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shrugtheironteacup
man of tomorrow


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Location: a meat

PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:27 pm        Reply with quote

I watched that Glenn Beck video twice.

Hoping, as I did, that anything he said would seem to follow from something he said before it.

Maybe there is some Beck code he is speaking in.

Perhaps, a Beck breakfast cereal in which we can find the appropriate decoder ring.
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psiga
saudade


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:39 am        Reply with quote

I watched the video specifically because you said all that, shrug.

By god, it's like the linguistic equivalent of an optical illusion.

Is that the second floor, or the basement? Is it even part of the same building?

Where am I? I don't even know what the color red is anymore.
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psiga
saudade


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:43 am        Reply with quote

It's vaguely Lovecraftian to consider.
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Winona Ghost Ryder
lives in a monochromatic world


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:59 am        Reply with quote

Glenn Beck = Orson Scott Card
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Dracko
a sapphist fool


Joined: 06 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:54 am        Reply with quote

Shit, he called it.


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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:03 am        Reply with quote

Cocaine Socialist wrote:

Fox News won't let that happen :(



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Dracko
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:10 am        Reply with quote

God, I remember that piece of shit.

Fucking hell.

That shit gets under my skin.
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Adilegian
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:19 am        Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
God, I remember that piece of shit.

Fucking hell.

That shit gets under my skin.

Seriously.

FoxNews is like an overbearing, hateful parent except with better production values.

Re: the Rogers smear piece, lol @ the "what's up with kids these days" narrative. Every generation is a saint as soon as it's old enough to hog the mic because the previous, Probably Perfect generation has given it up by dying.
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psiga
saudade


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:04 am        Reply with quote

Ooh, eye witness reportage of the now-infamous wikileaks heli footage, brought to us by Wired: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/04/2007-iraq-apache-attack-as-seen-from-the-ground/
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:08 am        Reply with quote

This last page and a half is like a horrible joke. The Glen Beck video... I don't even know how to answer that. There is a slight of hand there, a slithering trick that attempts to conceal concepts that are in plain sight, and his clientèle, dazed by the cheap wine in this cabaret, applauds in unison, believing that have been something wonderful and awaiting the following titillation.

Was literally wide gasped on the whole Vonnegut one.

psiga wrote:
Ooh, eye witness reportage of the now-infamous wikileaks heli footage, brought to us by Wired: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/04/2007-iraq-apache-attack-as-seen-from-the-ground/

Actually, when he says :
McCord wrote:
When it was first released I don’t think it was done in the best manner that it could have been. They were stating that these people had no weapons whatsoever, that they were just carrying cameras. In the video, you can clearly see that they did have weapons … to the trained eye. You can make out in the video [someone] carrying an AK-47, swinging it down by his legs….
I thought I saw it the first time I saw this video too, and I was pretty mad that wikileaks "forgot" to point that out because it weakened their position and set up a obvious point for detractors. But of course, one would expect a news reporter to walk around with a security detail in a armed conflict, even if it was not an American one. In general, the worst part of the new information here is seeing and hearing of soldiers still being abused on the battlefield and negated their right to mental health. I can easily see this as a order to stop information leaking out, after they found the press credentials and knowing children were involved.
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psiga
saudade


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:39 am        Reply with quote

As one of the commentators says: "The article is WRONG. WikiLeaks states, in the very first page of text in the video, that “While some of the men appeared to be armed, the behavior of nearly everyone is relaxed”."
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Takashi



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:06 am        Reply with quote

Hmm. That's true (and I admit I forgot it myself, mostly because I assumed this to be obvious), but that part has been consistently been removed from all the televised footage, what has lead to even more misinterpretation, namely McCord seeing it on the telly and getting that feeling.

WikiLeaks could have avoided much distress if the "short version" (that I personally think is the source of all the misreadings from the start and would provably had been better delivered as a text description or something) had the people that were likely to be carrying guns signaled - much like when they pointed out that a camera was not a weapon early on.
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shrugtheironteacup
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:00 pm        Reply with quote


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P1d40n3



Joined: 28 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:00 pm        Reply with quote

Every time you think Fox News has finally settled on an acceptable level of bullshit, they go and sink deeper.

shrugtheironteacup wrote:
I watched that Glenn Beck video twice.

