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TORUMASUTA more like LOLmaster amirite

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: united arab amirites
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:31 am Post subject: Useless Gaming Trivia: Star Control vs Little Witches |
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What's the intersection between a vast technological empire despoiling a primitive planet and Japanese anime witches? Read on to find out!
Paul Reiche III and Fred Ford, creators of cult classic Star Control II, are associated with a bizarre number of important, inspiring, and basically ignored games. Star Control II might be known among the better read, but a lot of the other stuff they worked on was either ahead of its time or so different from everything else that it left an impression. Although their company, Toys for Bob, is currently under the yoke of Corporate America and makes exciting titles such as "Madagascar 2" and "Disney's Extreme Skate Adventure" but their past history of games worked on should make any other game developer jealous. Not only do they have the beloved Star Control II and the original Star Control, but games like Archon, The Unholy War, Mail-Order Monsters, and others are accredited to them, with "special thanks" going to them for Toejam and Earl and Starflight. It's a list of Best Games You've Never Played, more or less.
The Unholy War specifically is an interesting one. A PSX title, it plays a bit like Archon, and a bit like the original Star Control. You're presented with a hex grid, with one player at each end, who control a base hex. You use money to buy units and send them across these hexes, attempting to claim money-producing hexes before your enemy can. With the money you gain from controlling these spaces, you can (hopefully) build more units and conquer the enemy's base. When two units meet, the two units fight it out in a 3D battle that plays like a planetary version of Star Control's melees, and each unit has a special ability it can use on the map (such as setting a hex on fire, or giving a chance of producing an extra unit). It's very easy to get into, but very addicting once you get into it, but unfortunately it's one of those games (like Bomberman) that only comes alive in the multiplayer mode, and was mostly looked down on for the less-than-stellar single player mode.
Now, out of all the games that Toys for Bob was known to produce, there's one that stands out in particular, and that's a Japanese-only title whose name apparently translates as "Little Witching Mischiefs." As near as I could tell, it was a game about some young anime girls who were also witches, and they did stuff, apparently. Notable among the cast was Cutie Honey, who doesn't really count as Little, nor technically is a Witch, but there's nothing wrong with a little Cutie Honey as far as I'm concerned, especially if she's up to some Mischief. I'd seen screenshots before of the game, and it looked a bit like The Unholy War, so much so that I was sure that the engine was most likely similar. For some reason, I couldn't find this Japanese-only game about and (optimistically) for little girls in America for some reason, so I never found out.
That was, until just a little while ago, when I saw the the screenshots over here.
For the uninitiated, which you almost certainly are, the enemies in those screens are from The Unholy War. The games are pretty drastic in tone, as the next two openings will show, so finding this out was kind of a surprise! You got your epic violent sci-fi thriller in my cute witch game! You got your cute witch game in my epic violent sci-fi thriller!
I couldn't sleep for weeks, because the burden of the questions was simpy too great to bear. Was Little Mischievous Witch Chappy inducted into the vast Teknos Empire via a dark ritual? Did the Arcane and Teknos sides become friends and team up against Japan? I had to find out, so I emailed Toys for Bob, and got back some interesting responses.
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Oh, we definitely remember Little Witching Mischiefs over here. It’s all we’ve spoken of really, for the last 10 years now.
It is true that the Unholy War’s engine, characters, and a design concept or two were used on LWM. They were both developed around the same time, with Unholy War being a few months ahead. Instead of putting out Unholy War in Japan, the Japanese publisher we were working with at the time, Bandai, wanted us to make a similar game but with Japanese anime characters in it instead. At first it was the Sailor Moon girls with Cutie Honey as well, who I guess is her own universe. Then the Sailor Moon chicks got pulled out for reasons I don’t remember and we were instead given these other cartoon girls that were apparently famous in Japan during the 50’s and swingin’ 60’s – Lun Lun, Poron, Mitsugo, Chappy – all your favorites! I don’t think we understood their respective stories or knew exactly what Bandai wanted us to do with them but we got a sense of what each character’s magic powers should be like and what side characters intersected with their stories. The one thing I don’t believe we got from Bandai at all was who the enemies should be so in the interest of time and ridiculousness, we used characters from not only Unholy War, but Pandemonium 1 and 2!
The game was never sold outside of Japan. Maybe it was never sold inside Japan for all we know. Like I mentioned earlier, communication was a little tough and strange. It was a pretty odd little game, based more on single-player campaign stuff than Unholy War’s hot head-to-head action although playing 2P strategy mode with Witches was surprisingly fun. Mainly because it wasn’t clear just how powerful some of those characters could be. Like there was this little boy who could turn into a rat, which might seem useless to some but in 2-player strategy mode, this was extremely valuable because the rat could move about twice as many spaces as any other character. Who knew? There was also a guy who could damage opponents magically by telling a bad joke. That was the level of insanity you were dealing with. |
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I don’t think the Teknos ever would have considered recruiting human children as witches. I think they probably would have tried to wipe those chicks out entirely. Especially Mantis. We used to call him “The Ladykiller.”
Go right ahead and post away, if you’d like. Hopefully we can sneak Wimbli’s trident into another game some day. And Kirk Cameron as well. |
So, in a way, it's basically the opposite of the Japan to US translation problems that we always see (though thankfully a lot less these days than the US era) where one hand doesn't know what the other is doing, and as an (awesome) consequence, there's a game about evil aliens being beaten up by cute witches.
Now all we need to do is find someone who worked on The Krion Conquest to find out why they took out the Japanese version's plot and the world's Cute Witches in Video Games knowledge will be complete.
Also, if Toys for Bob's next game features Kirk Cameron with a meteor-powered trident, YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST. _________________
www.mechadamashii.com -- God Bless the Machine |
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Persona-sama artistically unofficial

