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Drem
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: The Planet Bookshelves
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 Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:11 am Post subject: So so so Vista Vista Vista |
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So Vista is out! And it's pretty! Anyone have Vista? I will soon! Tomorrow! $15! Business Edition! Yay Academic Alliance!
But I'm not going to be installing it anytime soon. The largest problem at the moment is compatability, or the lack thereof. I think there aren't many Vista compatible drivers out yet for hardware like sounds cards and graphics cards. And I would like to be able to play my games! And some software too! So I'm holding off.
But you! Have you bought Vista? How is it? What do you think of Vista? How do you play wacky Japanese games on American Vista?
Let's talk about Vista!
P.S. I really haven't been keeping up on Vista's features and setbacks. But from $300 to $15? I can't pass that up. |
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:28 am |
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You have to keep us updated on the new minesweeper.
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True Doom Murder Junkies - Updated On Occasion |
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SplashBeats
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:32 am |
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| I'm pirating it to build ratio on a torrent site. I think this is against the law :( |
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Felix
unofficial repository
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: vancouver
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:52 am |
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| like like the the the death |
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108
fairy godmilf
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: oakland, california
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:30 am |
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windows vista more like windoze blista
more like winblows jizta
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Corinth
thatbox
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:43 am |
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I just bought a MacBook Pro and my Windows XP desktop streamlines my pirating, archiving, gaming, tv-watching and disk defragmenting activities quite nicely as it is.
I doubt I'll even be arrring Vista for quite a while. |
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psiga
saudade
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:05 am |
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What with all the embedded DRM and questionable compatibilities, I'm not gonna touch it for a while. May be able to get it cheap through my MS corporate whore / friend, if I want it. But I'd rather play with Linux than buy a new Windows.
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Mr. Business
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Hiding
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Corinth
thatbox
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:36 am |
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More rejoicing over cracked BD and HDDVD, though.
<3 1080p x264 |
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Pijaibros
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Casino Night Zone
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:37 am |
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| thatbox wrote: |
More rejoicing over cracked BD and HDDVD, though.
<3 1080p x264 |
Now to steal a television that can display that
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psiga
saudade
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:40 am |
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I read about that. It worries me, since unlike BD and HDDVD, this DRM can theoretically be updated by patches.
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CaineDNA
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:57 pm |
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I work at a retail store in their Apple department. We have a sign in the front of the store advertising Vista, picturing a mother and child combo apparently being "Wow"ed sitting in front of an iBook.
My favorite part of the day is people asking how well Vista will run on their new Mac. |
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showka
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:13 pm |
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LOL
But figuring out some way for the majority of the US population to use such a hack - even on content they bought and payed for - without subverting US law will be the real hack.
Fucking lobbyists. |
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gooktime
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: no
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:16 pm |
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psiga
saudade
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:23 pm |
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Yeah, some people were saying that the cost of buying the ultimate edition is so close to the cost of a mac mini that you may as well just stick with XP on the old PC and get yourself a shiny new OSX box on the side.
Most of us that are even daring to consider Vista are either getting hookups through incredible discounts, or are arr ARR arrrr.
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gooktime
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: no
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:41 pm |
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I bet it's a nightmare for tech support, though.
"Ah, yes, go to control pane.... wait, that's not in Home business premium suburbanite turbo edition..." |
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luvcraft
buy my game buy my game me me me
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Cobrastan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:18 pm |
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| psiga wrote: |
| What with all the embedded DRM and questionable compatibilities, I'm not gonna touch it for a while. |
As the tech for a hospital's Pathology department, this is pretty much what I've been telling the five people a day who ask me about Vista because they saw an ad for it on the teevee. |
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Craptastic!
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:00 pm |
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I've got an upgrade coming my way...maybe at the end of February through the "buy XP in some timeframe and we'll give you Vista for a nominal shipping fee of $30!". Given the OEM pricing, I should have just waited for Vista to come out first.
Regardless of one's feelings towards Windows Vista, this site featuring random Demitri Martin thoughts may not exist if they weren't interested in kind of advertising the OS...kind of. |
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Gironika
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Dragon Range
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:32 pm |
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Why should I upgrade just to be able to >use< a new OS? Since I'm not doing any gaming on my machine, I'll switch over to Ubuntu soon.