Hoping, as I did, that anything he said would seem to follow from something he said before it.

Maybe there is some Beck code he is speaking in.

Perhaps, a Beck breakfast cereal in which we can find the appropriate decoder ring.


You just need to speak Whiny Paranoid White Person. I am mildly fluent, so allow me to translate.

"THEY'RE ALL COMMIES. GODLESS COMMIES."

Now imagine if that sentence were to scare you, then multiply it by about a million. And note that They consists of pretty much everyone, save those in the movement, except the parts of the movement that disagree with you.

EDIT:

Especially the parts of the movement that disagree with you.
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Adilegian
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:29 pm        Reply with quote

wrote:
THEY'RE ALL COMMIES. GODLESS COMMIES.

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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:06 am        Reply with quote

The entire equation of socialism with tyranny continues to utterly boggle me. Most of these people aren't actually libertarians - they're Republicans. They like socialized schools and socialized highways and socialized police and socialized medical care for the elderly. The willful blindness is just astounding.
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Mr. Mechanical
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:53 am        Reply with quote

Fox News is telling people what they want to hear, and since people usually tend to believe things they already wanted to believe in the first place this makes their job that much easier. The Fox audience was already suspicious of Obama before he got elected and the GOP/Neocon faction are such whores for power that they will say and do literally anything to smear his image, no matter what the reality actually is, because in this day and age of managing perception in mass media the Image always trumps the reality. It's just a giant echo chamber at this point, for Fox and friends.

Anybody with half a brain can see what a piece of trash agitprop network Fox is, but being able to see the reality does nothing if you can't effectively attack the image that is projected. Though Jon Stewart has made a career out of doing just that, he's really just preaching to his respective choir these days (much like Fox themselves). No one's mind is getting changed anywhere, because there's no actual dialog taking place. Just a lot of shouting and name calling and stupidity. It's why I only enjoy discussing the politics of politics, rather than politics themselves. Because talking politics with anyone these days anymore boils down to repeating bs talking points you heard from some talking head on tv somewhere.

And on that note let me pass on this latest Glenn Greenwald :D

Unlearned lessons from the Steven Hatfill case

aaaand

The Atlantic piece that spawned the blog post (seriously read this one even if you ignore Greenwald)

There are already enough problems with regular mainstream mass media news networks. Sitting around pointing out how blatantly dishonest Fox News is and how willfully stupid their audience must be to keep eating it up is fun and all, but they're only a part of a larger problem.
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dark steve
secretary of good times


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:20 am        Reply with quote

CubaLibre wrote:
The entire equation of socialism with tyranny continues to utterly boggle me. Most of these people aren't actually libertarians - they're Republicans. They like socialized schools and socialized highways and socialized police and socialized medical care for the elderly. The willful blindness is just astounding.
well it's all tyranny, they just don't like anybody else's

which is not a unique irony, but
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Mr. Mechanical
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:09 am        Reply with quote


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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:14 am        Reply with quote

dark steve wrote:
CubaLibre wrote:
The entire equation of socialism with tyranny continues to utterly boggle me. Most of these people aren't actually libertarians - they're Republicans. They like socialized schools and socialized highways and socialized police and socialized medical care for the elderly. The willful blindness is just astounding.
well it's all tyranny, they just don't like anybody else's

which is not a unique irony, but

Well, exactly. The question is never "is socialism bad?" but always "is this particular form of socialism bad in the circumstances?" The second question precludes using the label socialism as if it were a dirty word without further elucidation. But of course that's exactly what they do.
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Mr. Mechanical
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:51 am        Reply with quote

Google - Greater transparency around government requests

http://www.google.com/governmentrequests/

Quote:
Article 19 of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights states that "everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers." Written in 1948, the principle applies aptly to today's Internet -- one of the most important means of free expression in the world. Yet government censorship of the web is growing rapidly: from the outright blocking and filtering of sites, to court orders limiting access to information and legislation forcing companies to self-censor content.

