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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:47 am |
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I don't have any guns sawtooth but you can have my Greenwald when you pry him from my cold dead fingers. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:48 am |
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Be great if they made this a habit. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:17 am |
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http://www.truthout.org/iraq-war-vet-we-were-told-just-shoot-people-and-officers-would-take-care-us58378
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Moon brought back a video that shows his sergeant declaring, "The difference between an insurgent and an Iraqi civilian is whether they are dead or alive."
Moon explains the thinking: "If you kill a civilian he becomes an insurgent because you retroactively make that person a threat."
According to the Pentagon probes of the killings shown in the WikiLeaks video, the air crew had "reason to believe" the people seen in the video were fighters before opening fire.
Article 48 of the Geneva Conventions speaks to the "basic rule" regarding the protection of civilians:
"In order to ensure respect for and protection of the civilian population and civilian objects, the Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objectives."
What is happening in Iraq seems to reflect what psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton calls "atrocity-producing situations." He used this term first in his book "The Nazi Doctors." In 2004, he wrote an article for The Nation, applying his insights to the Iraq War and occupation.
"Atrocity-producing situations," Lifton wrote, occur when a power structure sets up an environment where "ordinary people, men or women no better or worse than you or I, can regularly commit atrocities.... This kind of atrocity-producing situation ... surely occurs to some degrees in all wars, including World War II, our last 'good war.' But a counterinsurgency war in a hostile setting, especially when driven by profound ideological distortions, is particularly prone to sustained atrocity - all the more so when it becomes an occupation." |
Polish plane crash: investigators rule out technical fault
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The crew of Mr Kaczynski's plane, who were all members of the Polish Air Force, were said by investigators to have ignored repeated warnings not to land in thick fog. They are now studying black box recordings to try to work out why the pilot did not divert to another airport.
Speaking at a meeting with the Prime Minister, Vladimir Putin, who is in charge of the investigation, Russia's chief investigator Alexander Bastrykin, said: "The recordings that we have confirm that there were no technical problems with the plane.
"The pilot was informed about complex weather conditions but nevertheless made a decision to land." |
'VIP syndrome' and pilot error blamed for crash
| Quote: |
| The airport is a small, military facility that does not usually accept civilian craft. Aviation experts speculated that the pilots may have been ordered to land by the Polish President. "It's a clear case of VIP-passenger syndrome," flight safety expert Viktor Timoshkin told Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper. "Air-traffic control told him to take the plane to Moscow or Minsk. I'm certain that the pilot will have told the President about this, and got a firm reply that the plane must land in Smolensk." |
Terrorist attack on U.S. predicted
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GONZALES — Louisiana Army National Guard Maj. Gen. Hunt Downer Jr. predicted Thursday another terrorist attack will occur in the United States, saying “it’s just a question of when and where.”
Downer, assistant adjutant general of the Louisiana Army National Guard, delivered the brief but stirring warning during an Ascension Parish Chamber of Commerce luncheon amid a longer discussion about the need for businesses to be involved in statewide disaster planning.
He said businesses are needed in the recovery of communities affected by natural and other disasters, but noted there will be no advance warning for attacks against the nation.
“Make no bones about. I don’t care what you hear. There will be another attack in this country. It’s just a question of when and where,” he said.
Downer, a former Democratic Houma state representative and Speaker of the House and later Republican candidate for governor in 2003, said there are those “who are hellbent on killing us.” |
Yeah, the relatives of all that collateral damage we've been causing.
US military 'cannot find Iraq tape'
| Quote: |
| The US military has said it cannot find its copy of a video showing two helicopters involved in a deadly attack in Baghdad in 2007. |
Of course not.
Al Jazeera finds inconsistencies in Pentagon's investigations into US attack on Iraqis. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:31 am |
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| CubaLibre wrote: |
Is there anyone who doesn't already know and believe this? |
You'd be surprised. Well, maybe not. Actually you're probably right, no matter where you are or who you're talking to it's pretty much expected at this point that it's just a matter of when. I wasn't disputing that, however. My comment on that was coming from a place that fully expects the battle of debate to be fought over the "why" part of it, since there are still obviously people who think the terr'sts just hate our American way of life.
| Quote: |
I don't think this is conspiratorial at all, if Iraq has proved anything it's that the US military is grossly incompetent. They probably can't find half their tapes. |
Perhaps. I was only commenting on it because it's a pattern for them, whenever some controversy erupts, to conveniently lose evidence. Whether it's by design or not is impossible to determine from where we're standing, but the end result (some kind of plausible deniability or whatever) is still the same. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

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Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:12 pm |
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 _________________
| internisus wrote: |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:45 pm |
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What happened to "look forward, not backward"?
