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Isfet
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: A New York
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 Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:17 pm |
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"Giuliani: Terrorists Never Attacked When Bush Protected Us"
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Adilegian
Rogue Scholar
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:22 pm |
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stfu dracko the meteoric fall of a multi-licensed athlete is a compromise to the utmost integrity of all that is american
sorry
i meant to wrote "american lol"
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Dracko
a sapphist fool
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:33 pm |
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| Adilegian wrote: |
| fuck buddhism |
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Adilegian
Rogue Scholar
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:40 pm |
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| Dracko wrote: |
| Adilegian wrote: |
| fuck buddhism |
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now we're talking
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:42 pm |
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| Man I love that at least tow conservative commentators have siad there were no terrorist attacks while bush was president now. That is some great shit. |
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:35 am |
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| Isfet wrote: |
| "Giuliani: Terrorists Never Attacked When Bush Protected Us" |
This blows my god damned mind.
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:30 am |
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Haha he must have totally forgot about 9/11, the anthrax-in-the-mail, and that guy with explosives in his shoes.
Or he's just a partisan waste of space.
edit-The beltway sniper was pretty terrifying as I recall. Tried to paint that as a terrorist attack back then.
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negativedge
banned
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:06 am |
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well, it was a terrorist attack.
people forget that terrorism isn't just the domain pseudo-state sponsored islamic fundamentalists |
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:22 am |
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Yeah, it was terrorism but not Terrorism, if you follow. There's terrorism, which is usually politically/ideologically motivated, and then there's what's convenient for the government to label as such. Before 9/11 we would have called the beltway sniper a crazy person acting crazy*, not a terrorist.
Granted, the guy supposedly admired bin Laden or something. Still.
Or I guess to put it another way: Would you consider what Klebold/Harris did at Columbine an "act of terrorism"?
*I am aware that labeling such acts as "crazy" does not help to understand the motivations people have to commit those acts in the first place
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Dracko
a sapphist fool
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:10 am |
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| Mr. Mechanical wrote: |
| Would you consider what Klebold/Harris did at Columbine an "act of terrorism"? |
Certainly.
Why wouldn't you?
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ninjafetus
Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:45 am |
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| Well, defining terrorism can get murky, but one definition that I think is pretty good is "the threatened or actual use of illegal force and violence by a non state actor to attain a political, economic, religious, or social goal through fear, coercion, or intimidation." |
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DonMarco
graphics fucker
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:14 am |
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| CubaLibre wrote: |
| Isfet wrote: |
| "Giuliani: Terrorists Never Attacked When Bush Protected Us" |
This blows my god damned mind. |
My stupid 9/11 conspiracy-seeking mind is thinking this is a Freudian slip? Sure!
Or he will backpedal saying he was thinking of Bush senior, in a conversation comparing Obama to Bush junior.
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Adilegian
Rogue Scholar
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:45 am |
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| CubaLibre wrote: |
| Isfet wrote: |
| "Giuliani: Terrorists Never Attacked When Bush Protected Us" |
This blows my god damned mind. |
I know. It hurts.
The best I can say of this is that it's a cynical attempt to use media as a way to alter the perception of recent history. In reality, though, it's probably just stupidity.
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Dracko
a sapphist fool
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:07 pm |
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| Dracko wrote: |
| Mr. Mechanical wrote: |
| Would you consider what Klebold/Harris did at Columbine an "act of terrorism"? |
Certainly.
Why wouldn't you? |
I don't know. To me, the word "terrorist" has too much of a political definition to it.
Also, what ninjafetus said. For what higher cause were they shooting up their school?
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Dracko
a sapphist fool
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:11 pm |
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The "kill all fascist jock itches" goal.
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:12 pm |
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Ok I can see that.
Kind of seems like it cheapens the word's meaning though, since if you apply it to Columbine you can pretty much apply it to anything else anyone does that intentionally results in someone getting killed. Suddenly everything is terrorism.
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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ninjafetus
Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:11 pm |
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Yeah, Colombine was terrible, but I'd be hard pressed to call it terrorism. The discussion is not just academic, either. In the next decade we can reasonably expect an increased level of violence from non-state actors in unstable nations in Africa, as well as continuing conflicts in the middle east. From the perspective of the US (and NATO, for that matter), acts of terrorism targeting us are governed by different policies and laws than those governing other acts of violence. If everything can be called "terrorism", then those laws and policies will most likely be ignored or challenged.