Clearly the better choice for me...
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skonrad
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Vizzyvancizzouver
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:04 pm |
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| Can anybody confirm the miserable performance with ATi cards in 3D apps (max/maya)? Tom's Hardware did a review that showed its speed to be about 1/9th what it should be, but they made no indication they'd installed the OGL driver... |
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Legal Step
honorary korean
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Christina Hendricks fun bags
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:18 pm |
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Vista must be good, because John Stewart had his head firmly implanted into Bill Gates ass when he was on The Daily Show. Unless I just happened to miss the 'tough questions' section.
Os X sounds good. I think I'll do that.
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Drem
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: The Planet Bookshelves
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:27 pm |
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| skonrad wrote: |
| Can anybody confirm the miserable performance with ATi cards in 3D apps (max/maya)? Tom's Hardware did a review that showed its speed to be about 1/9th what it should be, but they made no indication they'd installed the OGL driver... |
I hear that current drivers aren't up to par, and that they're mostly out just so you can have some drivers that work for Vista. Performance seems to vary from computer to computer. Most people report a small drop in performance on most 3D software, and that OpenGL applications work horrendously. Some people seem to not have any difference from normal with their computer, however.
Now that they've released these first drivers to make things work, they can start making drivers that make things work well. |
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showka
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:32 pm |
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| Legal Step wrote: |
Vista must be good, because John Stewart had his head firmly implanted into Bill Gates ass when he was on The Daily Show. Unless I just happened to miss the 'tough questions' section.
Os X sounds good. I think I'll do that. |
Don't call John Stewart a butt boy. You do that and he'll call you a dick.
Maybe he just doesn't stay informed with much Vista news to know anything to detract from the amount of good press Bill is getting with his charitable donations. Donations made with blood money! |
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skonrad
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Vizzyvancizzouver
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:05 pm |
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| Drem wrote: |
Now that they've released these first drivers to make things work, they can start making drivers that make things work well. |
I'm pretty reliant on Open GL, so yeah, not likely to update for a good while. I've heard some people at nVIDIA say Open GL won't ever be as fast as it is under XP, because of changes to the driver model. I'm not really sure how accurate this is, because when I say "I heard from people at nVIDIA" I mean I heard from someone who does work with a person in a sector of nVIDIA that doesn't write any of the card drivers. |
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BenoitRen
I bought RAM
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:29 am |
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Windows Vista is the ultimate crap.
-They again had to rape the interface and bloat it with tons of shiny effects, to the point of needing a fucking 3D gaming video card to display it well. Aero my ass.
-They bloated the OS even more so you now need 2 GB of RAM and 15 GB of HDD space just for it to run well. An OS is supposed to be an operating system that consumes the minimum of resources and support your applicaitions, not trying to be a jack-of-all-trades program! Death to the perpetual upgrade cycle!
-Now Windows will annoy you even more with the new User Access Control pop-ups! To be honest, this wasn't a bad idea, but its implementation sucks. It asks you about a lot of things you shouldn't need administrator priviledges for, or things that aren't really harmful!
-A lot of incompatibility. Sucky drivers. 'nuff said.
-Instead of only having DRM in Windows Media Player (which already sucked), now it's implemented in the entire OS to rub the backs of the multimedia industry and extract every possible nickel in your pocket. Joy!
I never liked XP for its toy look, restrictive behaviour, incompatibility with older games, and bloated back-end. Somehow, Microsoft managed to fuck up Windows even more. They're pretty skilled at doing that, I have to admit.
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Legal Step
honorary korean
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Christina Hendricks fun bags
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:40 am |
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This doesn't bode well for Longhorn, the other super secret OS, that has been in development even longer than Vista.
The problem with Windows is that nobody wants to trample on The Creator's ideas so everything gets piled on. Every extension of Windows is piled on to the previous version and so and so forth because to do something new different and leaner would require the support of the people they are fighting against.
This is a company that had to write 4 billion lines of code so a HD-DVD peripheral device could plug into Xbox360. Lean software isn't in their vocabulary.
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DaleNixon
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: dirty dirty south
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:47 am |
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You wouldn't believe what all I have running in only 146MiB of RAM right now.