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| The Obama Justice Department today announced that it has secured a ten-felony-count indictment against Thomas Drake, an official with the National Security Agency during the Bush years. Drake's indictment, of course, has nothing to do with the criminal surveillance undertaken by the NSA. Rather, the DOJ alleges "that between approximately February 2006 and November 2007, a newspaper reporter published a series of articles about the NSA," and it claims "Drake served as a source for many of those articles, including articles that contained classified information." In other words, he's being subjected to what The New York Times' Scott Shane calls a "highly unusual" prosecution for being a whistle-blower on the Bush era's sprawling and secretive Surveillance State. Although the indictment does not specify Drake's leaks, it is highly likely (as Shane also suggests) that it is based on Drake's bringing to the public's attention major failures and cost over-runs with the NSA's spying programs via leaks to The Baltimore Sun. |
What the whistleblower prosecution says about the Obama DOJ
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It's true that leaking classified information is a crime. That's what makes whistleblowers like Drake so courageous. That's why Daniel Ellsberg -- who literally risked his liberty in an effort to help end the Vietnam War -- is one of the 20th Century's genuine American heroes. And if political-related crimes were punished equally, one could accept whistle-blower prosecutions even while questioning the motives behind them and the priorities they reflect. But that's not the situation that prevails.
Instead, here you have the Obama DOJ in all its glory: no prosecutions (but rather full-scale immunity extended) for war crimes, torture, and illegal spying. For those crimes, we must Look Forward, Not Backward. But for those poor individuals who courageously blow the whistle on oozing corruption, waste and illegal surveillance by the omnipotent public-private Surveillance State: the full weight of the "justice system" comes crashing down upon them with threats of many years in prison. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:53 am |
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Fox News is telling people what they want to hear, and since people usually tend to believe things they already wanted to believe in the first place this makes their job that much easier. The Fox audience was already suspicious of Obama before he got elected and the GOP/Neocon faction are such whores for power that they will say and do literally anything to smear his image, no matter what the reality actually is, because in this day and age of managing perception in mass media the Image always trumps the reality. It's just a giant echo chamber at this point, for Fox and friends.
Anybody with half a brain can see what a piece of trash agitprop network Fox is, but being able to see the reality does nothing if you can't effectively attack the image that is projected. Though Jon Stewart has made a career out of doing just that, he's really just preaching to his respective choir these days (much like Fox themselves). No one's mind is getting changed anywhere, because there's no actual dialog taking place. Just a lot of shouting and name calling and stupidity. It's why I only enjoy discussing the politics of politics, rather than politics themselves. Because talking politics with anyone these days anymore boils down to repeating bs talking points you heard from some talking head on tv somewhere.
And on that note let me pass on this latest Glenn Greenwald :D
Unlearned lessons from the Steven Hatfill case
aaaand
The Atlantic piece that spawned the blog post (seriously read this one even if you ignore Greenwald)
There are already enough problems with regular mainstream mass media news networks. Sitting around pointing out how blatantly dishonest Fox News is and how willfully stupid their audience must be to keep eating it up is fun and all, but they're only a part of a larger problem. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:09 am |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:51 am |
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Google - Greater transparency around government requests
http://www.google.com/governmentrequests/
| Quote: |
Article 19 of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights states that "everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers." Written in 1948, the principle applies aptly to today's Internet -- one of the most important means of free expression in the world. Yet government censorship of the web is growing rapidly: from the outright blocking and filtering of sites, to court orders limiting access to information and legislation forcing companies to self-censor content.
So it's no surprise that Google, like other technology and telecommunications companies, regularly receives demands from government agencies to remove content from our services. Of course many of these requests are entirely legitimate, such as requests for the removal of child pornography. We also regularly receive requests from law enforcement agencies to hand over private user data. Again, the vast majority of these requests are valid and the information needed is for legitimate criminal investigations. However, data about these activities historically has not been broadly available. We believe that greater transparency will lead to less censorship.