So it's no surprise that Google, like other technology and telecommunications companies, regularly receives demands from government agencies to remove content from our services. Of course many of these requests are entirely legitimate, such as requests for the removal of child pornography. We also regularly receive requests from law enforcement agencies to hand over private user data. Again, the vast majority of these requests are valid and the information needed is for legitimate criminal investigations. However, data about these activities historically has not been broadly available. We believe that greater transparency will lead to less censorship.

We are today launching a new Government Requests tool to give people information about the requests for user data or content removal we receive from government agencies around the world. For this launch, we are using data from July-December, 2009, and we plan to update the data in 6-month increments.

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Mr. Mechanical
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:04 am        Reply with quote

Obama Revives Rumsfeld’s Missile Scheme, Risks Nuke War

Quote:
The Obama administration is poised to take up one of the more dangerous and hare-brained schemes of the Rumsfeld-era Pentagon. The New York Times is reporting that the Defense Department is once again looking to equip intercontinental ballistic missiles with conventional warheads. The missiles could then, in theory, destroy fleeing targets a half a world away — a no-notice “bolt from the blue,” striking in a matter of hours. There’s just one teeny-tiny problem: the launches could very well start World War III.

Over and over again, the Bush administration tried to push the idea of these conventional ICBMs. Over and over again, Congress refused to provide the funds for it. The reason was pretty simple: those anti-terror missiles look and fly exactly like the nuclear missiles we’d launch at Russia or China, in the event of Armageddon. “For many minutes during their flight patterns, these missiles might appear to be headed towards targets in these nations,” a congressional study notes. That could have world-changing consequences. “The launch of such a missile,” then-Russian president Vladimir Putin said in a state of the nation address after the announcement of the Bush-era plan, “could provoke a full-scale counterattack using strategic nuclear forces.”

The Pentagon mumbled all kinds of assurances that Beijing or Moscow would never, ever, never misinterpret one kind of ICBM for the other. But the core of their argument essentially came down to this: Trust us, Vlad Putin! That ballistic missile we just launched in your direction isn’t nuclear. We swear!

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elvis.shrugged



Joined: 17 Apr 2007

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:17 am        Reply with quote

What the fuck?
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Dark Age Iron Savior
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:34 am        Reply with quote

ctrl-f "obama"

one (1) instance in title of article
one (1) instance in article prope, as "Obama administration"

the rest in comments.

I'm not applying that as a defense of Obama or anything regarding this particular story.

But was I just not paying attention, or did both the left and right not do that kind of subtle misdirection of responsibility as frequently during the W Bush presidency?

perhaps Obama would get better press if he had picked someone more obviously evil than him to be his VP.
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Mr. Mechanical
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:44 am        Reply with quote

Dark Age Iron Savior wrote:
But was I just not paying attention, or did both the left and right not do that kind of subtle misdirection of responsibility as frequently during the W Bush presidency?


Nah I think you've picked up on something. I remember lots of articles referring to the "Bush Administration" or "The President" or "The Administration", but never any articles that headlined with "Bush Did X" or whatever. Double standard? Secret/unconscious racism? I don't know what's up specifically, but I am getting the impression from this current administration that they're treating the office of president as a brand. Or maybe that's just the impression I'm getting because of the way the media reports on them, because that's the impression they're getting.

It does subtly mislead, though. It paints a picture that it's all this one guy who's doing everything when it's really him and like 200 other people that he's appointed and such to help him make decisions.

Speaking of the Obama Administration: DOJ abandons warrantless attempt to read Yahoo e-mail (notice the headline doesn't mention Obama specifically, though it could have since the attempts being reported on were made by people he appointed to the DOJ)
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Adilegian
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:07 pm        Reply with quote

elvis.shrugged wrote:
What the fuck?


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Mr. Mechanical
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:03 pm        Reply with quote

Study shows a link between colorblind ideology and racism
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:19 pm        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:
elvis.shrugged wrote:
What the fuck?


