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Demon's Souls
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:14 pm        Reply with quote

You just use the brazier. It blocks everything. Maneater is definitely hard but like it's not that hard. I always thought Flamelurker was harder, because he's less predictable and there's nowhere to hide.

I feel pretty good saying this: the bosses in Demon's are harder. The levels in Dark are harder.

EDIT: amendment: some bosses in Demon's are marginally harder, but almost all the levels in Dark are significantly harder. Therefore Dark is overall much harder.
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TXTSWORD



Joined: 25 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:18 pm        Reply with quote

I always always found flamelurker to be extremely difficult. A lot of people say he's easy I think? But I have no idea how they think that. I just never figured him out, I guess. I mostly found myself running in terror as he tries to rush me down.
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mauve



Joined: 07 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:31 pm        Reply with quote

Flamelurker is easy peasy, just don't use lock-on. You can actually roll and run forward around most of his attacks easily. Hell, using a shield just makes it more difficult.
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scratchmonkey
Final Finasty


Joined: 21 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:48 pm        Reply with quote

The only time I've died against Flamelurker is when I've gotten stuck on a piece of his area, usually the dragon skeleton in the corner. I've probably done that fight more than anything else in the game because right outside his room was the easiest place to get summoned as a phantom and once you get used to the rhythm of avoiding his attacks, he's not that bad.
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Youpi



Joined: 01 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:04 am        Reply with quote

The only time I've died against Flamelurker is when I tried to improve my no-deaths run :/

Fuck you flamelurker
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nuttyevans



Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Location: Belfast.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:07 pm        Reply with quote

Finally got round to starting this up last night. Seems the servers are still up! My Dark Souls experience got me up until the Tower Knight before my ass was kicked. Very happy to have another Souls game to play over Christmas.
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diplo



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Location: Brandy Brendo's bungalow

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:41 pm        Reply with quote

Do you mean the iron golem?
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Felix
unofficial repository


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: vancouver

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:46 pm        Reply with quote

Demon's, dude.
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all monsters



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: 199X

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:15 am        Reply with quote

just started this again, had a thrilling fight with the second uchi-skeleton in 4-1. my crescent falchion broke mid fight and I had no backup equiped, so had to go through the menu to grab a spear while dodging his attacks. I got him!

also found a sweet leather cap
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nuttyevans



Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Location: Belfast.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:09 pm        Reply with quote

diplo wrote:
Do you mean the iron golem?


If only. Iron Golem was one of the few bosses in dark Souls that posed no problems whatsoever. Mainly due to him falling flat on his ass and the beating that ensued.
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diplo



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Location: Brandy Brendo's bungalow

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:23 pm        Reply with quote

I just understood your original sentence.
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internisus
shafer sephiroth


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:27 pm        Reply with quote

I only ever played about 1/3 of this game, so yesterday I started up a new character (The Dark Souls II announcement gave me the fever). I've read a lot on the Wiki so I now have an understanding of the stats I want to focus on, the weapon upgrade system, and what resources are precious and not to be wasted. I made a list of equipment that I'm interested in trying for this character, but I didn't memorize where to find all of it or anything like that; I'm not out to ruin my first full play-through that completely. So I'll have fun blowing through plenty of ore on weapons I don't want to be using eventually; it really held me back last time that I didn't upgrade anything because I figured I'd rather spend those resources on better weapons I find later. Now I understand that most ore can be farmed or bought for a relative pittance down the line.

Unlike the last time I played, I'm currently using a falchion and not a spear, which makes me feel good because the spear's range seemed a little cheap to me before. I beat both the Tower Knight and the Armored Spider melee only, whereas I had resorted to my bow last time. I feel good about my skills, and I'm looking forward to going toe-to-toe with Flamelurker again.

This character is a female wanderer, a dexterity build with some magic. I have little interest in planning expressly for PvP; that's not what I'm playing this game for, but at the same time I don't want to waste points. About what I want to look like at soul level 200, depending upon how much interest I develop in spells and miracles and whether I decide to pump luck up to 20 or maybe even 30:

40 Vitality
18 Intelligence
40 Endurance
22 Strength
99 Dexterity
38 Magic
10 Faith
13 Luck

And then after a few playthroughs, when I've accomplished what I want to accomplish, I would also like to try a slow, heavy-hitting strength and miracle character to experience the opposite play style and all the equipment this character won't be using.

