[apfEID]

So I am trying not to faq this at all but I am having a hell of a time with the only enemy in the game so far that gives me any challenge at all. The dude with the spear outside the room with "the old king" who talked to me for a few seconds when I dashed past this jerk.

He seemingly can shrug off my turpentine enhanced halberd at will, cancel out of moves mid-animation, has a one-hit kill thrust attack, has crazy good tracking when I strafe, and a lot of health. I've gotten him down to 40% or so a few times, but is killing me in ways that feel cheap over and over again. My last death? I told my character to roll to the side and instead he rolled directly forward into this dude. Rage.

What do I need to unlearn from Dark Souls to not lose to this guy?
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

ok, so I'm not at a dead end then if I can't kill him. I'll keep exploring. This stage is huge.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

haha, yeah, I'll liveblog my sessions for maximum entertainment. It's feeling a lot smaller now but I was having a hard time groking the layout in it's entirety

so I finally figured out that I really did have to cross the bridge with the dragon on it just like in dark souls.

I killed the first boss on my first try. I'm kinda easy mode-ing the early part of the game because I picked the templar knight who has a halberd, and I'd already +1'ed it, and then turpentined it, two handed it, and just went to goddamn town. Blammo.

Then I got bold and went into the next room without going to the nexus first. I killed all of the buggers in there too. Then I found a summon sign and summoned someone, and we went through that room, across some bridges with dragons overhead breathing fire in patterns, and ended up at another fog wall... where I found the tower knight. Oh hey, another enemy that shows up in Dark Souls, kinda. Oh hey, whoa, this is bad news.

I managed to run around, do maybe 50 points of damage, the summoned dude gets annihilated, I figure out there are stairs and run up them, kill a couple archers, and then used a stone to vanish back to the nexus.

After being told the monumental is waiting for me upstairs, I managed to suicide myself by accident because I was running too fast. HA.

I went back to 1-1 and killed the hell out of that spear guy.

I haven't gotten far enough into the game that calling a stage "1-1" makes sense yet. I did poke my nose into the second world, saw a crystal lizard, talked to the merchant....

I've mainly leveled endurance, some vitality, and a touch of strength. I have no idea what magic is like in this game and my character is really dumb so I am stuck with a tank with a bit of faith based healing if I don't re-roll. If anyone wants to lobby hard (with minimal spoilers) for a different build for a first play through, I'm all ears.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

So I started a new character as a Royal because I wanted to blast shit with soul arrows and played through to the Tower Knight tonight.

At first timing the dragon attacks was pretty annoying, but then I used my brain for a second and realized the patterns were dead easy.

I found a short cut door inside, from both sides of it, but couldn't figure out how to open it. Is there a way? Again at the other end, there seemed to be a door that should open behind the merchant, and I found a set of rollers that should open it, but looks like it needs two people to operate. There was also a "Friend" message near by the first door I couldn't open. I think the NPC in the first stage died; I got killed (very stupidly) just after triggering him, and I saw him immediately afterward killing folks in the distance, but never again. This is the kind of thing that makes not FAQ-ing a little annoying. Have I "ruined" my game already?

The Tower Knight was a little tedious in that I kept dying over and over again. Eventually I figured out the melee way to kill it, and then kept dying trying, got pissed, then went off to grind a little to get the Heater Shield and to sink some more levels into Endurance and Strength (to lift the shield), and a stack of turpentine, and finally killed the fucker.

That answered my next question: am I supposed to do all of 1-X before 2-1. Apparently not, as I can't move beyond 1-2 yet, at least not through the fog gate in the Tower Knight room.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

I accidentally used the Spider Demon's soul, instead of turning it into a spell.

Dude from 1-1 is definitely dead.

I should probably start over.

(cleared 1-1, 1-2, 2-1, 3-1, started 4-1 and 5-1)
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

It does seem pretty easy to grind for souls in 4-1 if you're any good at parrying.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

also, I've been mainly dumping points into Endurance and Magic, with just enough strength to use a winged spear in one hand, and a few into Vit so that I have just enough to avoid a lot of attacks being one hit kills.