We are today launching a new Government Requests tool to give people information about the requests for user data or content removal we receive from government agencies around the world. For this launch, we are using data from July-December, 2009, and we plan to update the data in 6-month increments. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:04 am |
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Obama Revives Rumsfeld’s Missile Scheme, Risks Nuke War
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The Obama administration is poised to take up one of the more dangerous and hare-brained schemes of the Rumsfeld-era Pentagon. The New York Times is reporting that the Defense Department is once again looking to equip intercontinental ballistic missiles with conventional warheads. The missiles could then, in theory, destroy fleeing targets a half a world away — a no-notice “bolt from the blue,” striking in a matter of hours. There’s just one teeny-tiny problem: the launches could very well start World War III.
Over and over again, the Bush administration tried to push the idea of these conventional ICBMs. Over and over again, Congress refused to provide the funds for it. The reason was pretty simple: those anti-terror missiles look and fly exactly like the nuclear missiles we’d launch at Russia or China, in the event of Armageddon. “For many minutes during their flight patterns, these missiles might appear to be headed towards targets in these nations,” a congressional study notes. That could have world-changing consequences. “The launch of such a missile,” then-Russian president Vladimir Putin said in a state of the nation address after the announcement of the Bush-era plan, “could provoke a full-scale counterattack using strategic nuclear forces.”
The Pentagon mumbled all kinds of assurances that Beijing or Moscow would never, ever, never misinterpret one kind of ICBM for the other. But the core of their argument essentially came down to this: Trust us, Vlad Putin! That ballistic missile we just launched in your direction isn’t nuclear. We swear! |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:44 am |
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| Dark Age Iron Savior wrote: |
| But was I just not paying attention, or did both the left and right not do that kind of subtle misdirection of responsibility as frequently during the W Bush presidency? |
Nah I think you've picked up on something. I remember lots of articles referring to the "Bush Administration" or "The President" or "The Administration", but never any articles that headlined with "Bush Did X" or whatever. Double standard? Secret/unconscious racism? I don't know what's up specifically, but I am getting the impression from this current administration that they're treating the office of president as a brand. Or maybe that's just the impression I'm getting because of the way the media reports on them, because that's the impression they're getting.
It does subtly mislead, though. It paints a picture that it's all this one guy who's doing everything when it's really him and like 200 other people that he's appointed and such to help him make decisions.
Speaking of the Obama Administration: DOJ abandons warrantless attempt to read Yahoo e-mail (notice the headline doesn't mention Obama specifically, though it could have since the attempts being reported on were made by people he appointed to the DOJ) _________________
| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:41 pm |
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| CubaLibre wrote: |
| Mr. Mechanical wrote: |
| It does subtly mislead, though. It paints a picture that it's all this one guy who's doing everything when it's really him and like 200 other people that he's appointed and such to help him make decisions. |
There may or may not be subtle media distortions around this point, but generally everybody knows this. It's irrelevant if someone Obama appointed is coming up with that crazy nonsense; he appointed him. That's the whole purpose of accountability: shit rolls uphill. If Presidents don't want to be publically considered solely responsible for the actions of thousands of federal employees, they're more than welcome to give all their administrative power back. |
Yeah I'm right there with you on this point. In a way it really does go all the way back to the top, but I'm noticing some competing perceptions in the media environment. In the anti-Obama media it's all his fault, every last little thing even the stuff he doesn't even know about. In the "mainstream" non-anti-Obama media Obama is often like some kind of bit player in the background of everything, and usually has his hands effectively tied for whatever reason. Then there's the totally pro-Obama media in which Obama is actually secretly way more liberal and progressive than he lets on and is really playing an elaborate game of 11 dimensional chess with the various power factions that run the country.
I feel like the mainstream media may be more closer to the reality of the matter if I accept that maybe the president really isn't the most powerful person in the world, but they don't seem that interested in holding presidents accountable for their decisions much these days. I don't think you're going get accountability from the other two camps either, because one doesn't see any need for it and the other will just be ignored or written off as crazy. I guess it might be possible to somehow shame the mainstream media into holding public officials accountable (like if you see Chuck Todd then you call him an administration stenographer/lap dog etc.). While that might be fun to do it doesn't seem immediately productive, have to be a more long term project.
| CubaLibre wrote: |
| Also, this study is awesome but it's sort of self-explanatory, isn't it? Kids who say they don't "see" race don't find parties that play on racial stereotypes offensive. Why should they? It's entirely circular. I mean I guess the idea is that the pictures are supposed to be so offensive that anyone should find them offensive, but that's putting the cart before the horse. |
Yeah but it's depressing because appealing to colorblindness is often just an excuse to not have to talk about race at all. You might be able to make the argument that colorblindness will eventually eliminate racism by eliminating racial categories but it's not an argument that I really buy into at the moment because it still seems apparent that racial injustice exists and racial categories as concepts would be pretty useful in order to talk about and examine that!
