[Felix]

So I'm finally playing this and it's as fantastic as everyone has said. So far I've cleared 1-1, 2-1, and 4-1. I really really liked 4-1 but fuck those flying manta rays, they beat the shit out of you when you have to fight those three guys on the cliff and meanwhile your autotarget is spazzing out trying to lock on to them while you run in circles, particularly since it takes exactly two tries to beat the boss of that level and there's not much of a shortcut to challenge him again after dying (once where you die immediately trying to figure out what the hell is going on in that tiny dark space, and then the second timewhen you've learned his very simple patterns and win without taking a hit).

I feel like I've finally got my shit together now that I have the crescent falchion (which is, happily, such a bitch to upgrade that I'm glad I still have reason to keep working on the falchion I started the game with and put a bunch of resources into), a shield that blocks 100% of physical damage, the longbow and the spell that would be called magic missile if it weren't copyrighted. The game is so darned interesting that I can't help but try to level up melee and bows and magic simultaneously, which may spread me too thin but who cares.

[Felix]

Read through this thread. For all the people complaining about 2-2, I have to say that I found it pretty enjoyable. 4-2, though, is rotten. Not a single enjoyable thing about this level.

[Felix]

I eventually got through after probably 20 very rapid deaths by just jumping down and running right through the first crypt (after, y'know, actually working out how to kill the reaper and then exploring the area and opening the gate and saving Savos Aren and generally enjoying myself on my first time through), fighting the skeletons (would be fun if it wasn't the 20th time), running past the two laser guys in the next crypt (which I could do without taking damage about 4/5 of the time) and pushing the second reaper off the ledge, then just running straight past the third reaper after killing the one (non-laser) ghoul blocking the hallway. I cheesed the hell out of the boss because I didn't want to deal with any of that ever again.

So far World 4 has been all about pointing out the game's flaws -- the screwy autotargeting in 4-1, and now the relative inadequacy of the roll as a DMC-esque timed invincibility move in 4-2. The different is that 4-1 was an awesome level and 4-2 was hopefully the worst experience I'll have with the game.

[Felix]

Glad to hear it's actually that bad relative to the rest. I don't think I'll want to farm souls, but we'll see. From looking at the wiki (which I'm only doing for levels I've already cleared!) it looks like I'll have to go back if I want the Makoto, but I think I'll have to wait for the server to give me Pure White to do that since I've died too many times in body form -- and that's far from the most unpleasant part of the level, anyway. Seems like I'm pretty lucky for the servers to still be up, for that matter!

So far I've done 1-1, 2-1, 2-2, 4-1, 4-2, and half of 3-1.

4-1 was probably my favourite, despite the manta rays; the skeletons are a lot of fun and the whole thing feels like a Mario 64 level (defined as: an interesting and varied 3D space that is best considered from a mental bird's-eye view). 1-1 was also wonderful and thematic and a great lead-in; I've only heard Broco complain about it, but he's taken care to explain his criticisms of this game. 2-1 and 2-2 were pretty nice for atmosphere alone, even though the mobs weren't very interesting at all. 3-1 I'm kind of lukewarm on -- I don't particularly love lock-and-key hallways or Lovecraft, though it's pretty expertly done. Nevertheless, I feel like doing a bit more of World 3 before I go back to the Boletarian Palace, and I'm holding off on World 5 because I don't particularly love fumbling through dark caverns unless they're especially well done, and so far the most claustrophobic levels have been a mixed bag.

It's extremely unlikely I won't have powered through the rest of the game by next weekend.

[Felix]

I think my main problem with 4-2, as another poster mentioned, is that it's much more of a breakneck gauntlet than any other level (so far), and it's difficult and frustrating to adjust to playing the game that way. The two cleaver skeletons also really kill the pacing when it's your twentieth time through.

I finished 3-1, which was aesthetically perfect but not really my cup of tea, putting it on par with (the interesting and not that tedious) 2-2 otherwise. Then I whipped through 1-2 and 2-3 -- didn't expect them both to be boss hallways and SotC homages, as I hadn't encountered any others so far, but they were both fun. Dragon God reminded me of the Satan Pit from Dr. Who, and made me really happy to have Second Chance and all of the spice from 3-1. Nice Megamanny boss-order-logic there. Lordy, this game is great.

Can't decide whether to do 1-3 or 3-2 next.

[Felix]

Okay, thanks. I'd been putting off World 5 because I briefly tried Stage 1 and found it sort of boring, and others don't have nice things to say about Stage 2.