I had a dramatic moment last night where I was sure I was dead because I had zero visible health; luckily I noticed I wasn't dead the last second and rolled away and survived.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

Holy crap, 3-2 is so great!

Terrifying even though I've never been in any real danger yet; haven't died once, have barely had to heal.

I think I just met the Lautrec of this game. Similar swords and voice. I let him out anyway.

Going to go back and challenge the boss, now that I've dealt with the chains.

edit: ok, I got cavalier and died. I totally deserved it, too.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

I am not seeing any hints/messages or phantoms or summon tonight. dunno what's up. Maybe I'm not online? checking to see if the PSN store works... well, I can download trailers, so...

(have now also cleared 3-2, 2-3, and all but the boss of 1-3, am level 51... I haven't worn anything but very light armor yet, I'm wondering if I should for Penetrator, as I can't have enough MP to just range kill him.)
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

Quiting, watching a trailer and coming back to the game, there are phantoms and notes where there weren't any earlier. Weird.

Oh, and it may just have been playing DkS first, but DeS is mostly way easier so far.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

oh crap.

spoilers: Yurt killed both of the mage merchants. I can't change what I have memorized. I upgraded my intelligence so I could remember three spells immediately before discovering they were gone. If there isn't a way to revive them, my spells & spears character is basically fucked, no? So that can't be the case, right? Using serious will power to not run to a wiki right now, ha.

other thoughts:

Cleared 1-3 & 3-3. My spear "broke" when I was 3/4th of the way through the 3-3 fight, and I was able to finish it with spells but I had to laugh at myself for such a beginner mistake as to even go into a boss fight without a (close to) fully repaired weapon...

Backstabs are weird, any tips on exactly what triggers them? Can't figure it out; they seem to happen more often when I'm slightly off to the sides and the target isn't idle, unless they aren't aware of me yet.

Running around human a lot but have never been invaded. Also can't figure out where to drop my summon signs, seems like it's a lot less easy to drop a summon than in DkS.

I think DeS is better at giving a "wow, this area is huge" feeling than DkS is, even though once the stage is mastered they all feel fairly small.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

seriously, it's irreversible?

so, wiki says it is. That's super fucked / I'm an idiot for not paying more attention in the nexus.

guess I'll start over? ugh.

(I only didn't kill him because killing lautrec early robs you of great armor and a great side battle in DkS), such that I regretted killing him early in my NG and I assumed it would be similar here.... whoops!)

ah well, it's only 15 hours wasted...
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

ha, yeah, i'm going to plow ahead. as long as there's another magic shop eventually, it's all good.

I like the way DkS handles this situation much better; both guys get introduced with hints in front of them saying "liar" from other players, they are both fairly obviously going to be trouble (Yurt much more than Lautrec) but in DkS there's actually a reason to let him live. Now in every play through I'm going to free and kill Yurt straight away, like something to be checked off on a to-do list. It ends up having so much more texture/depth in DkS, where I let him kill the fire keeper every time now.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

It's not Lautrec's armor that's worth having.

I have soul arrow, soul ray, flame toss, fireball, enchant weapon, and all of the 500 soul spells from Freke.

(Ironically, I didn't notice what was happening in the Nexus because I was blazing through stages too easily last night... nice of the game to increase the difficulty in response, I guess!)
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

yeah, Soul Ray's splash damage is hella important for mobs.

(for example the trio of lancers in 1-3, which of course you can also just run past to get to the boss.)
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

Holy shit this game is so good. No news there.

Tonight I revisited 2-1 and 2-2 looking for sharpstones. I found the crystal lizard nest! That was delightful to find on my own.

I also revisited 1-3 and thanks to the billion "try disguise" messages I found the witch. at first I tried the gloom armor, but that's not the disguise that makes sense, is it...

went back to the old monk archstone and couldn't figure out where to go from there that wasn't back tracking.

So, I cleared 4-1 (with the help of a summon) and then cleared 4-2 on my first try, pretty much terrified the whole time. I assume being human and thus able to wear the thief ring and fragrant ring at the same time was massively helpful; the manta rays never attacked me. Also, fireball is a lovely spell.

