most of all, I don't feel like I have to explain or validate myself to anyone. It's a fucking farce. A joke of a system. Get it out of my face.
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Felix
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:15 pm        Reply with quote

That still doesn't justify not voting for the guy who has a really great chance of beating McCain and being a black G8 leader, dude.
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Predator Goose



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:53 pm        Reply with quote

Show extralife the don't vote commercial. That'll change his tune, won't it.
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Lurky
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:58 pm    Post subject: penis doodle 08    Reply with quote

In Canada we count the number of spoiled ballots, I assume the U.S does the same thing. If you feel the system sucks, doodle a penis on a ballot. A non vote means nothing, it's assumed to be apathy. It's assumed you didn't bother to show up. A spoiled ballot shows you were willing to show up, but not to vote.
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Isfet



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:52 pm        Reply with quote

i would do this if we wrote on ballots.
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psiga
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Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: penis doodle 08    Reply with quote

Lurky wrote:
A spoiled ballot shows you were willing to show up, but not to vote.

I wonder how one spoils a digital vote.

Felix wrote:
...the guy who has a really great chance of beating McCain and being a black G8 leader, dude.

Half-black G8 leader, yo.

KubaLibre wrote:
The point of my argument is that it's metaphysically impossible for him to teach a child a skillset by some magical hypersubject that transcends the petty processes of mathematics and gets to the REAL MEAT of education like self-respect and critical thinking and whatever.

Man, at first I was all heyyy from talk of metaphysical hypersubjects, but then I read your sentence for comprehension, and was :\
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:36 pm        Reply with quote

DonMarco wrote:
negativedge wrote:
probably not voting, honestly

You and half of all potential US citizens. These races are so close every year, you ever wonder what would happen in another 110 million votes get cast?

Imagine you're on a bus filled with 40-50 people going on some cross-country trip. One day the guide stands up and asks over the intercom:

"At the next stop is McDonalds and Taco Bell. Show of hands for McDonalds? ... Taco Bell? ... Okay then"

You'd be damned certain that everyone would raise their hand one way or another. And its for something so fucking stupid and fleeting as a fast food lunch. Not the face of America, the commander in chief, the economic and political direction of the US-fucking-A for the next 4 years. Yeah, why bother with that, negativedge?

Marco you know the marginal utility of one vote among 40-50 is immensely larger than one vote among 300 million (or more properly the population of your state) so don't play this silly little false equivalency game.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: penis doodle 08    Reply with quote

psiga wrote:
KubaLibre wrote:
The point of my argument is that it's metaphysically impossible for him to teach a child a skillset by some magical hypersubject that transcends the petty processes of mathematics and gets to the REAL MEAT of education like self-respect and critical thinking and whatever.

Man, at first I was all heyyy from talk of metaphysical hypersubjects, but then I read your sentence for comprehension, and was :\

I think it's pretty self-explanatory. I say there's no way to teach people the true ends of education (self-sufficiency, self-respect, self-knowledge) in some direct, abstract way. They can only be led to it by thoroughly confronting some real-world subject.
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:43 pm        Reply with quote


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psiga
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: penis doodle 08    Reply with quote

CubaLibre wrote:
I say there's no way to teach people the true ends of education (self-sufficiency, self-respect, self-knowledge) in some direct, abstract way. They can only be led to it by thoroughly confronting some real-world subject.

It remains the most effective method, basically, yeah.
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extrabastardformula
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:53 pm        Reply with quote


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Dracko
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:34 pm        Reply with quote


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negativedge
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:41 pm    Post subject: Re: penis doodle 08    Reply with quote

Lurky wrote:
In Canada we count the number of spoiled ballots, I assume the U.S does the same thing. If you feel the system sucks, doodle a penis on a ballot. A non vote means nothing, it's assumed to be apathy. It's assumed you didn't bother to show up. A spoiled ballot shows you were willing to show up, but not to vote.


I probably am still actually going to go down there and vote for ballot issues and shit. Maybe I can write SUCK MY DICK in for president, I don't know.
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DonMarco
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:52 am        Reply with quote

I voted today. Grabbed some $4.50 worth of Taco Bell goodness and sat down with a Bachman book, The Regulators, around 10:27am. The line inched forward and the weather was damn near perfect. Cool, cloudy with no wind. Great Florida weather in the winter, I tell you what. Spoke to some people in fron and behind me and got damn near 60 pages in to the book.