Online is as active as ever. Some asswipe invaded my under-20 character as I was just trying to move through 2-1 and ruined all my equipment with a scraping spear before I realized what it was. Still took him several minutes to manage to kill me even when I had no usable equipment. It was total twinkage, and it really pissed me off. Like, I was stewing for at least half an hour because of what the repairs cost me, because of the loss of my body and the undesired tendency effect, and because of the jackass shrug gesture the guy made as I died.

After I beat the Tower Knight, I discovered that the door on the left in 1-1 was open, which means I was at pure white tendency! I couldn't believe it. I went in and killed Miralda, so I've got her armor set, which is great. I missed the crystal lizard in that area, though. Next time I lose my body I'm going to go back in there and try to get the items that require tricky drops down that chasm.

After I play 2-2, 2-3, and 3-1 I'll be caught up to my last time playing and be in completely unfamiliar territory...
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:21 pm        Reply with quote

What're you gonna use with all that dex? Katanas? Remember that the pure bladestone (pretty sure that's the dex-scaling stone line) is the hardest to get in the whole game.

Pure white is amazingly easy to get in online mode. Since everyone that plays is pretty good at the game, the "resting" tendency is almost pure white to begin. Usually you can beat one boss and be at pure white in the world. Hang onto that Blinded Cross armor because it's literally the best in the game for female characters. You'll never have a mechanically justified reason for using anything else.

Scraping spear trolling is so played. 3-2 Stormruler trolling is the hotness.
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mauve



Joined: 07 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:34 pm        Reply with quote

Dex scaling falls off sharply after 40. Not really much point in going higher, whereas magic scales linearly forever.
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Iacus



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Stockholm

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:45 pm        Reply with quote

CubaLibre wrote:
Pure white is amazingly easy to get in online mode. Since everyone that plays is pretty good at the game, the "resting" tendency is almost pure white to begin. Usually you can beat one boss and be at pure white in the world. Hang onto that Blinded Cross armor because it's literally the best in the game for female characters. You'll never have a mechanically justified reason for using anything else.

Not at all my experience in namco's euro server.
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Felix
unofficial repository


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: vancouver

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:56 pm        Reply with quote

Iacus wrote:
CubaLibre wrote:
Pure white is amazingly easy to get in online mode. Since everyone that plays is pretty good at the game, the "resting" tendency is almost pure white to begin. Usually you can beat one boss and be at pure white in the world. Hang onto that Blinded Cross armor because it's literally the best in the game for female characters. You'll never have a mechanically justified reason for using anything else.

Not at all my experience in namco's euro server.


yeah, in my experience, you usually need to beat two bosses without dying in human form, which is an order of magnitude trickier, but if you know what you're doing it's very achievable.
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internisus
shafer sephiroth


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:38 pm        Reply with quote

CubaLibre wrote:
What're you gonna use with all that dex? Katanas? Remember that the pure bladestone (pretty sure that's the dex-scaling stone line) is the hardest to get in the whole game.


Yeah, I'm just gonna suck it up when it comes to pure bladestone. I've read about how bad that is; I can always put on an audio lecture or something. But it does mean that I am going to have to be careful about which weapon I choose to be my ultimate. Here's my list of weapons that caught my eye on the wiki:

White Bow
Sticky Compound Long Bow

Uchigatana
Kilij
War Scythe
Blind
Rune Sword
Kris Blade
Epee Rapier
Geri's Stiletto
Hiltless (pair with Regenerator's Ring)
Magic Sword "Makoto" (pair with Regenerator's Ring)
Insanity Catalyst

Knight's Shield +10 for physical defense
Dark Silver Shield +5 for magic defense
Rune Shield

I haven't tried anything that does magic damage yet, so a lot of that stuff is tentative curiosity. How I feel about magic will obviously impact my stat choices, too. I'm using the falchion I started with; I like it just fine, but it's nothing special. I expect that I'll turn into an uchigatana user in the end for this character.