Also I'm willing to bet that most of the kids who don't see race have never had the experience of being the target of a racial stereotype. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:31 pm |
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Ah, that's a great point. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

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Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 5:53 am |
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I thought that even though the Conservatives took the most seats the results of the election was that there was a hung parliament? Meaning basically no one's in control just yet because nobody got a majority*. So technically if that's the case then not much is going to happen, probably, until the other two parties are able to form a coalition and take control that way.
*Or something to that effect. I haven't really been following the election that closely wheeee. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 7:20 am |
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| Cocaine Socialist wrote: |
| http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/us/28abortion.html?src=mv |
The funny part is, this isn't the first time they've passed this law and Henry's vetoed it.
If liberal/moderate/progressive Oklahomans voted in local elections in the same numbers that conservatives did he wouldn't have had to veto this crap in the first place. But they only seem content to turn out for state/national elections instead. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 6:01 pm |
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| CubaLibre wrote: |
| Quote: |
| “The goal of this legislation is just to make a statement for the sanctity of human life,” State Senator Todd Lamb, the majority floor leader, said in an interview after the vote. “Maybe someday these babies will grow up to be police officers and arrest bad people, or will find a cure for cancer.” |
I actually laughed at this. Maybe, man! Maybe. |
I know right? By that same rational maybe someday those babies will grow up to be murderers who kill good people, or mad scientists who genetically engineer new forms of cancer.
Ahhh, legislating morality. It just never gets old. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

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Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:16 am |
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MOSCOW — A Russian MP has asked an eccentric regional leader to explain his behaviour after claiming on state television that he was visited at home by aliens in a UFO, media reported Thursday.
Kirsan Ilyumzhinov, head of the Buddhist Kalmykia region of southern Russia and president of the World Chess Federation (FIDE), announced without apparent irony on a high-profile chat show he had met the aliens in 1997.
In an equally bizarre twist, Andrei Lebedev, an MP for the nationalist Liberal Democratic Party, has now written to President Dmitry Medvedev raising fears that secret information could have been disclosed in the close encounter.
I like the closing paragraphs from digital journal.
| Quote: |
On Wednesday, Russian parliamentarian Andre Lebedev called for an inquiry into the claims made by Ilyumzhinov and also wrote a letter to Russian President Dmitri Medvedev where he made a list of concerns, reports Press TV. Lebedev believes it should have been reported to Kremlin because it was a historic event.
There have been numerous political officials from across the globe who claim to have seen aliens, such as 2008 Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich, former United States President Jimmy Carter and, most recently, Japan’s First Lady, Miyuki Hatoyama, said she was abducted by aliens. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:09 am |
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Haven't you heard? Clif has acquired a pair of those 3rd generation night vision goggles like that Ed Grimsley guy and has said that he's been able to see the actual alien wars going on over our heads this very moment. That "meteor" that fell over the heartland recently? Just might have been some debris, eh? Like from a space battle. He speculates that the triangular shaped craft are our own back engineered technology, the rectangular shaped craft are perhaps some other human engineered tech (or maybe et), and occasionally when those two start shooting it out with each other he says something truly alien looking shows up that causes the other two kinds of craft to scatter like roaches.
I've enjoyed following the web bot thing for a while now, and I always assumed that Clif and company were genuinely sincere fellows who were maybe at times drinking a bit too much of their own kool aid. But lately they seem to be really ratcheting up the weirdness and I can't tell if they're still being sincere and just reporting things as they encounter them or if they're not just manufacturing a lot of it for their own gain, stirring up the beehive or whatever. I'd like to believe that Clif really is who he says he is, because he seems like a nice fellow in his radio interviews and such, but in his line of "business" it's not uncommon for people like him to be on someone else's payroll. Or he could just be misinterpreting the orbits of satellites.
It is eerie though how a lot of the "predictions" the web bot makes do actually play out in some fashion, even if not in the way you anticipate they would. Just might be something to that whole thing.