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Broco
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Headquarters
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:16 am |
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I tried one of the late betas in September and I was generally pleased with it. It is pretty much a painless incremental upgrade that doesn't really add any major feature but makes everything a little prettier and a little easier to do. The only big problem with it is the activation and DRM. I am confident that these measures will be totally broken in short order by hardworking pirates, but still they represent something of an annoyance.
Also, the third-party application and driver support was terrible when I tried it, and it almost certainly still isn't up to par now. I would wait six months at the minimum before switching. There is no compelling reason to hurry anyway.
| Legal Step wrote: |
| This doesn't bode well for Longhorn, the other super secret OS |
Is this some kind of subtle joke or something? Longhorn was just the codename of Vista before its name was officially decided, much like say Nintendo Revolution.
| Legal Step wrote: |
| The problem with Windows is that nobody wants to trample on The Creator's ideas so everything gets piled on. Every extension of Windows is piled on to the previous version and so and so forth because to do something new different and leaner would require the support of the people they are fighting against. |
I don't know what you mean by "support of the people they are fighting against", but anyway the reason they do this is to avoid breaking old software as much as possible. This is a very very important issue for corporate customers, who don't want to hire a team of programmers to rewrite their internal software every three years. Along with the support for cheap generic hardware, this is the reason Windows dominates despite Mac OS X's (until now) technical superiority.
| BenoitRen wrote: |
| Windows Vista is the ultimate crap. |
This childish rant barely deserves to be dignified with a response, but anyway...
| BenoitRen wrote: |
| -They again had to rape the interface and bloat it with tons of shiny effects, to the point of needing a fucking 3D gaming video card to display it well. Aero my ass. |
What? No. Bog-standard el cheapo integrated motherboard video cards will do. All this GPU power has been around for years and you're complaining that an OS gets around to using it? Also, Vista's UI is just fine (and still better than XP's) if you turn Aero off.
| BenoitRen wrote: |
| -They bloated the OS even more so you now need 2 GB of RAM and 15 GB of HDD space just for it to run well. An OS is supposed to be an operating system that consumes the minimum of resources and support your applicaitions, not trying to be a jack-of-all-trades program! Death to the perpetual upgrade cycle! |
Attacking Windows for bloat is silly. All those new features have to go somewhere, and I'm not seeing Mac OS X or desktop Linux distributions doing it much more efficiently. And keeping around old APIs is still less resource-intensive than running your old software in an emulation layer like you have to do with Macs, or recompiling it like you have to do with Linux.
And people don't appreciate the kind of optimizations that Windows makes and that none of its competitors do. For example, XP and Vista boot hella fast: that's because of clever logging of what files are accessed at bootup and then defragging the disk to put all those files near each other. Vista now exploits flash memory on USB keys as faster virtual memory.
| BenoitRen wrote: |
| -Now Windows will annoy you even more with the new User Access Control pop-ups! To be honest, this wasn't a bad idea, but its implementation sucks. It asks you about a lot of things you shouldn't need administrator priviledges for, or things that aren't really harmful! |
Turn it off then. But you'd be an idiot and you know it.
| BenoitRen wrote: |
| I never liked XP for its toy look, restrictive behaviour, incompatibility with older games, and bloated back-end. |
Use the classic look then, what?, ack this is because of the vast improvement in architecture did you prefer the instability and general crappiness of Win9x?, and addressed above. |
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DaleNixon
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: dirty dirty south
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:25 am |
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| Broco wrote: |
| And people don't appreciate the kind of optimizations that Windows makes and that none of its competitors do. For example, XP and Vista boot hella fast: |
You've got to be fucking kidding me! I'll bring a stopwatch to work tomorrow and time my slow-ass XP and Vista images' boot times vs. Linux and OS X.
| Broco wrote: |
| that's because of clever logging of what files are accessed at bootup and then defragging the disk to put all those files near each other. |
And this is done automatically? You know, most modern journalized filesystems defragment on the fly... NTFS excluded.
| Broco wrote: |
| Vista now exploits flash memory on USB keys as faster virtual memory. |
I would keep far away from this. NAND Flash memory is not meant to be accessed like this. That sounds like a good way to kill your USB pen drive as they are not made to withstand intense amounts of reading/writing.