When I discovered I was at pure white for world 1, I happened to go by the dragons' roost just because I was planning to see what I could get there using a ring of flame resistance during a low-risk return to the stage; of course, both dragons were totally gone, which I now know is due to the tendency. So I got everything, including the purple flame shield I've heard about so many times. Unfortunately, it's a large, bashing-type shield, and I'm just not interested in using those with this character. The Heater shield I bought back during 1-1 is at +4 right now, but a blue-eyed knight dropped a knight's shield on me, which seems to be slightly better for guard reduction (this is the only thing there is to look at to compare shields with 100% physical damage reduction that don't have special fire or magic properties, I guess), so I'm going to switch to that.

mauve wrote:
Dex scaling falls off sharply after 40. Not really much point in going higher, whereas magic scales linearly forever.


That is extremely interesting. I see what you're talking about now on the wiki; a little after 40, attack power is 81, and at 99 it's only 125. I'll be sure to pay closer attention to the benefits of any stat gains as I approach 40. This is actually really good news because it means I can achieve the power I want along with the magic I'm curious about without planning to get to a ridiculous soul level.
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Iacus



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Stockholm

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:05 pm        Reply with quote

Once you've played through the game normally and just want to experiment with character builds or whatever, remember there's an unpatched item dupe glitch in the game. Soul levels are not a problem.
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internisus
shafer sephiroth


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:06 pm        Reply with quote

How dare you impugn my honour, sir? I am no glitcher!
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Iacus



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Stockholm

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:26 pm        Reply with quote

Nor am I, but in the interest of using my finite time on this earth for interesting stuff rather than mindless grinding, I take the quick route sometimes.

Of course I reiterate that you should play the game normally at first, in any case.
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:37 pm        Reply with quote

guardian it sounds like you've already read too much about the game :(
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internisus
shafer sephiroth


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:52 pm        Reply with quote

Nah, I dunno where to find any of this stuff nor anything about levels I haven't seen yet, and I'm going to try any equipment I come across to see what feels good.
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diplo



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Location: Brandy Brendo's bungalow

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:25 pm        Reply with quote

CubaLibre wrote:
amendment: some bosses in Demon's are marginally harder, but almost all the levels in Dark are significantly harder. Therefore Dark is overall much harder.


For me, the real difficulty of the Souls games comes down to traps/surprises (made more or less irrelevant once known), inseparable multiple threats/multiple threats that are harder to separate, and bosses. Aside from the bosses -- most of Dark's are a joke --, I think it's inarguable that Demon's has more cases of the second element, which is what makes the substantial difference for me. Perhaps Dark is harder by default, if we're going by general player experiences, but two things make this hard for me to say for sure. One, it was what I played before Demon's; and, two, it's longer than Demon's, meaning that you'll die more on average just because of longevity. But it's precisely that bunch of time I spent with Dark and my struggling much more in Demon's NG+ than in Dark's which says something, too.

It'd be nice if Dark had a death counter for playthroughs somewhere. Demon's had it in its "pantheon."

ANYWAY. It seems to me that I haven't upgraded much in this game because of the burden on passively held equipment. For some reason that's been a barrier to my experimenting or at least seeing what's available, and maybe a reason why the method somehow feels more obfuscated than it is in Dark.

A few weeks ago when I was doing 3-1 with a friend I was invaded for the first time by a black phantom and found out that the invader kinda just slams into your world with little to no introductory pomp. Then flames were everywhere and :dead:. Anyway, it is weird how I still have seen maybe a total of 3 unique summon signs during my 60+ hours of playtime. Are few players below the SL50 range, or is there some difference between Demon's "community" and Dark's, more of an isolationist attitude?
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klj5j6li
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:38 pm        Reply with quote

diplo wrote:
Anyway, it is weird how I still have seen maybe a total of 3 unique summon signs during my 60+ hours of playtime. Are few players below the SL50 range, or is there some difference between Demon's "community" and Dark's, more of an isolationist attitude?