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: Now, let's travel to the forbidden world of churning love and pleasure!!
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:19 am |
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Whoa, they basically made the Super Robot Wars equivalent of magical girls from the 50s and 60s. That's amazing. _________________
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LordGek

Joined: 20 Dec 2006
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: Toys for Bob did Toejam and Earl? |
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While it definitely was a game almost in the same quirky style, I don't think there was any connection between the Toys for Bob crew and the Toejam and Earl crew.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toejam_and_Earl
But if there is actually some connection I'd love to hear it, perhaps Toejam and Earl's Johnson Voorsanger Productions (who then changed their name to Toejam and Earl Productions) shared some of the same developers? |
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TORUMASUTA more like LOLmaster amirite

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: united arab amirites
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Toys for Bob did Toejam and Earl? |
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| LordGek wrote: |
While it definitely was a game almost in the same quirky style, I don't think there was any connection between the Toys for Bob crew and the Toejam and Earl crew.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toejam_and_Earl
But if there is actually some connection I'd love to hear it, perhaps Toejam and Earl's Johnson Voorsanger Productions (who then changed their name to Toejam and Earl Productions) shared some of the same developers? |
Paul Reiche III and Fred Ford are listed in the credits to Toejam and Earl as "Invaluable Aid." I'm not sure what that means, but I took it to be a kind of "special thanks" of sorts. While they probably weren't part of the regular staff, apparently they contributed in some important way. _________________
www.mechadamashii.com -- God Bless the Machine |
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LordGek

Joined: 20 Dec 2006
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Toys for Bob did Toejam and Earl? |
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| TORUMASUTA wrote: |
| LordGek wrote: |
While it definitely was a game almost in the same quirky style, I don't think there was any connection between the Toys for Bob crew and the Toejam and Earl crew.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toejam_and_Earl
But if there is actually some connection I'd love to hear it, perhaps Toejam and Earl's Johnson Voorsanger Productions (who then changed their name to Toejam and Earl Productions) shared some of the same developers? |
Paul Reiche III and Fred Ford are listed in the credits to Toejam and Earl as "Invaluable Aid." I'm not sure what that means, but I took it to be a kind of "special thanks" of sorts. While they probably weren't part of the regular staff, apparently they contributed in some important way. |
Okay fair enough.
But, grr, as I'm ALL ABOUT THE ROGUELIKES and Toejam and Earl was clearly a neat attempt at fusing an action platformer with roguelike gameplay, just IMAGINE what the minds behind Star Control and other great classics could do if they set out to make something in the roguelike genre! Speaking of platforming roguelikes, have you all checked out the freeware Spelunky yet?
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=4017.0 |
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Dark Age Iron Savior

Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Location: At the intersection of fantasy, reality and madness
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:28 pm |
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Gek, I appreciate the way you try to focus and deliver on a single subject, but you probably should've taken a closer look at the front page/Force Feedback..
on topic: whoa _________________
| sawtooth wrote: |
| All I do is make a game about shooting viscous negroes |
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Vehicular Manslaughter Final Finasty