I figured out that the ghost monsters were respawning, and that they were probably just like the skeletons in the catacombs. I was right. I found this scenario much more effective than the DkS version.

I found the makoto and returned it. Heh.

I am running around at level 62, with V:25, E:25, I:18, M:30, and enough strength to hold my heater shield +5 and moon winged spear+1.

Starting The Valley of Defilement now.

(ps, finding this game to be way easier than DkS, but I think that's just a matter of having 150+ hours of D.Souls under my belt. Looking forward to NG+!)
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

Finally got invaded, right at the start of 5-1. Got killed pretty quickly. Picked up my soul, used an eye, got invaded again by the same person and found a good hiding place and watched them run around for a bit. Then I went exploring, found a good spot and they found me. Fireballed them as they approached, spear stabbed a few times, somehow managed to take zero damage from a backstab, fire balled them again, circled them for a bit, and a third fireball and they were dead.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

My world tendency in 4 is somewhat towards black, whereas everywhere else it's towards white.
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[apfEID]

(I could not have found Yuria without the messages from other people. helped that I only had 4 helms with me and one of them was the correct one. someone should make a "faq" that's just a list of messages marked on a map for post-online gameplay...)

(5-2 is AMAZING!)
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[apfEID]

[apfEID]

I am waiting around at the 5-3 boss fight hoping to be summoned, no luck. I am level 69, is that over/under leveled for this area?

never mind, I went in there, poked at the knight with a my magic spear, saw a hint suggesting fire, changed to my scimitar+2 and applied black turpentine and crushed it, rolling in and out to fuck his shit up anytime there was an opening.

now all that is left is 1-4 and whatever lies beyond.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

Whoa! I just read the first half of this topic and realized that I took the short cut version of 2-2!

When I first got there, I said "f that" about the explosive fire elementals and went the other way, and with soul ray killed all the pick axers.

I did revisit 2-2 recently and went the other way but only a little bit and simply did not realize that that was the way you're supposed to go first.

Wow!
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

I just got to old king Allant and got my ass kicked super hard. I managed to dodge his huge AoE attack twice and then interrupt it by attacking, and I was able to roll around to avoid most of his attacks but was slightly too slow to roll and got soul level drained and killed by the same hit. 50,000 souls down the drain (level+what I had on me.) My main weapon only does 66 points of damage. I feel like I've not done enough weapon shard grinding or something, as he has an absurd life bar.

I have basically cruised through this game up til now (i'm only 25 hours in) but The True Demon's Souls Starts Here, I guess? I don't want to mindlessly farm souls and stones and then find out that a moon winged spear+5 isn't going to cut it and I should have been looking elsewhere, so... advice? The weapon upgrades in this game are oblique to say the least.

SL 72
V:26 I:18 E:34 S:13 D:12 M:30 F:12 L:7

spells & spears themed character.
I have soul arrow, soul ray, fireball (does 200 damage to Allant, still pathetic) and flame toss, and some of the cheap early game spells.

Also, I backstabbed BP Ostrava and accidentally kicked him off the bridge because of it, did I lose anything cool? (I got the key earlier.)
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

that soul drain attack feels the cheapest shit ever; he seems to only do it after two or three blocked attacks so I can't roll out of the way. I see it being telegraphed from a mile away, except I'm really close and there's nothing I can do. At least I'm doing decent damage to him now, but losing ~32,000 souls every time I try is really shitty.

Gonna have to be more conservative on my attacks, I guess.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

Well, it turns out you can cancel the AoE with a fireball but you can't cancel the leap sword attack.

On the upside, Demon's Souls finally got me to yell "FUCK OFF"

also, my favorite thing happened:

summon someone.
get invaded while the summoning is trying to go through
summon arrives just in time, invader backs off and gets crushed.
hilarious and invigorating.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

ok, that was the best fight in the game thus far. I beat him on my fourth try, but I'm absolutely shaking.

After half his life is down, it seems that half the time, he'll recover from you canceling the AoE much faster and start attacking.