Oh btw, seems other people might be paying attention to their work as well. Like, say, Google. _________________
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

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Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:58 pm |
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Can you copypaste the really relevant and/or hilarious bits? I don't want to give their advertisers the pageview. _________________
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

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Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:57 pm |
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http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=C4A45B70-1837-4F76-8606-1F7FAF1932D2
| Quote: |
WASHINGTON, May 11 – In a major victory for transparency at the Federal Reserve, the Senate today passed an amendment by Sen. Bernie Sanders to audit the Fed and make the central bank reveal which banks received more than $2 trillion in emergency aid during the financial crisis
“The Fed can no longer operate in virtual secrecy,” said Sanders (I-Vt.).
Under his amendment, the Government Accountability Office would conduct a top-to-bottom audit of all emergency actions by the Fed since the start of the financial crisis in 2007. The non-partisan research arm of Congress specifically would be directed to investigate apparent conflicts of interest involving the Fed and CEOs of the largest financial institutions in the country.
In addition to the audit, the Fed for the first time would have to reveal by Dec. 1, 2010, the identities of banks and other financial institutions that took more than $2 trillion in nearly zero-interest loans.
Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke repeatedly refused to tell Sanders and others the names of the banks which took the loans.
“Let's be clear,” Sanders said. “When trillions of dollars of taxpayer money are being lent out to the largest financial institutions in this country, the American people have a right to know who received that money and what they did with it. We also need to know what possible conflicts of interest exist involving the heads of large financial institutions who sat in the room helping to make those decisions.”
The amendment, approved by a vote of 96 to 0, was a combined effort by conservative and progressive senators and a wide spectrum of grass roots organizations.
The Fed is fighting federal court judgments ordering the central bank to divulge the information that was sought in Freedom of Information Act lawsuits by Bloomberg News and other news organizations.
The information that the Fed has withheld is separate from the $700 billion in Wall Street bailouts approved by Congress under the Troubled Asset Relief Program. Recipients of those funds were posted on the Treasury Department Web site. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

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Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 4:28 pm |
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| psiga wrote: |
| The bot forecasts that I've seen 'come true' end up being ambiguous yet uncannily close to home in retrospect |
Oh man. From George Ure's column today:
| Quote: |
Linguistics: Diaspora
Well, now....this is one that I will have to flag and send on to the Chief Time monk: Remember all the stuff in the Shape of Things to Come reports about Diaspora? And 220-million people moving around and all that?
Well, turns out there is a new up & coming social networking 'answer' to Facebook and it's main marketing point is what? The lack of privacy in Facebook (I don't know many of the people who scribble on my wall, for example...).
"Four Nerds" have raised $10,000 says the NY Times and they are working up a new product called "Diaspora"! Yee gads....you don't think the bot reference is to a wholesale move to Diaspora the social network over privacy concerns, do you? Hmmmm...signups at
http://www.joindiaspora.com/ |
Seriously cracking up over here. Hopefully this will the linguistic fill for the "diaspora" prediction, and we won't be seeing any huge refugee camps any time soon.
Also, since I'm a fan of the UFO stuff: Former state legislator Henry W Mcelroy testify that President Eisenhower was briefed on ET presence.
I've no idea if the guy is who he says he is but there's a video of him saying some stuff that UFO "researchers" have been saying for years.
Aaaaand since it's been a while since I've posted a Greenwald column:
A primary reason Bush and Cheney succeeded in their radical erosion of core liberties is because they focused their assault on non-citizens with foreign-sounding names, casting the appearance that none of what they were doing would ever affect the average American. There were several exceptions to that tactic -- the due-process-free imprisonment of Americans Yaser Hamdi and Jose Padilla, the abuse of the "material witness" statute to detain American Muslims, the eavesdropping on Americans' communications without warrants -- but the vast bulk of the abuses were aimed at non-citizens. That is now clearly changing. _________________
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:30 am |
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| Dark Age Iron Savior wrote: |
| greenwald certainly comes across as informed and intelligent, but he also comes across as a real-life concern troll |
Really? So if this were so and if progressives and democrats took his advice, held the administration's feet to the fire and got them to nominate someone who had an actual record of the kinds of views that democrats and progressives claim to endorse (like what conservatives did with Myers), this would somehow be harmful to them? I guess I'm not really seeing the "poisoned apples" in Greenwald's advice. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:35 am |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concern_troll#Concern_troll
| Quote: |
A concern troll is a false flag pseudonym created by a user whose actual point of view is opposed to the one that the user's sockpuppet claims to hold. The concern troll posts in web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group.[13]
An example of this occurred in 2006 when Tad Furtado, a top staffer for then-Congressman Charles Bass (R-NH), was caught posing as a "concerned" supporter of Bass's opponent, Democrat Paul Hodes, on several liberal New Hampshire blogs, using the pseudonyms "IndieNH" or "IndyNH". "IndyNH" expressed concern that Democrats might just be wasting their time or money on Hodes, because Bass was unbeatable.[14][15]
Although the term "concern troll" originated in discussions of online behavior, it now sees increasing use to describe similar behaviors that take place offline.