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:15 am Post subject: Re: Toys for Bob did Toejam and Earl? |
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| LordGek wrote: |
While it definitely was a game almost in the same quirky style, I don't think there was any connection between the Toys for Bob crew and the Toejam and Earl crew.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toejam_and_Earl
But if there is actually some connection I'd love to hear it, perhaps Toejam and Earl's Johnson Voorsanger Productions (who then changed their name to Toejam and Earl Productions) shared some of the same developers? |
They did. Robert Leyland is listed as a programmer for Star Control, Star Control II, the first Toejam and Earl and Panic on Funkotron. It wouldn't surprise me if there were other crossovers as well. _________________
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ionustron

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Ships cannot be airlifted, silly.
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Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:10 am |
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Man, Unholy War was fantastic, but kinda crash-prone. It was a Christmas gift my brother gave me one year, came out of left field, and then I read the back of the case; one of it's bullet points was from the creators of Star Controll II! or to that effect. We'd fire it up every few years.
I recall reading somewhere that there was much more silly story planned for the teams, but Eidos wanted nothing of it. Instead, we got little dry snippets of story in between single player missions.
That bit about the rat was interesting. I'm kinda curious to track down Internal Solitude Obituary of the game to see just how the game balance differed, and WTF Cutie Honey???
(This also reminds me to track down Wrath Unleashed later...) |
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TORUMASUTA more like LOLmaster amirite

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: united arab amirites
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Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:34 am |
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| ionustron wrote: |
I recall reading somewhere that there was much more silly story planned for the teams, but Eidos wanted nothing of it. Instead, we got little dry snippets of story in between single player missions.
That bit about the rat was interesting. I'm kinda curious to track down Internal Solitude Obituary of the game to see just how the game balance differed, and WTF Cutie Honey??? |
I've heard the same story about Eidos wanted to make Toys for Bob's games more serious. Not sure if it's true, but they went on to make games about Tony Hawk and his Downhill Jam, so I'd imagine that there's meddling somewhere.
Unholy War is such a good game that I can't play it with friends anymore. It's so involving, the threat of defeat meaning that your opponent has both outsmarted AND outplayed you is so great, that half an hour later both players are wild-eyed soulless creatures capable of lying, cheating and stealing their way to victory. That one guy on the jet bike might do a lucky suicide run and after that the police will have to break up the game.
If you find that Internal Solitude Obituary, send me a link, I haven't seen any in the wild in the usual places. _________________
www.mechadamashii.com -- God Bless the Machine |
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hebereke

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Useless Gaming Trivia: Star Control vs Little Witches |
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| TORUMASUTA wrote: |
| Now all we need to do is find someone who worked on The Krion Conquest to find out why they took out the Japanese version's plot and the world's Cute Witches in Video Games knowledge will be complete. |
i reckon there are two potential reasons for that one - either vic tokai usa, being a probably small and neglected american division of an already obscure japanese publisher, lacked the resources to translate the entire plot and opted instead to chop it out, OR they had it all done but they took it to a focus group of small american children who declared the storyline to be "gay" and thus with limited time to release all they could do was remove it.
either that or the preferred explanation of most of the people who write about this sort of thing; that the decision was made by someone who was simply evil and wished to deprive the world outside of japan of this extra content. |
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TORUMASUTA more like LOLmaster amirite

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: united arab amirites
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:27 am Post subject: Re: Useless Gaming Trivia: Star Control vs Little Witches |
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| hebereke wrote: |
| TORUMASUTA wrote: |
| Now all we need to do is find someone who worked on The Krion Conquest to find out why they took out the Japanese version's plot and the world's Cute Witches in Video Games knowledge will be complete. |
i reckon there are two potential reasons for that one - either vic tokai usa, being a probably small and neglected american division of an already obscure japanese publisher, lacked the resources to translate the entire plot and opted instead to chop it out, OR they had it all done but they took it to a focus group of small american children who declared the storyline to be "gay" and thus with limited time to release all they could do was remove it.
either that or the preferred explanation of most of the people who write about this sort of thing; that the decision was made by someone who was simply evil and wished to deprive the world outside of japan of this extra content. |
Vic Tokai, while working on Clash at Demonhead (aka Dengeki Big Bang! I think in Nippan) also removed a bit from the title sequence, but left most of it intact. It wasn't anything crucial to the plot; I think the Japanese intro just set up the idea that your girlfriend was also an agent of the organization you were working for, and your boss will be "taking good care of her" to the consternation of the main character. The boss sends you a letter during the game and talks about your girlfriend, and this comes from nowhere if you haven't heard about the Japanese intro. It's not a major point, though.
They also changed the title screen a bit, but the plain American one looks better than the pretty ugly Japanese one, so it's about 50/50.
Maybe someone who worked at Vic Tokai was in favour of shorter intros, and thought games were better off with (admittedly nonessential) information? If so, then that man is a REAL AMERICAN HERO, fighting against Metal Gear Solid's codec conversations about 20 years before they happened.
I doubt it was done to translate less text, simply because it would probably be easier to translate a tiny bit of text then it would be to remove the cinema, wouldn't it? From reading romhacking discussions, it always seemed like once you've got a working English text insertion method, then you're good to go unless you're working against space constraints, and it would probably be easier to translate than remove parts of the game. Maybe? _________________
www.mechadamashii.com -- God Bless the Machine |
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Cossix submersible administrator