With his move set, he's almost a Street Fighter character.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

so, I'm in the giant tree and the maiden in black is lulling the old one to sleep

this is the end of the game isn't it?

I either leave the room or kill her?

or am I mapping Dark Souls onto this too closely?
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

Kinda feeling disappointed with my Demon's Souls experience, probably because I felt rushed to beat it before the servers go offline; I am super busy this month playing a show, tons of concerts, two multi-day festivals, and on top of that finding a place to move to June 1st. I haven't played with world tendency at all and haven't seen a primordial demon; I didn't even kill all of the BP NPCs.

I loved 3-2, 4-2, 5-2, 1-3, 1-4. I think I would have loved 2-2 as well if I hadn't unintentionally taken the shortcut to the boss my first time through

I think Dark Souls' story & NPCs were infinitely better; at the very least in DkS there were no NPC's who grated on me, whereas the Maiden in Black and Yuria were super annoying one-dimensional fan service-y "please let me help you!" characters, the likes of which are absent in DkS; the firelink fire keeper feels actually tragic in DkS (and importantly isn't there to serve YOU alone) and Gwynevere, perhaps in disregard for authorial intent, read to me as a fertility goddess rather than a sexed up video game cliche.

All that said, I still see myself sinking another 100 hours into it once I get a PS3 of my own after I move.

Are any of the trophies online dependent?
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

I saw the fire elementals, said "f that", went the other way, soul ray'ed the mob of pick axe guys, and then looked down very very carefully before each jump. It was hard enough it didn't seem like a shortcut.

I'd cleared out 90% of the rest of the game before I even checked out the other tunnel.

I don't mean Yuria is sexually fan service-y, just "oh, I'm not worthy to help you, I can help you if you really want, but really... really?" is a kind of gross.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

I may have just hated her accent / affected speech enough to color everything about her character.

also: I had noticed early on (in 1-1 even) that the fall distance with small damage was much larger than in dark souls, so I was fairly bold at jumping off ledges.
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

Flamelurker was easy-ish for me, because I had a shield that significantly blocked fire damage, (and I was mostly using Soul Arrow from a distance, I think.)
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Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
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[apfEID]

I am playing through DeS again, this time with a strength build and using the Meatcleaver and a quality spear. I have largely not used armor at all, I put on some black leather armor for looks alone.

I am finding the difficulty a little weird to self-calibrate. There's lots of stuff that seems just flat out easy now that I know to draw enemies out one by one, and clobbering them with the meat cleaver with 30 strength makes quick work of almost everything. I switched to a dragon long sword and even the Maneaters died on my first try. I feel over leveled everywhere, but I haven't particularly level grinded much after I got to the Meatcleaver's stats.

Dark Soul's estus system is so much better than the grass one; as long as I can avoid dying in one hit, I usually can fully heal just by backing away, and again, I haven't done much farming except when I've run out.

I am only 15 hours in and I only have 1-4, 5-2 and 5-3 left. I was trying to go without using bows at all but the lack of good tracking when trying to kill mosquitos means I'll probably have to cave and use a crossbow on them.

I suppose there's only so much challenge on a NG, when I'm not gaming the tendency system, after 400+ hours of Dark Souls and having cleared Demon's Souls before in 40 hours.

I do plan on starting a new character specifically to play offline and do all of the world tendency events, I assume that will kick my ass.

Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying playing through again, but I am befuddled by how best to game the difficulty curve to keep it fully engaging.

so, is there a good page of DeS build suggestions out there?
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[apfEID]

Ok, so what's the secret to making the Old King Doran fight not a frustrating nightmare? I've spent two hours fighting him and I can get in as many as 12 hits with a sticky white stuff'ed meat cleaver before he one shots me. I have 39 VIT. My character is too stupid to learn spells. Do I just arrow him to death?