For example, James Wolcott of Vanity Fair accused a conservative New York Daily News columnist of "concern troll" behavior in his efforts to downplay the Mark Foley scandal. Wolcott links what he calls concern trolls to Saul Alinsky's "Do-Nothings", giving a long quote from Alinsky on the Do-Nothing's method and effects:
“ These Do-Nothings profess a commitment to social change for ideals of justice, equality, and opportunity, and then abstain from and discourage all effective action for change. They are known by their brand, 'I agree with your ends but not your means.'[16] ”
In a more recent example, The Hill published an op-ed piece by Markos Moulitsas of the liberal blog Daily Kos titled "Dems: Ignore 'Concern Trolls' ". Again, the concern trolls in question were not Internet participants; they were Republicans offering public advice and warnings to the Democrats. The author defines "concern trolling" as "offering a poisoned apple in the form of advice to political opponents that, if taken, would harm the recipient".[17] |
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| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:23 pm |
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| Dark Age Iron Savior wrote: |
| I don't think Greenwald actually is a concern troll, and I don't think the things he advocates in general are poor ideas, but every time I see his name, it's pretty much in the context of "why what Obama is doing is terrible and an affront to those who voted for him". |
He does provide plenty of ammo for that crowd, but I think his is ammo which can be used to attack the administration legitimately as it's always based in something factual. No need to make up crap about birth certificates or death panels when there are plenty of actual policies worth going after. Although I find it interesting that Republicans and conservatives don't attack the administration on the same grounds that Greenwald attacks them (civil liberties, national security state), because they largely agree with the direction the administration is going with regard to those issues.
| Dark Age Iron Savior wrote: |
| That seems to be a bit of niche he's carved out, and like most people who find themselves writing/reporting a certain kind of story over and over, there's a pretty strong temptation to bend the facts closer to the established narrative than a set of fresh eyes might feel is appropriate. |
It is something of a niche, unfortunately, and one he carved out during the Bush II years if that helps explain anything. But what would you have him do? Withhold criticism for a few years to "give Obama a chance" or something? I think if you've got a legitimate concern over the actions and policies of your government you should probably air them publicly no matter who's in charge, just to create the opportunity for the leadership to get that kind of feedback that comes with public debate.
Will the opposition use that against you? Of course, that's what they do. There is no protection against that sort of thing, it will happen no matter what you do. So why let it stifle debate and dissenting views? _________________
| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:25 pm |
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That's a fair point, which is why I didn't feel the need to address it.
I suppose my post took the stifling debate/criticism tone because that's sort of where I see a lot of the Obama defenders heading whenever someone says something unkind about their Glorious Leader*.
*Not to say that DAIS is an administration apologist but sometimes he kind-of comes off as one (though that may be due more to my own biases than his)
The reason I am disappointed with Obama. You can see why a lot of people are disillusioned about the whole thing. I guess that's what you get for believing campaign promises. This paragraph in particular reflects my own feelings:
| Quote: |
| I am, fundamentally, an admirer of Barack Obama. I like his temperament, I like his worldview, and I like his management style. As I've said before, he has a habit of disappointing me just a little bit on an almost routine basis, but most of the time that doesn't interfere with my basic admiration. The one exception has been his attitude toward civil liberties and terrorism. His early ban on torture was profoundly welcome, but aside from that he's mostly continued Bush-era policies with only minor changes and then added to them things that Bush and Cheney could only have dreamed of. In this one area, I feel betrayed. |
Pragmatism, amirite. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:44 pm |
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| Cocaine Socialist wrote: |
| He's got my vote. |
Nah, vote for this guy instead.Please don't
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

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Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 12:38 pm |
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| Adilegian wrote: |
| But yes I am dreading apocalyptic consequences of this. |
http://digitaljournal.com/article/292626
| Quote: |
A new oil plume, 22 miles in length, has been discovered below the surface of the Gulf of Mexico, and stretches from the leaking BP wellhead northeast toward Mobile Bay, Alabama.