This is great.
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CubaLibre
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:11 pm        Reply with quote

Mr. Mechanical wrote:
It does subtly mislead, though. It paints a picture that it's all this one guy who's doing everything when it's really him and like 200 other people that he's appointed and such to help him make decisions.

There may or may not be subtle media distortions around this point, but generally everybody knows this. It's irrelevant if someone Obama appointed is coming up with that crazy nonsense; he appointed him. That's the whole purpose of accountability: shit rolls uphill. If Presidents don't want to be publically considered solely responsible for the actions of thousands of federal employees, they're more than welcome to give all their administrative power back.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:13 pm        Reply with quote

Mr. Mechanical wrote:
Study shows a link between colorblind ideology and racism

Also, this study is awesome but it's sort of self-explanatory, isn't it? Kids who say they don't "see" race don't find parties that play on racial stereotypes offensive. Why should they? It's entirely circular. I mean I guess the idea is that the pictures are supposed to be so offensive that anyone should find them offensive, but that's putting the cart before the horse.
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Mr. Mechanical
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:41 pm        Reply with quote

CubaLibre wrote:
Mr. Mechanical wrote:
It does subtly mislead, though. It paints a picture that it's all this one guy who's doing everything when it's really him and like 200 other people that he's appointed and such to help him make decisions.

There may or may not be subtle media distortions around this point, but generally everybody knows this. It's irrelevant if someone Obama appointed is coming up with that crazy nonsense; he appointed him. That's the whole purpose of accountability: shit rolls uphill. If Presidents don't want to be publically considered solely responsible for the actions of thousands of federal employees, they're more than welcome to give all their administrative power back.

Yeah I'm right there with you on this point. In a way it really does go all the way back to the top, but I'm noticing some competing perceptions in the media environment. In the anti-Obama media it's all his fault, every last little thing even the stuff he doesn't even know about. In the "mainstream" non-anti-Obama media Obama is often like some kind of bit player in the background of everything, and usually has his hands effectively tied for whatever reason. Then there's the totally pro-Obama media in which Obama is actually secretly way more liberal and progressive than he lets on and is really playing an elaborate game of 11 dimensional chess with the various power factions that run the country.

I feel like the mainstream media may be more closer to the reality of the matter if I accept that maybe the president really isn't the most powerful person in the world, but they don't seem that interested in holding presidents accountable for their decisions much these days. I don't think you're going get accountability from the other two camps either, because one doesn't see any need for it and the other will just be ignored or written off as crazy. I guess it might be possible to somehow shame the mainstream media into holding public officials accountable (like if you see Chuck Todd then you call him an administration stenographer/lap dog etc.). While that might be fun to do it doesn't seem immediately productive, have to be a more long term project.

CubaLibre wrote:
Also, this study is awesome but it's sort of self-explanatory, isn't it? Kids who say they don't "see" race don't find parties that play on racial stereotypes offensive. Why should they? It's entirely circular. I mean I guess the idea is that the pictures are supposed to be so offensive that anyone should find them offensive, but that's putting the cart before the horse.

Yeah but it's depressing because appealing to colorblindness is often just an excuse to not have to talk about race at all. You might be able to make the argument that colorblindness will eventually eliminate racism by eliminating racial categories but it's not an argument that I really buy into at the moment because it still seems apparent that racial injustice exists and racial categories as concepts would be pretty useful in order to talk about and examine that!

Also I'm willing to bet that most of the kids who don't see race have never had the experience of being the target of a racial stereotype.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:03 pm        Reply with quote

Don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly anti-"colorblindness" and consider it a tool to perpetuate racism, which still exists today on a grand scale. It's just that the study isn't going to convince anyone. It's a study of perceptions, but those perceptions can only be compared to the exact same set of available perceptions. People who have a "colorblind" perception find the photos non-racist. The study tries to make the photos outrageous enough that they are "objectively" racist but that fails; ultimately the study's conclusions are based on the fact that the studiers have a non-colorblind perception. In other words they already think colorblindness is racist. They happen to be correct, but that doesn't mean there's anything scientific about the study.
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Mr. Mechanical
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:31 pm        Reply with quote

Ah, that's a great point.
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:11 am        Reply with quote

"The odd thing is that many politicians and pundits believe that the only way to control health costs is to get consumers to limit their consumption of health care – as if an appendectomy, for example, was a kind of self-indulgence."
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Adilegian
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:22 am        Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
"The odd thing is that many politicians and pundits believe that the only way to control health costs is to get consumers to limit their consumption of health care – as if an appendectomy, for example, was a kind of self-indulgence."

