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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:20 pm        Reply with quote

Exactly. So what could be better than turning himself in and making a media circus out of the fact that this is an obvious and thuggish attempt to trap him in some stupid archaic law because he rocked the boat of the Powers That Be?
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:25 am        Reply with quote

I don't think that's the point at all. Remember that the Constitution is a response to the highly ineffectual Articles of Confederation, which were designed precisely to prevent the federal government from doing anything. It worked so well that it was a disaster that everyone knew they needed to fix ten years in. The whole point is to grant some pretty hefty powers to the feds. Of course the Constitution can fairly be read extremely broadly and extremely strictly, but there's absolutely nothing in the document itself or even in the political philosophy that spawned it to suggest that the strict reading is the correct one.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:50 pm        Reply with quote

Vikram Ray wrote:
I suppose by "very little would get done" I meant very little in comparison to what we have now. We wouldn't engage in pre-emptive war for dubious reasons, we wouldn't have draconian Federal drug laws, we wouldn't be spending taxpayer money bailing out corrupt monopolistic corporations and financial institutions, protecting the rights of the wealthiest 1% of Americans while leaving everyone else to rot, giving people gold stars for good behavior, et cetera. They'd instead be doing things like protecting free speech and the rights of individuals rather than corporations.

Actually no, the expanded federal powers that let them do all the things you like also let them do all the things you hate. Remember, in Paul's reading of the Constitution, it's not that things wouldn't be legislated, it's just that they would be legislated by the states instead of the feds. For the federal government to spend its time "protecting rights" rather than fighting preemptive wars etc etc, it needs to be able to have the authority to overrule states when they do in fact infringe rights. But then, it will also have the authority to force them to go along with fighting preemptive wars etc etc. You can't have it both ways.

Baseballkappe wrote:
This sort of strict religious adherence to The Constitution is something that seems very specific to the US, and it creeps me out to no end. And it's such a short constitution too and then you get into the Intentions of the Founding Fathers and what it all means what did they bestow upon us, and how to best keep it true to the spirit of the 1780s because that is relevant to our current sensibilities.

True, many Americans have an almost religious adherence to the Constitution which is silly and antithetical to the document itself, but democracies without written constitutions have those same people adhering to some vague nationalistic notion of "our culture" and "the law." This is worse. Given the choice, I'd rather be ruled by mesnchy exegetic rules lawyers than batty fascists.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:26 pm        Reply with quote

It is really the case. Every single instance of institutional racism, oppression, and segregation that the federal government attempted to cure was defended on precisely these grounds: it's the state's right to legislate these matters without federal interference, because the feds lack constitutional authority to dictate otherwise. It's facile to say "the federal government has the responsibility to uphold the Constitution": so - what does the Constitution say? What if the states and the feds disagree about what it says? Who gets to decide? Paul's answer is, the states always get to decide. But I don't see anything in the Constitution that says that.

Of course, for "strict constructionists" (a silly term) to insist on divining the "Founder's intent" to figure out what exactly the Constitution says is ridiculous for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that the debate raged even while the Constitution was being written and signed, and has been raging ever since. There is no consolidated intent, there never was, and that alone is proof positive that the Constitution admits of more than one interpretation - including one that allows for vast federal powers.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:32 am        Reply with quote

Vikram Ray wrote:
CubaLibre wrote:
Of course, for "strict constructionists" (a silly term) to insist on divining the "Founder's intent" to figure out what exactly the Constitution says is ridiculous for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that the debate raged even while the Constitution was being written and signed, and has been raging ever since. There is no consolidated intent, there never was, and that alone is proof positive that the Constitution admits of more than one interpretation - including one that allows for vast federal powers.


So then what's the point of even having a Constitution at all if we the People who it's written for are just going to concede that it's impossible to Interpret and thus have our government adhere to? It's apparently as impossible to interpret correctly as the King James Bible, so we'll just forget about it and let the Federal government do whatever they fucking want.