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Location: San Jose
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:19 am |
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Toll you got linked on Tiny Cartridge how does this make you feel
Also are these seriously the guys that made Pandemonium 1 and 2? Those two games were pretty goddamn good. They reminded me a lot of those Hand of Fate adventure games. _________________ I play games sometimes |
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hebereke

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:35 am Post subject: Re: Useless Gaming Trivia: Star Control vs Little Witches |
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| TORUMASUTA wrote: |
| I doubt it was done to translate less text, simply because it would probably be easier to translate a tiny bit of text then it would be to remove the cinema, wouldn't it? From reading romhacking discussions, it always seemed like once you've got a working English text insertion method, then you're good to go unless you're working against space constraints, and it would probably be easier to translate than remove parts of the game. Maybe? |
vic tokai would have had the source code, though. given that, it would probably be much easier to just skip over the cut scenes entirely by removing a subroutine call or something than to translate all the text. if you just have the compiled binary (which is all romhackers would have) then making actual code changes are not so simple, whereas replacing text and graphics is comparatively more straightforward. |
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TORUMASUTA more like LOLmaster amirite

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: united arab amirites
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Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:38 am |
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Hey, I DID get linked by Tiny Cartridge! Between this and the time SiliconEra linked me, I think I may have finally hit the Big Time.
hebereke, you make a compelling argument. I still find it strange that they'd translate some of the game and not all of it unless they had a good reason to, but what you're saying probably makes more sense. _________________
www.mechadamashii.com -- God Bless the Machine |
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JohnH
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:06 am |
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I've never played, and sadly barely heard, of either of those games, but I can help explain Ford and Reiche's presence on TJ&E's credits. They've worked with Voorsanger and Johnson on games in the past. Greg Johnson, if memory serves, was lead designer on Star Control II, which is a very similar type of game to Starflight.
These are all among the most awesome people still working in U.S. game development. We should all mail them dollars and dollars. |
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Sketch

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:22 am |
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Wow, you actually contacted them to ask about LWM? Good man!
I'd always been curious about that, thinking it was simply a rebranding of Unholy War (which I'd played and enjoyed), but it seems the game was actually something a bit more than that!
You should do some kind of HG101 article on this. It's too interesting to sink into obscurity at the bottom of a forum board. _________________ GAMES OF THE WORLD: everything from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe |
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mrkboucher Guest
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Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:46 am |
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| The term empire derives from the Latin imperium batteries. Politically, an empire is a geographically extensive group of states and peoples (ethnic groups) united and ruled either by a monarch (emperor, empress) or an oligarchy. Geopolitically, the term empire has denoted very different, territorially-extreme states at the strong end, the extensive Spanish Empire (16th c.) online dvd rental and the British Empire (19th c.), at the weak end, the Holy Roman Empire (8th c.–19th c.), in its Medieval and early-modern forms, and the Byzantine Empire (15th c.), that was a direct continuation of the Roman Empire, that, in its final century of existence, was more a city-state than a territorial empire. Etymologically, the political usage of “empire” denotes a strong, centrally-controlled nation-state desktop computer, but, in the looser, quotidian, vernacular usage, it denotes a large-scale business enterprise (i.e. a transnational corporation) and a political organisation of either national-, regional-, or city scale, controlled either by a person (a political boss) phentermine or a group authority (political bosses). |
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CubaLibre

Joined: 02 Mar 2007 Location: The District
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Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:17 am |
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This is the worst one so far :( _________________
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