I've been spending too much time looking at the wiki, and now I kind of want to go back to 1-1 so I can get the PFS and upgrade it to Dark (even though I've already pumped a couple Colourless souls into the Adjudicator), and spend my next big soul haul on tons of hardstone so I can make a Lava Bow. Is there any reason not to use Holy Arrows? I had a bunch from the first archer in 4-1, and I've since used them up, but the magic-type damage seemed much better for penetrating enemy defenses than any other arrow type I've used.

Apparently I need to start pumping Magic higher than 10 if I want to use the Talisman of Beasts (and I do, just to get around having to open the UI in order to cast Second Chance -- I can't be the only person who walks around with Shield/Wand in his left hand and Sword/Bow in the right). I guess I could use a stronger Soul Ray anyway. I tell you, though, it's gonna take a lot for me to be persuaded to use any weapon other than the Crescent Falchion -- I've got it up to +3 now and I'm terrified of ever not having the mana regen.

Also, can I get both the Sword and the Armor from Allant, if and when I see Ostrava again? The wiki is somewhat ambiguous as to whether you have to choose.

[Felix]

Darkmoon seemed like a negligible damage increase for the lack of MP regen (and, y'know, already having a crescent weapon I like doesn't hurt, particularly when I'll already be pumping magic for the next little while).

Silver Shield nerfs magic somehow, right? and Brushwood is super heavy and doesn't offer much over PFS? I'm kind of bummed these are all Large shields; I liked being able to parry until I got my Adjudicator.

[Felix]

but my soul ray

[Felix]

but my soul ray

I can't believe the localization team held off on any "boletariat" jokes

[Felix]

Fuck Maneater! That was a pretty good fight (though not as good as Flamelurker), but those guys had too much health (unlike Flamelurker). Made it far more aggravating than it needed to be; took like ninety minutes (unlike the three attempts and maybe fifteen minutes I spent on Flamelurker). And that mindflayer on the stairs on the way up was a total cunt.

Shieldwise, I think I'm just gonna use the Dark Heater from 2-2. It, like the Crescent Falchion, is 90% of what I want for about 30% of the work, and it has 100/70/70 defense (when maxed out) plus lets me parry.

[Felix]

man, I don't even play a game where there's any prospect of me twinking out more than once a year or so. This one happens to play really well to boot, so I'm indulging myself by looking up equipment stats and calling it the best of both worlds.

you're right though that having even the one projectile makes things way easier (though the casting delay is close to perfect for preserving danger). I certainly end up meleeing enough that I don't particularly feel like I'm missing out.

[Felix]

Sorry guys I too much enjoy having a well-rounded character with a shield and some magic slots that aren't all consigned to one triple-width spell to use the DBS or the Cleaver!

I would like to actually get the DBS, mind, but since I was playing this game straight (THANK YOU VERY MUCH CUBA) I screwed up my world tendency way too much to get pure white without waiting for a server event. I'm sure I'll get my chance before they decommission the online!

[Felix]

oh man now I have a Talisman of Beasts the UI is so much less inconvenient

also, a Lava Bow

I still don't actually understand how the online works (I had a ghost come to "help" in 1-2, but all he did was try to kill the dragon until he died), but is it possible to trade in this game? I could really use several chunks of cloudstone (and a bunch of darkmoon everything if I'm ever going to get my Crescent Falchion from +4 to +5, while I'm on the subject) and I have no interest in farming it.

I also switched from using the Thief's Ring to just casting Cloak every now and then when I want to pull one guy away from a mob, primarily because I wanted to wear the Regenerator's ring after swapping the Adjudicator for the Dark Heater (which, by the way, your three cloudstone chunks could make into a +5!). I'm liking it a little better -- now with just 1-3, 1-4, and all of World 5 to go, it becomes obvious that I've been playing with the aggro turned way down. Also, I don't know what the heck I was going to do with that other spell slot if not use Cloak.

My tastes in equipment bonuses seem to have had the net effect of making my near-final gear seem (at least aesthetically) really modest. Tiny little shield, same base weapon as I began the game with, hot-stuff bow that's never actually drawn, coronet on my head, Yurt's barely-perceptible footsie pajamas and greaves, and ... well, the jury's still out on my torso. I don't have the stamina to wear anything particularly heavy alongside all the other stuff, so I'm just using Black Leather for the resistance, but hopefully I'll get to fight Doran at some point. In the meantime, I actually still feel like a Wanderer! Here's to being faithful to your starting class.

Okay okay need to get back to work but then World five and I are gonna have fun.