The entire apparatus of the US government (states included) is set up by the Constitution to do exactly this task. You apparently disagree with the results it's come up with so far, but that doesn't mean they're illegitimate. Whether they lead to bad policies is up for debate, but whether they are allowed by the Constitution to do so has already been answered by the structure that the Constitution puts in place to determine such questions. If that sounds reflexive and circular, it is: but you come up with a better solution.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:07 pm        Reply with quote

Isfet wrote:
Prisoners Strike in Georgia

This won't come to anything, but it's wonderful.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:18 am        Reply with quote

Again: never has it not been this way. I guess they used to be slightly less monolithic, but the powerlessness of common people is not a new story.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:10 pm        Reply with quote

Swimmy wrote:
(Hey Cuba, any court cases of this nature you know of, where the incomplete terms specifically related to speech?)

No, but you're right, it would be a contract case.

Being roundabout isn't an absolute obstacle. Note that Amazon is denying that they're conforming to government pressure.[/quote]
If you could prove that the government was strongarming corporations into preventing them from offering platforms for certain kinds of speech, that would absolutely be a First Amendment violation. Thing is, you're never going to prove that.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:54 pm        Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
just according to keikaku

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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:54 pm        Reply with quote

Best top post or worst top post?
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:53 pm        Reply with quote

We could just wall off Manhattan.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:26 am        Reply with quote

Mr. Mechanical wrote:
http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/explorer

Hey what do you know I live in the whitest part of my town. 92% white uih.

Wow. Type in 20001, my DC zip code. Almost complete east-west segregation along ninth street, with the fancy circles (Thomas, Scott) on the western white side. It's something everyone knows but it's crazy to see it in black and white (green and blue) like that. (For the record, I live east of the divide.)
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:40 pm        Reply with quote

The little details are the best. West of the divide there's kind of a heavy black/white mix "bubble" where it looks like blacks are pushing into the white neighborhoods around U St. and Howard (although in reality those are historic black neighborhoods and it's really the whites that are pushing in). Meanwhile the entire east of the city is solid black except for this lily white enclave right on Capitol Hill. And it extends outward too: from Georgetown and upper northwest it goes out into northern Virginia and Bethesda (caucasia); from northeast and southeast it stretches east out into PG County and directly north into Silver Spring and parts of Montgomery County. The completeness of the segregation is pretty astounding considering it's done by 100% private decisions.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:58 am        Reply with quote

They'll handle it the exact same way, except now gay soldiers don't have to pretend they aren't.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:19 am        Reply with quote

Looks like Mssrs. Nevils and Kitarogers shoulda had better lawyers.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:34 am        Reply with quote

Texican Rude wrote:
What is a count of delivery exactly?

Sounds like a weird Missouri version of distribution.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:37 am        Reply with quote

The only thing about it that's funny to me is that Missourians consider it a "big drug bust." That's an average week in PG County.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:57 pm        Reply with quote

Yeah. An element of drug crimes is that the thing possessed/distributed/whatever is in fact the drug in question. Fake substances that you pass off for illegal ones are a lesser crime, but still a crime. I guess because it contributes to the drug trade and its surrounding crime and misery and... stuff. Don't ask me, the legislature makes crimes, not the court.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:48 am        Reply with quote

Mr. Mechanical wrote:
Warrantless cell phone search gets a green light in California

Remember, Bible Belters, California courts are liberal.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:37 am        Reply with quote

sawtooth wrote:
Take It Sleazy wrote:
i basically only say that as partial caution because his favorite books from his youtube and myspace pages seem to be all over the political spectrum and he seems to have more mental problems than just tea party views


Yeah, I saw that. But reading list aside, the incoherent right wing mishmash that constitutes his political views is nothing out of the ordinary even among our elected officials.

"Incoherent right wing mishmash" is the definition of tea party "views." They revel in it. "Can't pin us down - we're a real grassroots organization - we don't have a platform."
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:47 pm        Reply with quote

glossolalia wrote:
i'd rather the primary public discussion this spurred was about gun control or mental health care but lol

These are certainly what most centrist op-ed sites like Slate are banging on about.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:42 pm        Reply with quote

I think I should change your title to canon guardian.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:14 pm        Reply with quote

You guys don't get it. In Britain, there's politics, and then there's government. Totally different.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:56 pm        Reply with quote

I guess that's really more like an Overseer blimp.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:32 pm        Reply with quote

Why is that Jesus white?
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:27 pm        Reply with quote

Quote:
"He was at the Constitutional Convention," Pearce said. "He understood how this whole thing was going to be set up."