Marine scientists aboard the Weatherbird II have discovered what they believe is a massive new oil plume situated in deep waters of the Gulf of Mexico. The plume is located just beneath the surface down to a depth of 3,300 feet, with the greatest concentration of hydrocarbons at about 1,300 feet, suggesting the highest levels of environmental pollution from the BP disaster may be located out of sight in the Gulf’s deep waters. |
| Quote: |
Where the first significant oil plume was discovered southwest of the explosion site and headed toward open waters, the newest oil plume is believed to be headed inland toward shallower waters that are a reproductive area for many fish and ocean species.
According to the Maddux News Wire, Hollander said: “Our concern regarding these contaminants is they have the potential to be incorporated in the food web.” |
| Quote: |
Estimates by government scientists have cast doubt on BP’s ongoing assertion of 5,000 barrels of crude escaping from a ruptured pipe on the seafloor.
Two teams of scientists, the Mass Balance Team and the Plume Modeling Team, have been assembled by the US government to estimate the flow of crude oil from the wellhead. Their preliminary numbers indicate that flow is 2 1/2 to five times greater than BP and Coast Guard estimates. If so, that means between 504,000 to more than a million gallons per day of crude has been pouring into the Gulf since the disaster began on April 20. |
Regardless of whether they get this thing plugged up sooner or later the damage is pretty much done, it only remains to be seen to what degree we have to deal with it. It's a given that marine life in that part of the Gulf is screwed, but how does this affect the rest of us?
Gulf Coast Seafood: Fishing Industry Threatened Indefinitely By Oil Slick
Fishing and tourism will be affected. Woe to those communities that can't survive without those industries. The impact of this spill is probably going to be felt for decades. It's a real game-changer. And in the immediate term it might end up affecting more than just the coastal states.
NOAA’s 2010 Atlantic Hurricane Season Outlook calls for an 85% chance of an above normal season.
Oooh boy. Rains from hurricanes can reach the midwest and other parts of the middle of the country. I know it's not unusual for us in Oklahoma to get rain from Gulf Coast hurricanes during the season. How much crude and the dispersants they've been spraying on it are going to get picked up in the rains? What affect will this have on the crops we grow in those parts of the country that will receive those rains? If polluted rains start killing crops we might be facing some potentially very serious food supply issues.
Granted, that's just a worst-case scenario. Maybe we'll be lucky and won't be affected in that way. Maybe the damage will stay mostly isolated to the coastal communities. That's still a massive problem for that part of the country. But it's not hard at all to imagine apocalyptic consequences from this disaster.
Interestingly, the word apocalypse has one meaning as "an act of prophetic revelation" and revelation means "to reveal". This disaster will be revealing in a number of ways. It will reveal the fragility of the ecosystem, as well as the ability of our major institutions (private and public) to deal with and respond to something truly catastrophic. Such interesting times we live in. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 1:05 pm |
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Anyone want to start taking bets on how soon before nuking the gulf starts getting bandied about as a last resort solution? I'm saying two to three weeks from now. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

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Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 3:39 pm |
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I hope it works for us as well. Do you have any data of the radiological impact on the environment from the Russian well sites? _________________
| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 6:50 am |
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| Bo 0 wrote: |
| Mr. Mechanical wrote: |
| Do you have any data of the radiological impact on the environment from the Russian well sites? |
Uh... no, sorry. Although wouldn't it be hard to come across? |
Probably. Wikipedia has some general information from underground nuclear tests though. This bit listed under "effects" was interesting.