Of course, how we deal with terrorism is already an active, unresolved political issue, and I don't necessarily see an end in sight anytime soon. Finding a more specific set of criteria would be beneficial to both sides of the issue: a more narrow definition would lead to less social liberties challenges and allow the military to more easily pursue those who seek to war on us. |
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Shiren the Launderer
Joined: 25 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:55 pm |
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| Mr. Mechanical wrote: |
Ok I can see that.
Kind of seems like it cheapens the word's meaning though, since if you apply it to Columbine you can pretty much apply it to anything else anyone does that intentionally results in someone getting killed. Suddenly everything is terrorism. |
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:34 pm |
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| Shiren the Launderer wrote: |
| Mr. Mechanical wrote: |
Ok I can see that.
Kind of seems like it cheapens the word's meaning though, since if you apply it to Columbine you can pretty much apply it to anything else anyone does that intentionally results in someone getting killed. Suddenly everything is terrorism. |
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Mainly the problem I have with throwing on the terrorism label so cavalierly is that US laws define terrorists/enemy combatants as "non-persons" who therefore have no human rights, so it's no big deal if they're tortured/disappeared indiscriminately (so the argument goes).
Also calling someone a terrorist says nothing about motive. It's just a judgment on that person/group that says you don't approve of what they're doing, and does nothing to get at the heart of why they were doing it.
I think at this point it's just a scare word more than anything else. A convenient bogeyman for the public to rally against. "Terrorist" is the new "witch" these days.
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DonMarco
graphics fucker
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:10 am |
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We should equip all terror suspects should be equipped with exploding underwear. If they fail to explode the person is an actual terrorist. If the underwear explodes and kill the occupant they were not a terrorist.
I don't see a downside to proposing this to the Red States... If fact, it would save a bundle in transporting them from Gitmo to the states if a good chunk of them dies horribly IN CUBA.
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:33 am |
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Google, Citing Cyber Attack, Threatens to Exit China
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| BEIJING — Google said Tuesday that it would stop cooperating with Chinese Internet censorship and consider shutting down its operations in the country altogether, citing assaults from hackers on its computer systems and China’s attempts to “limit free speech on the Web.” |
Google's response on the GoogleBlog
| Quote: |
| Like many other well-known organizations, we face cyber attacks of varying degrees on a regular basis. In mid-December, we detected a highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google. However, it soon became clear that what at first appeared to be solely a security incident--albeit a significant one--was something quite different. |
http://twitter.com/wikileaks
| Quote: |
gossip inside google China is gov hackers found infiltrating google source code repository; gmail attacks an old issue.
Gossip from within google.cn is Shanghai office used as CN gov attack stage in US source code network. |
Daaaamn. Is China launching a cyber war?
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| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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psiga
saudade
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:48 am |
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14/f/cn 
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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Takashi
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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Toptube
Anti-cabbage Party Candidate
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:48 am |
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| Mr. Mechanical wrote: |
Google, Citing Cyber Attack, Threatens to Exit China
| Quote: |
| BEIJING — Google said Tuesday that it would stop cooperating with Chinese Internet censorship and consider shutting down its operations in the country altogether, citing assaults from hackers on its computer systems and China’s attempts to “limit free speech on the Web.” |
Google's response on the GoogleBlog
| Quote: |
| Like many other well-known organizations, we face cyber attacks of varying degrees on a regular basis. In mid-December, we detected a highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google. However, it soon became clear that what at first appeared to be solely a security incident--albeit a significant one--was something quite different. |
http://twitter.com/wikileaks
| Quote: |
gossip inside google China is gov hackers found infiltrating google source code repository; gmail attacks an old issue.
Gossip from within google.cn is Shanghai office used as CN gov attack stage in US source code network. |
Daaaamn. Is China launching a cyber war? |
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1035179190&postcount=75 |
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Dark Age Iron Savior
king of finders
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Location: Spacecraft, Juanelia Country
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| Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:34 am |
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| feeling strangely optimistic about the federal court hearing of Lesbian vs Terminator |
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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psiga
saudade
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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Dark Age Iron Savior
king of finders
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Location: Spacecraft, Juanelia Country
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:01 am |
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| Mr. Mechanical wrote: |
| can we arrest Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld now? |
if only the world was so simple
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:18 am |
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I know, right! Was being facetious there but still. "Where's the accountability?!" *
There's way too much shit going on in the world right now. I want to just run away and live on a mountaintop by myself for a few years.