Actually, Jefferson was far away, in France, as the framers met in 1787 in Philadelphia to replace the Articles of Confederation.

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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:28 am        Reply with quote

Mr. Mechanical wrote:
I read some other analysis that seemed to indicate the Muslim Brotherhood, the political group over there that worries the American hawks, aren't actually as extreme as they once were. For instance, they no longer endorse violence and seem genuinely interested in participating in the democratic process. Which seems to me to be what it's all about. Tons of people in that part of the world aren't extremists wishing death to the West but are in fact secular moderates like a lot of people in this part of the world, and I think they're the ones making up the majority of the protests.

There are tons of examples of secular, pro-democracy Arab movements ousting traditional despots and getting co-opted by Muslim extremists, putting a theocracy in the autocracy's place. Iraq was supposed to be the place where we started actually supporting the secularist democrats against both authoritarianisms instead of playing the autocrats against the theocrats and leaving the democrats out to dry (the Kissinger "realist" model). We've had what at best you could call extremely mixed results. These protests seem more natural, but I can't help but be skeptical about their ultimate effect.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:43 pm        Reply with quote

remote wrote:
holy shit, what

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/south-dakota-hb-1171-legalize-killing-abortion-providers

Sweet lord.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:57 pm        Reply with quote

Yes defense of another is a legal defense. Since it's basically impossible to imagine a situation where the fetus' life could be threatened apart from the mother's, except abortion, it's clearly an incitement to murder abortion providers.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:27 pm        Reply with quote

Yeah. He has no ideology, he's a clown, a court jester who will fly anything that gets a cheer or jeer.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:24 pm        Reply with quote

The 40 hour workweek is law(l) now guys. No unions needed.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:51 pm        Reply with quote

Toto wrote:
When did America become proto-fascist?

The Tea Party is the latest, but there's always been fascism sympathizers in every liberal democracy. Why is an interesting question but one I'm not really prepared to answer. Why it's swelling now - economic instability, same as always.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:44 pm        Reply with quote

Mr. Mechanical wrote:
Basically everyone needs to start changing their consciousness about everything and start doing it yesterday.

This was Marx's prescription as well. Didn't work out so well.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:33 pm        Reply with quote

I mean, "changing your consciousness" is a really vague term that could mean almost anything. I just thought you were echoing Marx specifically because he almost verbatim says that a "fundamental shift in human consciousness" is required for the coming of communism, at least in the translation I'm familiar with. Coincidence it seems.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:31 pm        Reply with quote

Actually, more than him too.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:09 pm        Reply with quote

Commerce clause easily covers universal healthcare. Conservatives complain, what doesn't the commerce clause cover? The answer is, basically nothing. But that's not the fault of the New Deal and scheming liberal judges; it's the fault of technology. "Intrastate commerce" and "interstate commerce" mean the same things they did in 1800; it's just that in the past 200 years almost all commerce has moved into the latter category. If that means that physical reality has made the federal government, as described by the Constitution, less a government of limited powers and more a government of plenary powers, well, that's not the fault of the government or judges or the Constitution or the long-dead white guys who wrote it. Shit changes.

It's pretty funny, conservatives will often argue that this kind of universal federal regulation isn't covered by the Constitution, so if we liberals want it, by god we should amend the damn Constitution. But it's they who have to amend the Constitution, by limiting the now-overbroad commerce clause and picking out which particular areas of commerce that, despite being interstate, the federal government should not have regulatory power over. Good luck with that.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:48 pm        Reply with quote

a masterful series
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:44 am        Reply with quote

I am an atheist and there are plenty of things I'd kill for.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 4:22 am        Reply with quote

They're amerindians ok.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 4:48 am        Reply with quote

You literally said that if religion were ended most wars would disappear. I said that I have no religion and would willingly participate in all kinds of wars. It's a direct counterargument.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 1:57 am        Reply with quote

For how long?
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