[Felix]

Mephistopheles is asking me to kill people! Important people who render me helpful services! Services I could probably do without for the remainder of the game because let's faith it I don't want to unequip Second Chance or level my Faith high enough to use a third spellslot but I don't know how I feel about this! I don't think I want to go through with it! I don't know what the rewards are! My character is as black as the darkest night after I killed the filthy man in a hurry to get the caverns black enough to fight Scirvir! What have I done?

[Felix]

Guys, 5-2 wasn't bad at all. Adjudicator's Shield +3 & Regen Ring & partial Gloom Armor = no health lost from poison. If anything, World 5 seems like it's not quite as fully fleshed out as the other four, but it wasn't nearly as frustrating as 4-2 or Maneater.

Also, Ostrava's brother was hilarious during the Penetrator fight. He really cleaned up.

Only 5-3 and 1-4 to go! Looks like this game is gonna be over before I know it. And here I thought I was lapsing into endgame preparation mode too quickly when I went and got the talisman and the bow earlier today.

It seems like it makes the most narrative sense for me to do 5-3 before 1-4 ... but I want to have a go at Doran, and I've been led to believe that my time in the world is short after I've finished my last archstone.

[Felix]

[Felix]

man, timing the run past the dragon in 1-4 was harder than it needed to be. that whole level was a bit frustrating in terms of how many times I needed to play it and how easy it eventually became -- I went from Allant kicking my ass to me kicking his ass over the course of two encounters, and I'd really have preferred to be able to open the gate by those last two.

teleporting out of the endgame to go forge the Northern Regalia was pretty lame and goofy. my fault. hooray for Demon's Souls! one day -- not now -- I'll try NG+.

[Felix]

Garl was fun, though I just dodged and backstabbed the shit out of him. I was too much in the endgame mindset and the fight seemed to go extremely poorly when I tried any more complicated strategies. Can you even parry that giant mace?

That said, I've had cheesier fights. The other world 5 bosses were all exceptionally easy (as were, for that matter, the world 1 bosses up until Allant); as long as you keep up your offense, you're fine.

As for the giant guys in 5-2, while it's extremely frustrating to be killed by them (usually because you can tell fifteen seconds in advance that you've made a bad move and you're SOL), they're not difficult at all when you engage them one at a time on dry land. You can do this with most of them, if you're aggressive.

I agree that Flamelurker is probably the most dynamic and interesting when you take everything into account. Among the ±4 bosses in the running, his fight is the shortest and least predictable, which puts him out in front.

I think I died the same number of times to Adjudicator and to Flamelurker -- one -- but that was because I got lucky with Flamelurker and everything clicked for me pretty early on, whereas Adjudicator is pretty much one inevitable death and then one very easy follow-up once you've got your bearings.

I'd be more inclined to say that "the sheer length of the fight leaves room for screwing up" about Maneater than about Allant. Allant is actually quite easy once you've got his patterns down, and it's not all that likely you'd make a mistake (though until you realize that you can interrupt his God's-Wrath-type attack, the fight is a huge pain in the ass).

Maneater never gets to be quite that straightforward, and it's honestly just really hard to figure out how to handle the two of them without constantly trying to put distance between you. I could certainly see magic users having an easier time of it. As with 4-2, I don't completely hate it in hindsight, but I'd also be happier if I'd spent about half an hour to an hour less of my time on dying repeatedly.

[Felix]

I wish I'd thought to use the Meat Cleaver on Maneater; I definitely had it by then and blocking is pretty much useless in that fight anyway.

Did anybody else keep wanting the Maiden in Black to sound like Chekov from TOS? "Soul of the North, withdrawn from its wessel..."

[Felix]

Yeah, I have no idea how you'd beat Storm King if not by learning the timing and then positioning yourself someplace where you can't be hit by the barbs. It's hard enough to clear out a 100% safe spot (and the fight is so slow besides) that it doesn't actually feel like cheesing.

[Felix]

Allant only takes stamina and even then not that much. He's the closest the game ever comes to "once you figure out the trick, it's really easy," because "the trick" is admittedly "his entire moveset," but he really is just that learnable.

[Felix]

the crescent falchion is just a gift whether or not you're a mage; my wanderer used it for 80% of the game, switching out only intermittently for the meat cleaver.

[Felix]

I can do it! ... tomorrow night. lv 71.

[Felix]

I'm also on the west coast, but I'm in Seattle for a conference today and the train's not going to get me back until 11 ...

[Felix]

Friday is great. My PSN is selfignition. I'll look forward to it!