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Intentionally Wrong
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:26 am |
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| Broco wrote: |
| BenoitRen wrote: |
| -They again had to rape the interface and bloat it with tons of shiny effects, to the point of needing a fucking 3D gaming video card to display it well. Aero my ass. |
What? No. Bog-standard el cheapo integrated motherboard video cards will do. All this GPU power has been around for years and you're complaining that an OS gets around to using it? Also, Vista's UI is just fine (and still better than XP's) if you turn Aero off. |
So, is this Aero business the reason I want to turn off whatever light's causing all that glare every time I pass a desktop running Vista? I don't much like the idea of high-gloss interface elements.
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Broco
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Headquarters
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:43 am |
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| DaleNixon wrote: |
| You've got to be fucking kidding me! I'll bring a stopwatch to work tomorrow and time my slow-ass XP and Vista images' boot times vs. Linux and OS X. |
Actually I haven't tried running Linux and OS X on comparable hardware to what I run Windows on lately, I'm not sure exactly how they compare. I'd be interested in hearing the stopwatch times. I remember being very impressed with the boot time when I switched from W2K to XP, but maybe it's not so great anymore.
| DaleNixon wrote: |
| And this is done automatically? You know, most modern journalized filesystems defragment on the fly... NTFS excluded. |
Yes, you don't need to do anything special to turn it on. As for the other filesystems, sure but don't they just clump everything together randomly, not position things based on usage profiling?
| Broco wrote: |
| What in the hell? Are you positive on this? NAND Flash memory is not meant to be accessed like this. That sounds like a good way to kill your USB pen drive as they are not made to withstand intense amounts of reading/writing. |
Yeah, see the second-to-last entry here. My understanding is that the write limit on flash memory nowadays is comparable to hard drives, and this is no longer a problem. Note that there's another technology called "hybrid hard drives" coming down the pipeline where hard drives will include several gigabytes of flash as a cache, so it seems that flash's time to be used as a cache has arrived.
| Intentionally Wrong wrote: |
| So, is this Aero business the reason I want to turn off whatever light's causing all that glare every time I pass a desktop running Vista? I don't much like the idea of high-gloss interface elements. |
Nah, I'm pretty sure that's just the art design. Vista doesn't actually look that different with and without Aero. It just gets candy like transparency and an Expose-equivalent. |
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Drem
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: The Planet Bookshelves
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:46 am |
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| Broco wrote: |
| Legal Step wrote: |
| This doesn't bode well for Longhorn, the other super secret OS |
Is this some kind of subtle joke or something? Longhorn was just the codename of Vista before its name was officially decided, much like say Nintendo Revolution. |
I think he's probably thinking of Vienna/Blackcomb.
My trouble when reading impressions on Vista is that I'm not sure whether people decry it based simply on it's abilities, or it's abilities compared to it's price. Because if they're saying it's not worth getting for $300, what about $15? Is it okay to install it now*, since I got it so cheap? I don't know.
*Once better graphics drivers are out, anyway. |
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DaleNixon
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: dirty dirty south
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:01 am |
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| Broco wrote: |
| DaleNixon wrote: |
| And this is done automatically? You know, most modern journalized filesystems defragment on the fly... NTFS excluded. |
Yes, you don't need to do anything special to turn it on. As for the other filesystems, sure but don't they just clump everything together randomly, not position things based on usage profiling? |
I'm not exactly sure how it works. What I do know is that a Linux image I built three years ago still feels as fast today as it did then. Whereas my Windows images seem to suffer from "bit rot" and get slower the longer they run and the more applications I install. That might be a function of the registry though.
This is the first I've heard of "superfetching". It's interesting... I wonder if it will turn out to be more than a gimmick. Certainly may be a way to conserve battery power on a laptop.
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Broco
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Headquarters
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:30 am |
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| Drem wrote: |
My trouble when reading impressions on Vista is that I'm not sure whether people decry it based simply on it's abilities, or it's abilities compared to it's price. Because if they're saying it's not worth getting for $300, what about $15? Is it okay to install it now*, since I got it so cheap? I don't know.
*Once better graphics drivers are out, anyway. |
Yeah, I mean, it's basically Windows XP with an extra layer of polish. Few people are arguing it's a step backwards (except those obsessed with memory footprint or DRM). Some people find its new feature set underwhelming, but if you're getting it practically free then sure. |
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Craptastic!