*Crappy reference to an old Burger King commercial sorry
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:32 pm |
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| Mr. Mechanical wrote: |
I know, right! Was being facetious there but still. "Where's the accountability?!" *
*Crappy reference to an old WENDY'S commercial sorry |
Man don't make Dave Thomas come back from the dead and adopt some more kids. |
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Winona Ghost Ryder
lives in a monochromatic world
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:30 pm |
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Die Pat Robertson
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| You are a pretty fucked up guy. |
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negativedge
banned
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:33 pm |
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| he just does this stuff for publicity these days. I don't think he believes in anything anymore. |
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:35 am |
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All the big televangelists are transparent money-grubbing hacks. The worst of them never believed anything and are in it for the money alone. The best of them may have believed something at some point, have long since lost their faith, and are now stuck in a position where they can't do anything else.
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psiga
saudade
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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psiga
saudade
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:04 am |
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Heh. Yemeni religious leader threatens jihad if America invades. Well duh? I thought the population of religious radicals fleeing to Yemen already had their Facebook status set as such. Harboring the "enemy" makes you the "enemy," folks.
Wouldn't it be great if we could find a way to not invade? I think that would be great.
We should ask shiny new Fox News analyst, Sarah Palin, if she has any good ideas re: that.
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Adilegian
Rogue Scholar
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Scare Room 99
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:52 am |
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Another must-read column from Glenn Greenwald
| Quote: |
| Cass Sunstein has long been one of Barack Obama's closest confidants. Often mentioned as a likely Obama nominee to the Supreme Court, Sunstein is currently Obama's head of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs where, among other things, he is responsible for "overseeing policies relating to privacy, information quality, and statistical programs." In 2008, while at Harvard Law School, Sunstein co-wrote a truly pernicious paper proposing that the U.S. Government employ teams of covert agents and pseudo-"independent" advocates to "cognitively infiltrate" online groups and websites -- as well as other activist groups -- which advocate views that Sunstein deems "false conspiracy theories" about the Government. This would be designed to increase citizens' faith in government officials and undermine the credibility of conspiracists. The paper's abstract can be read, and the full paper downloaded, here. |
| Quote: |
He acknowledges that some "conspiracy theories" previously dismissed as insane and fringe have turned out to be entirely true (his examples: the CIA really did secretly administer LSD in "mind control" experiments; the DOD really did plot the commission of terrorist acts inside the U.S. with the intent to blame Castro; the Nixon White House really did bug the DNC headquarters). Given that history, how could it possibly be justified for the U.S. Government to institute covert programs designed to undermine anti-government "conspiracy theories," discredit government critics, and increase faith and trust in government pronouncements? Because, says Sunstein, such powers are warranted only when wielded by truly well-intentioned government officials who want to spread The Truth and Do Good -- i.e., when used by people like Cass Sunstein and Barack Obama:
Throughout, we assume a well-motivated government that aims to eliminate conspiracy theories, or draw their poison, if and only if social welfare is improved by doing so.
But it's precisely because the Government is so often not "well-motivated" that such powers are so dangerous. Advocating them on the ground that "we will use them well" is every authoritarian's claim. More than anything else, this is the toxic mentality that consumes our political culture: when our side does X, X is Good, because we're Good and are working for Good outcomes. That was what led hordes of Bush followers to endorse the same large-government surveillance programs they long claimed to oppose, and what leads so many Obama supporters now to justify actions that they spent the last eight years opposing. |
And the rest of the column is worth reading as well, I just didn't feel right quoting it in it's entirety.
As if the paranoid fringe wasn't already... well, paranoid. But it's like that saying "It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you". All of this just further reinforces my notion that you simply cannot trust anything anybody tells you anymore. In a world full of deceit each person seeking some kind of truth is truly an island unto themselves.fnord
Interestingly enough, I finished reading Illuminatus! Trilogy the other day so the whole "trust no one, not even me" gist of the book resonates strongly with me today. Then I read this Greenwald column and I start seeing the triangles within circles within triangles and shit. Maybe it's all just part of Operation Mindfuck.fnord
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