I've ended up trying this strategy:

1. when he approaches slowly, play baseball with him (one handed r1 throws him across the room)
2. when he charges me, slam him to the ground once (one handed r2 smashes him) and/or run away, then back stab. Sometimes he'll roll under my attack, which is why the downward slam is necessary.
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[apfEID]

Yeah, I'm running away past that room. The fight takes forever and if he catches me with my shield down or mid-swing, the damage is usually a one hit kill, I am having trouble getting a consistent enough pattern from him to be able to not make a single mistake for the roughly 5 minutes it'll take to kill him. I might try supplementing what I'm doing with poison, or try other weapons, but the knockdown/back is really attractive when even through my shield he's doing a ton of damage; is there a shield that can block him 100% or even 80%?
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[apfEID]

I can't cast second chance, character doesn't have enough MP and at this point I'd have to grind for hours or dupe glitch to level up.

I am starting to think this fight is just not going to happen for me with this character. At least not today. It's verging on boring because it's so hard the only reliable way to win is to trick the AI into leaving itself open for a back stab... 15 times with a buffed meat cleaver. (and magic-buffing the cleaver almost doubles the damage it does, so it is worth doing.)

I guess next I'll try a 30% cat ring, etc attempt.
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[apfEID]

Yeah, I almost had that kind of rhythm going with the cleaver, backed into a corner. Would have taken a long time, and I wasn't quite able to get enough stamina reliably to pin him in the case where he pops up fast and swings.

There was one groove I got into where I found out he has hyper armor while in some frames of standing back up. Sucks, because it was a great, natural feeling combo. Smash him across the room with R1, then running R1 slam down on him as he stands back up. If you time it naturally, he's in invincible frames when you reach him. If you wait a few frames, you can hit him, but it's a lot more dicey as he sometimes swings hard as he stands up.
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[apfEID]

80? Vit/str/end all in the 30-39 range, faith at 24, a little bit of dex.
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[apfEID]

I finally got him. I just needed to figure out the precise rhythm of the back stab baiting, and with a buffed meat cleaver, I was doing 182 damage per backstab.

I also messed around with the Dark Silver Shield and an illicitly duped colorless demon soul, and at +5, it blocked Doran 100%. I quickly realized that only really means you can poke him to death with a spear, with 130-260 pokes. I'm happy that once I beat him, I had gotten into a rhythm where I could have done it entirely shieldless, as he never took a swing at me again once I got into the groove.

Thanks y'all.
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[apfEID]

Demon's Souls is on sale on PSN right now. Or was yesterday.

also, this:

Around the 1:39 mark, Shuhei Yoshida talks about Demon's Souls and Dark Souls and mentions they lead to the Share button on the PS4:

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2013/11/21/shuhei-yoshida-names-his-top-10-games-of-the-generation-1-made-him-cry/
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[apfEID]

That's sorta what I'm saying?

Once you have played enough blind (which, other than how the generic upgrade paths worked, I did on my first run through to the point that Yurt killed half of the people in the nexus before I noticed.) that you are fine with wiki-ing, the difficulty curve in NG is very odd. The only stuff that was giving me problems were:

1. Old King Doran
2. King Allant
3. the dual katana skeleton behind the hidden door in 4-2.

I also think the Meat cleaver is really easy to stumble across, since it's the only upgrade path for the Club and you don't have to buy a club, you find at least one pretty early on.

I also made a bunch of other weapons or found them without wiki-ing (I was pretty stoked to find the Moonlight Sword on this play through, which I don't remember finding before) and tried them out, and I was disappointed to find the Moonlight Sword is as slow as the meat cleaver but doesn't hit hard enough to make it worth it. I also wish that it passed through walls/ceilings as well as shields, that'd be enough to make it worthwhile.
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[apfEID]

I started a new character purely intended to mess around offline with world tendencies and character tendencies and polish off some of the trophies.

Of course, more than a dozen hours in, Ostrava mysteriously dies somehow and doesn't show up in 1-4 in body form. Luckily, Mephistopheles told me to go kill the next person instead, but now I have to deal with Doran in NG+ to get the last remaining ring and two required weapons. (Serves me right in a sense.)

The world and character tendency stuff is fun, but seemingly at odds with the multiplayer part of the game; since the net affects your world tendency, it's very hard/frustrating do both at the same time, which feels like a mistake to me. Maybe I don't quite understand it all yet.

I loved the extra area in 5-1.
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