Your inflamed vestigial organs say "WELCOME TO THE NO SPIN ZONE."
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Winona Ghost Ryder
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:23 pm        Reply with quote

One stormy night I drove to a mailshop hidden deep in a nearly deserted stand of warehouses. I'd heard something was up and wanted to see for myself.

As I rounded the final turn my eyes nearly popped. Tractor-trailers pulled up to loading docks, cars and vans everywhere and long-haired, earring-pierced men scurrying around running forklifts, inserters and huge printing presses.

Trembling with worry I went inside. It was worse than I ever imagined.

Row after row of boxes bulging with pro-homosexual petitions lined the walls, stacked to the ceiling.

My mind reeled as I realized hundreds, maybe thousands, more boxes were already loaded on the tractor-trailers. And still more petitions were flying off the press.

Suddenly a dark-haired man screeched, "Delgaudio what are you doing here?" Dozens of men began moving toward me. I'd been recognized.

As I retreated to my car, the man chortled, "This time Delgaudio we can't lose."

Driving away, my eyes filled with tears as I realized he might be right. This time the Radical Homosexuals could win.
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:16 pm        Reply with quote

the gays are coming to get you, heteronormative white trash america

they're coming to steal your wives

gonna get all dyonisus uih
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Adilegian
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:53 pm        Reply with quote

"You see, even though homosexuals are just 1% of the population, if every one sent a petition to Congress it would generate a tidal wave of two or three million petitions or more."

Even within the universe of bogus thought from which this letter is a tactless emissary, this suggests a pretty confused use of numbers. The guy uses 1% to say "hey they're such a minority!" but then uses "two or three million" to say "whoa so many!"

It's as though he doesn't know whether to say that two or three million is a lot, so he uses the size of the constituency to suggest how awful their influence might be and then uses the percentage to show how two or three million doesn't deserve to matter.

EDIT: I mean is it really that "out there" to think that two or three million people (even within the propaganda's rubric) should have some attention paid to them?

Super-Double-EDIT: "Radical homosexuals will terrorize day care centers, hospitals, churches and private schools. Traditional moral values will be shattered by federal law."
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:43 pm        Reply with quote

Well, the idea that as an abstract constituency homosexuals wouldn't be worth catering to, because they make such a tiny percentage of the vote. But, if every single one of them sent a petition, it would be a very powerful message that they were a 100% cohesive and active voting bloc, which most blocs are not. No politician would turn down 3 million votes without any counter-message from a larger and mutually exclusive bloc.

This is, uh, apart from the point that the whole god damned thing is ridiculous.
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Winona Ghost Ryder
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:58 pm        Reply with quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Delgaudio
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Dark Age Iron Savior
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:14 pm        Reply with quote

maybe he stumbled across an Illuminati plot, but they pretended to be radical homosexuals to throw him off the scent

anyway! Back to the kinder, gentler heteronormative behavior:

Code:
Last week a talented, young woman full of promise came to me with a flier her family received in the mail from the Republican Party. As she handed me the mailer, with a sense of disappointment and hurt, she pointed to a line in the flier that read, 'Let's take Betty Sutton out of the House and send her back to the kitchen.'


Code:
When confronted about the offensiveness of the sexist remark, the Republican Chair, defended the flier, saying that he had sent it to 15,000 households and had not received any complaints. Then he went on to criticize those he offended.

Later, after receiving a lot of questions and complaints about his statement, the Republican Chair attempted to minimize the offensiveness of the comment he approved about sending me "back to the kitchen," saying "I saw it, but I didn't think there was anything particularly wrong with it." He is standing by the flier, saying it was intended to "educate and engage voters."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/betty-sutton/send-me-back-to-the-kitch_b_552066.html
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