| Quote: |
| The effects of an underground nuclear test may vary according to factors including the depth and yield of the explosion, as well as the nature of the surrounding rock.[25] If the test is conducted at sufficient depth, the test is said to be contained, with no venting of gases or other contaminants to the environment.[25] In contrast, if the device is buried at insufficient depth ("underburied"), then rock may be expelled by the explosion, forming a crater surrounded by ejecta, and releasing high-pressure gases to the atmosphere (the resulting crater is usually conical in profile, circular, and may range between tens to hundreds of metres in diameter and depth[26]). One figure used in determining how deeply the device should be buried is the scaled depth of burial, or -burst.[25] This figure is calculated as the burial depth in metres divided by the cube root of the yield in kilotons. It is estimated that, in order to ensure containment, this figure should be greater than 100.[25][27] |
So it sounds like as long as it's deep enough when it's exploded the impact on the surrounding environment can be fairly minimal. So if they do decide to go and nuke the leak some interesting figures to watch out for would be the yield of the device and the depth at which they're going to bury it before setting it off. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 7:18 am |
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Man waiting until August seems like an even worse option. I think a lot of people are mad that the government didn't step in and take more control from the start, considering the leak is very much a public health and welfare issue. I mean I get that line of reasoning that says BP are probably in the best position to deal with this, since this is what they do for a living, but it's like the financial crisis all over again. Can't we get some outside experts to look at the problem? Maybe some people who don't have a financial incentive and legal obligation to limit their liability as much as possible. _________________
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 7:40 am |
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Some perspective: Nigeria's agony dwarfs the Gulf oil spill. The US and Europe ignore it
| Quote: |
Forest and farmland were now covered in a sheen of greasy oil. Drinking wells were polluted and people were distraught. No one knew how much oil had leaked. "We lost our nets, huts and fishing pots," said Chief Promise, village leader of Otuegwe and our guide. "This is where we fished and farmed. We have lost our forest. We told Shell of the spill within days, but they did nothing for six months."
That was the Niger delta a few years ago, where, according to Nigerian academics, writers and environment groups, oil companies have acted with such impunity and recklessness that much of the region has been devastated by leaks.
In fact, more oil is spilled from the delta's network of terminals, pipes, pumping stations and oil platforms every year than has been lost in the Gulf of Mexico |
Damn. _________________
| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 2:46 pm |
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| Greenwald wrote: |
| Just ponder what we'd be hearing if Iran had raided a humanitarian ship in international waters and killed 15 or so civilians aboard. |
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| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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Mr. Mechanical ontological terrorist

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Scare Room 99
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Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:02 am |
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New Delhi: Turkey has threatened Israel with unprecedented action after Israeli forces attacked an aid vessel, killing 10 peace activists headed to Gaza.
Israel said 10 people died while those on the ship said at least 15 were killed.
A shocked world has responded with outrage. Turkey recalled its ambassador to Israel and warned of unprecedented and incalculable reprisals.
Two Turkish activists were reported to be among those killed in the flotilla. Ankara warned that further supply vessels will be sent to Gaza, escorted by the Turkish Navy, a development with unpredictable consequences.
| Greenwald again wrote: |
UPDATE VII: The formal statement submitted to the U.N. by the U.S. Ambassador today rather clearly seeks to blame everyone -- from Hamas to those attempting to deliver the aid -- for what happened: everyone, that is, except for the party which actually did the illegal seizing of the ship and the killing (Israel):
| Quote: |
| As I stated in the Chamber in December 2008, when we were confronted by a similar situation, mechanisms exist for the transfer of humanitarian assistance to Gaza by member states and groups that want to do so. These non-provocative and non-confrontational mechanisms should be the ones used for the benefit of all those in Gaza. Direct delivery by sea is neither appropriate nor responsible, and certainly not effective, under the circumstances. . . . We will continue to engage the Israelis on a daily basis to expand the scope and type of goods allowed into Gaza to address the full range of the population’s humanitarian and recovery needs. Hamas’ interference with international assistance shipments and the work of nongovernmental organizations complicates efforts in Gaza. Its continued arms smuggling and commitment to terrorism undermines security and prosperity for Palestinians and Israelis alike. |
Given that the Israelis refuse to allow anything other than the most minimal "necessities" to enter Gaza, I'd love to know what "non-provocative and non-confrontational mechanisms" exist to deliver humanitarian assistance? And it's extraordinary that we refuse to condemn a blockade that, as classic "collective punishment," is a clear violation of the Geneva Conventions, and even refuse to condemn today's violent seizure of ships in international water. But, of course, the central rule of American politics is that Israel cannot be criticized, even as the rest of the world condemns it. How do you think the rest of the world will perceive the U.S.'s extreme, out-of-step protection of the Israelis, while subtly (or not-so-subtly) heaping the blame on the victims of its aggression? |
Meanwhile: Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran _________________
| internisus wrote: |
| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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