Virtual Console for Game Level Evolution

Faithless · Wendy's Hole Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: World 1-1

I've been involved enough with the emulator scene to know that the VC isn't new. What is new for me and my empty wallet is the chance to play classics on my Television with a Controller, a feature that my poor ol' computer simply can't manage without disgusting refresh rates. I haven't forgotten about Super Mario Bros. or Sonic; they look pixel-fantastic on my monitor via ZSnes or GENS or whatever it is that makes Sonic happen -- you know, the blast processor emulator, err, whatever.

BUT, regardless of how many games I've emulated on my PC, there's no game-familiarity when playing them on my Dell CRT. I need a couch and a good controller to feel like I'm really doing some good video-gaming. I'm not satisfied by the Wii VC output, but it feels like I'm actually playing the games, as opposed to emulating the roms. I know, it's in my head. But that's the deal.

Anyway, the Wii has exposed me to a new type of gaming. It's like YouTubing the titles -- I play one level for each VC game I've purchased, until I've cycled through all of them, and then I shut down my Wii.

Suddenly, I'm really aware of how weird the N64 made the game experience. Playing NES Super Mario, there's a Beginning, Middle, End of each chapter. Same with Sonic, Gunstar Heroes, etc. But when I drop in Mario64, everything gets loose and ugly. The game may have been a revolution at the time, but I'm beginning to loathe the point where it comes up in my VC shuffle. SMB has a progression, a goal, a clear cut path that you follow, and thus is satisfying, one level at a time. Mario64 is not satisfying, if you play Star by Star.

Is that why Minigames are taking off? Perhaps the classic game is a set of minigames -- each level is a complete experience, whereas modern gaming is open-ended even when it's not a sandbox title?
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gooktime · Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: no

I've always enjoyed playing roms on the xbox!

I'm the same with Mario 64, it has always been a title I'd considered amongst my favourites and was the first VC game I grabbed, but now it kinda feels a little too unfocused precisely for those reasons.

GcDiaz · Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Clinton, MA

I submit that at least with sandbox-type games, it is not the games that have become unfocused, but ourselves. Whenever I try to play SM64 now, I can enjoy the game fine, but am put off by the fact that I've seen it all already. There's nothing new to discover, no un-met goals to strive for. I begin to lose interest for that reason. Compare that to when I first got the game, and those marathon sessions where I'd get stars 20 at a time, driven almost entirely by curiousity about the next part of the castle. I feel the same way when I play Gunstar Heroes on KEGA; I could play thru the game, relive the same exciting gameplay from way back, but for what? I haven't made it past the minecart stage.
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Let's bring sexy back!

Toups · tyranically banal Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Location: Ebon Keep

Cossix · Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:47 pm

That's not really a problem that's existed in most 3d games though, is it? I mean if you look at the first person shooter genre, sure they reuse a lot of enemy models (and sometimes they reuse prefabs), but there's not a lot of repetition in the level design. Also the Ratchet and Clank platformers didn't really have a whole lot of backtracking through the same part of the level unless you were hunting for optional stuff. They had several paths in the levels to complete other objectives, but that was about it really.

JamesE · banned Joined: 05 Dec 2006

Well, before Mario 64 took over there was a tyranny of linear games that held your hand at all times and enforced a strict program of events on you. Then suddenly you have this little pocket universe to play with as Mario and cannons to shoot out of and peaks to scale and flying hats and submarines and shell riding and there's this whole new outlet for your imagination to exploit instead of just abusing physics. Then four-to-five years later Grand Theft Auto 3 comes along and adds a ton of different playstyles, strategies and tools for the player to use. They should have saved virtual NYC for their third game, because there's probably not an urban environment on the earth more appealing.

Being pushed along a path is fine and all, but I have a tendency to want to dick around with games and do my own thing. The first few levels of Mario 64 were a complete revelation, and GTA 3 became something like a lifestyle - the atmosphere of running around the airport the night before my sociology exam, driving around to daft punk and the rave station as the sun came up. Linear gaming does that in limited doses and in limited terms - "Destroy Them All" is one of the greatest moments in gaming, but I'll never see it in any terms other than those that Gunstar Heroes presents to me, again and again. There's a balance to having the two types around. When I cause shit in GTA or do something cool with Mario or smash up some hulkbuster suits with style in Ultimate Destruction I know that's all me. I've got a rebellious gaming nature and an urge to do stunts and suchlike, so freeform really appeals to me. Level design is key though, and that's where the last bit of Mario 64 always lost me. The levels became so much more unfriendly and abstract.

I don't see why having something of substance on the Wii is undesirable, though - the lineup seems about as anemic as the first six months of my owning a DS, Zelda aside.

Toups · tyranically banal Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Location: Ebon Keep

SuperWes · Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: St. Louis, Missouri

JamesE · banned Joined: 05 Dec 2006

Faithless · Wendy's Hole Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: World 1-1

firenze · Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Bonus Round

Faithless · Wendy's Hole Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: World 1-1

I think I should clarify, I guess, that the games I'm playing are platformers -- although I guess Gunstar is more of an "action" game, whatever that means. Zelda is open-ended -- so is a game like Sim City. But that's not what I'm tackling on the VC every day.

Firenze, you're definitely not missing my point... I guess I'm just having difficulty articulating what my point is, beyond "SMB is more casual than SM64."
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firenze · Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Bonus Round

JamesE · banned Joined: 05 Dec 2006

Faithless · Wendy's Hole Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: World 1-1

JamesE · banned Joined: 05 Dec 2006

I'd define casual gaming as unforced gaming. Impulse buys over must-haves, mini games, doing things for the shit of it. In that sense Super Mario Bros has become a hardcore title, while SMB64's open ended nature allows for more casual play. I used to dick around with the cannons a lot.