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:06 am |
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I don't know if your post was intended to be a joke, but here's a response:
| Legal Step wrote: |
| This doesn't bode well for Longhorn, the other super secret OS, that has been in development even longer than Vista. |
Longhorn IS Vista.
| Quote: |
| The problem with Windows is that nobody wants to trample on The Creator's ideas so everything gets piled on. Every extension of Windows is piled on to the previous version and so and so forth because to do something new different and leaner would require the support of the people they are fighting against. |
How do you know this? Do you work at Microsoft?
If an OS is has popular features or people are just used to doing/seeing things a certain way, does it make much sense to completely overhaul everything?
| Quote: |
| This is a company that had to write 4 billion lines of code so a HD-DVD peripheral device could plug into Xbox360. Lean software isn't in their vocabulary. |
It was 4 million, but what does that even mean? What operations had to be coded? Did it take 4 million lines of code to turn the eject tray button on the dashboard into a Pokeball? Is it 3 million lines of comments? I don't see how anyone can really conclude anything based off the number unless they actually have access to the source code. |
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Craptastic!
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:17 am |
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| BenoitRen wrote: |
| They again had to rape the interface and bloat it with tons of shiny effects, to the point of needing a fucking 3D gaming video card to display it well. Aero my ass. |
You can turn off the Aero interface. Not only that, but considering the whole 3d desktop feature and such, wouldn't it make sense to require at the very least, a $50 "3d gaming" videocard to pull it off? Hell, most, if not all prebuilt PCs over the last year or two from the likes of companies like HP have integrated video that may be absolutely horrible at playing games, but are capable of working with Aero.
| Quote: |
| -They bloated the OS even more so you now need 2 GB of RAM and 15 GB of HDD space just for it to run well. An OS is supposed to be an operating system that consumes the minimum of resources and support your applicaitions, not trying to be a jack-of-all-trades program! Death to the perpetual upgrade cycle! |
15 whole Gigabytes? Oh my god! Our 200+ gb HDDs can't sustain that! If you'd take the time to read up on performance articles and such, 1gb is still sufficient with minimal disk thrashing, while 512mb will bring about performance similar to running XP with 256mb of RAM.
| Quote: |
| Now Windows will annoy you even more with the new User Access Control pop-ups! To be honest, this wasn't a bad idea, but its implementation sucks. It asks you about a lot of things you shouldn't need administrator priviledges for, or things that aren't really harmful! |
Considering that it's possible to get viruses onto a fresh install of XP with SP2 without even opening up an application nowadays, could you elaborate on what exactly it is that you don't consider potentially harmful?
| Quote: |
| A lot of incompatibility. Sucky drivers. 'nuff said. |
So...who's fault is that? That's right, the folks behind the incompatible hardware who've had a year or so to come up with new drivers. |
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km
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Minor character in a frame story
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:44 am |
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I'm downloading the Business edition right now.
We get it for free from school.
It'll make a nice compliment to the Solaris 10 discs I should be getting any day now.
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negativedge
banned
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:03 pm |
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| lol nerd fight |
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gooktime
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: no
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:49 pm |
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| Quote: |
| 15 whole Gigabytes? Oh my god! Our 200+ gb HDDs can't sustain that! If you'd take the time to read up on performance articles and such, 1gb is still sufficient with minimal disk thrashing, while 512mb will bring about performance similar to running XP with 256mb of RAM. |
I agree with you, but I think he's making the point that Tiger installs happily on a 300mhz system... and.... looks prettier.
http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/84-web-developers-microsoft-has-no-idea-whats-going-on
This kinda sums it up in my view. |
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Legal Step
honorary korean
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Christina Hendricks fun bags
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:17 pm |
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| Drem wrote: |
| Broco wrote: |
| Legal Step wrote: |
| This doesn't bode well for Longhorn, the other super secret OS |
Is this some kind of subtle joke or something? Longhorn was just the codename of Vista before its name was officially decided, much like say Nintendo Revolution. |
I think he's probably thinking of Vienna/Blackcomb.
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Yes I got my awesome Microsoft code names confused. That is the next OS right?
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SplashBeats
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:03 pm |
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| Could someone lay out exactly what Vista is up to regarding DRM? I've heard a lot of stuff about how awful it is, but just as much about how it isn't that noticable. |
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