I verified myself with a picture ID to the poll workers and started inking in my answers at 1:35pm. I left the library at 1:40 and was home by 2:00.

I don't know how long lines will be election day, but I have a class at 10 in the morning. So even if it was only 2 hours, I would have to be standing in line at 7 to be out safely with enough time to bike to the college (which is less that 3 miles from the poling place, so that's cool. But! That's assuming they will only be 2 hours. One hour seems mighty optimistic at this point, and there are a fuck ton of old people in the city that wake up at 4am and have nothing better to do with their time than go vote.

BAH! It's over. I don't have to watch CNN or read the news sites or keep up to date on what who said where at the when time. Nothing but C homework and Fallout 3.

Had some plum wine, half a bottle.
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DonMarco
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:06 am        Reply with quote

CubaLibre wrote:
Marco you know the marginal utility of one vote among 40-50 is immensely larger than one vote among 300 million (or more properly the population of your state) so don't play this silly little false equivalency game.

You got a point there, Libra. Except that EVERY vote cast is a marginal vote. It's only after the hands go up, points tallied, rocks counted that the majority is discovered.

But that's the beauty of democracy. My meaningless vote means as much as Bill Gate's vote. It's as powerful a vote as Bill Clinton's. As defining as the vote cast by Hobo Mike under the overpass. It's exactly as gorgeous as Tiger Wood's vote. It's the great equalizer that levels the playing field when it comes to politics on the national, regional, state and local levels.

Yes, everyone's vote is so insignificant in changing the outcome of a poll of 100+ million... So you can either accept this and not vote, or you can accept this and vote. There are those that vote with a twinkle in their eye and a delusion in their heart, but why bother them? They're happy thinking their vote counts. When really, it's more like their vote helps.

If the country is in the shit, the people can actually change that. If the country is in a 7-year old war of Iraq with no end in sight the people can change that. If the economy is tanking, causing collapses at home and overseas... Yeah, the people can't do that much but it's better than nothing. Every president has challenges and problems to face, both known and unknown. Every presidency is chosen by people with nothing better to do with a few hours of their week than vote for the next four years of nation and internation policy.
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psiga
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:54 am        Reply with quote

That was so patriotic, Marco. It conjured images of strapping bottlerockets to eagles. God bless America.
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Talbain



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:36 am        Reply with quote

I used to think my vote just killed trees, but now since it's online I realize that it just wastes electricity.
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psiga
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:06 pm        Reply with quote

Oh man, they made a sequel to the Don't Vote ad. It's almost five minutes long, the new one. At first I found it funny, but then they got serious, and it went downhill again.
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:16 pm        Reply with quote

psiga wrote:
Oh man, they made a sequel to the Don't Vote ad. It's almost five minutes long, the new one. At first I found it funny, but then they got serious, and it went downhill again.

Link?
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psiga
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:42 pm        Reply with quote

Didn't want to; it was so bad.

Fine, though.



Bleh.
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gambrinus



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:02 pm        Reply with quote

My view on the voting thing is that I do so because I want my demographic represented. People aren't going to bother to try and win your vote if you're part of a demographic that doesn't vote - which pretty much means young people. The frickin AARP members are the ones determining our leaders most of the time. If you're young and you think your views on politics aren't quite the same as your grandmother's, even if you happen to support the same candidate, you need to go vote to show that you're worth being in the discussion. Fuck the soccer moms and fuck the retirees.
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evnvnv
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:56 pm        Reply with quote

psiga wrote:
Didn't want to; it was so bad.

Fine, though.



Bleh.


at least they got harrison ford to do the finger pointing thing
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CubaLibre
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:41 pm        Reply with quote

GET OFF MY BOOTH
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:26 pm        Reply with quote

"I'm voting because I want a voice."

Hey, next time someone comes up to you and threatens you with a protection racket, how about you just do what everyone else does what they tell you to do and jot along a fucking survey form? I mean, you've already had it banged into your head repeatedly that this is making a difference. And everyone else is doing it! Look at all these cool kids telling you what to do! Don't you want to be just like them? Don't you want to have that kind of authority and power?

Don't be surprised if you still get regularly beaten, coerced into doing shit you don't believe in, oh, and have your money still taken from you.

The more I look at it, the more convinced I grow that this system isn't the one we actually want: It's the one we so fucking deserve for being so ridiculously short-sighted and willingly castrated.
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spinach
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:33 pm        Reply with quote

I love you Dracko
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