[Felix]

Wait, I forgot that that character is on NG+. I don't think I can get to 1-4 anymore? :-(

[Felix]

[Felix]

I'm agreed with Dinghy re: preferring DeS if it has DaS' health system, and preferring Flamelurker to any boss encounter in Dark Souls. Dark Souls has a lot of shitty bosses (i.e. everything after O&S), and of those that remain, about half boil down to "get inside of the enemy's weapon range and stab them in the belly/back while making liberal use of invincibility frames."

I guess Allant and Queelag would qualify as nice, middle-of-the-road, "Megaman bosses"?

Maneater and O&S took me a roughly equal amount of time on my first playthrough (2 hours), though the Meat Cleaver or DBS do make the former a hell of a lot easier. Demon's Souls does give you way too much grass (basically just in 1-3), though I do think that the elements of crowd control introduced by Dark Souls are mostly boring.

Although this isn't about challenge, Demon's also has slightly better level design than Dark. The good areas of Dark are the Darkroot Garden, Blighttown, Sen's, Anor Londo, New Londo, plus arguably the Archives or the Parish. Compare to Demon's, which is universally great with the exception of 5-2 and either 1-2 or 4-2 depending on your perspective.

I will say that I don't think Dark Souls is dramatically tougher than Demon's Souls. In my book they're about the same.

[Felix]

I'm pretty sure Mauve has a point here, or else I wouldn't have been so stubborn about only using Curved Swords for 80% of both games (Meat Cleaver and Lightning-anything-that-outdamages-Queelag's notwithstanding)

[Felix]

Yeah, I'd imagine that the Dark Souls codebase already being on 360 significantly ups the ease of porting. It's pretty unlikely that it'll be an especially nice port -- look at Silent Hill 2 PC and DMC3 PC to get an idea of what we're dealing with -- but it should run at whatever resolution you like and with a better framerate than on a $250 piece of consumer electronics that you'd otherwise be required to purchase. I doubt we'll see Demon's on PC.

[Felix]

Yeah, it's actually really hard to get a few weapons past the +3 or +4 hump (namely, Crescent and Dark, to my memory).

I don't know why you'd make a moon weapon though! Crescent is pretty much always better, UNLESS you feel like you really need to be doing magic damage but you have no Int. In which case you should really just be using a weapon that takes Dragon/Blessed buffs (both of which are significantly easier to get to +5) or the Meat Cleaver.

[Felix]

Yeah, my whole thing was that if you're going to use a weapon that doesn't take Blessed/Dragon/Curse, you should probably be an Int character, because a VIT/END-based build with a Moon weapon isn't really going to excel at anything. Sorry if I said it in a roundabout way.

[Felix]

[Felix]

yeah, I think I've made this exact post before, but the crescent falchion is such a gift. I thought I was just going to make a sword/shield char who had a ranged spell, but after getting that thing I just hoarded darkmoonstone and pumped int.

[Felix]

The timing on the dragon fire is way more fiddly than it needs to be, and once you've gotten killed by it enough times, running up the stairs in that building is just exasperating. It does (almost) ruin the entire level, but so many other parts of it (the three black knights in the courtyard at the beginning, the rune shield guy on the last bridge, and the awesome Megaman boss that is Allant) are pretty tops.

[Felix]

if you wanted to wait for me to beat 1-1 and 3-1 in NG+, I'd be there. I owe those shmucks.

[Felix]

71, iirc.

[Felix]

You mean the red spear guy in 1-1? I lost to him around 20 times on my first time through the level (because I'm stubborn), and went back when I was a little more confident in being able to dodge his attacks and could kill him in four hits. I wouldn't worry about him for a good long time.

[Felix]

cryface, it sounds like you're referring to 4-1, which is my favourite area in the game. you'll get the hang of it.

you can also just kill the manatees with a bow, though I seldom bothered.

[Felix]

[Felix]

Yeah, World 1 is sort of the "main" area of the game narratively, and only it has that rule about not being able to progress past 1-2 until you've cleared at least one other world. I'd personally suggest saving the end of World 1 for last, as it has the most final-feeling boss.

Worlds 2-1 and 4-1 are pretty big, challenging, and creative, like 1-1. 2-2 and 4-2 are some of the most hated levels in the game depending on who you ask. 3-1 and 5-1 are a bit more claustrophobic, but 3-1 in particular has impeccable atmosphere; however, 3-2 has the hardest boss in the game (arguably less true if you're a mage), and 5-2 is almost certainly the most hated level in the game (arguably less true if you use a map).