Less people are playing it because it's an older/slightly more obscure game.
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luckystrike



Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Location: drunk creepin

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:36 am        Reply with quote

Interstellar Dinghy wrote:
Less people are playing it because it's an older/slightly more obscure game.


I played through Demon's Souls for the first time right as the servers were supposed to be going offline, and yeah after putting about 50 hours into the game over 2 characters, I had one guy help me through my first trip through 3-2 (though I think he lagged out during Maneater because he almost immediately fell off the bridge, ((which is exactly what I ended up also doing/ride together die together))) and I had one guy get summoned as Old Monk but the warping was so bad I ended up pretty easily greatswording him to death. Never saw another player throughout my playthroughs :(
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internisus
shafer sephiroth


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:17 am        Reply with quote

Guys, in the last couple days I have seen lots of players' white phantoms running around, lots of bloodstains, lots of messages, and at least three summon signs that I recall. Some funny messages, too; someone wrote one directly behind that guy in the Nexus who keeps moaning about abandoning (I think) Urbain and wondering if he still prays in the darkness: "Kick." Someone got up on Blacksmith Ed's bed and wrote "Sticky white stuff" (of course). I like when people walk out onto precarious ledges just to write "Hi!" There's plenty of that all around as well as helpful messages, and I've received up-ratings on my own, too (I especially like to write warnings that crystal lizards lie ahead). I have less than 10 hours on this character, but things seem very active to me.
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Toptube
Anti-cabbage Party Candidate


Joined: 23 Apr 2007

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:38 am        Reply with quote

As much as I hate to say it---I would actually recommend NOT connecting to the servers during your first playthrough. To preserve the game's intended difficulty. If you are connected, you don't have to deal with the consequence of dying in human form. Also, you won't benefit as much from doing well/staying alive. Also, the game will likely hangout close to pure white, which makes it noticeably easier in difficulty, but also makes farming more difficult.
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klj5j6li
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:50 am        Reply with quote

I'd recommend not reading about/gaming all of the game's mechanics
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analogos
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Joined: 10 Jun 2007

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:20 am        Reply with quote

Toptube wrote:
As much as I hate to say it---I would actually recommend NOT connecting to the servers during your first playthrough. To preserve the game's intended difficulty.


can't tell you how much i disagree with this mindset. the game's "intended difficulty" was built around its online components as much if not more than its offline ones. imo the game's only intention is "hey go try some stuff and see what happens maybe you'll die maybe you won't". go get killed by some jerk invader in an unlucky, precarious situation you couldn't have possibly been prepared for. it's awesome. go find some message that tips you off to a big scary enemy around the next corner and still be scared anyway because whoa and hey are they even telling the truth? or don't be scared and totally kick the ass of the thing around the corner because you were ready for it and have a different experience than some other person in the same situation. it's awesome. it's all fine. some stuff will be easier, some stuff will be harder. just roll with it.

Quote:
but also makes farming more difficult.


probably shouldn't be too concerned about farming your first time through the game, if ever.

IntDin wrote:
I'd recommend not reading about/gaming all of the game's mechanics


yes.
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analogos
bravely default crying fairy


Joined: 10 Jun 2007

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:46 am        Reply with quote

also: i'm not sure about this whole trying to talk about demon's vs. dark's difficulty in some universal capacity irrespective of individual players' builds, consulting of outside help, time spent online vs. offline and/or in co-op/against invaders, play styles, patch version, etc., thing. there are too many variables to consider to boil the issue down to whether or not a boss is "a joke" or if one room has three enemies against the other game's two.

if i pick an int-focused royal with a crescent falchion+3000 and stand around waiting for my mp to refill every four steps and co-op maneaters the first time i even encounter them then i'm probably going to get a game about as easy as any hypothetical dark souls playthrough.

not that i don't find those more general differences interesting or worth talking about, i'm just surprised it's been limited to that and also think we probably shouldn't try to draw too many conclusions from them.
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internisus
shafer sephiroth


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:58 pm        Reply with quote

analogos wrote:
Quote:
but also makes farming more difficult.


probably shouldn't be too concerned about farming your first time through the game, if ever.

IntDin wrote:
I'd recommend not reading about/gaming all of the game's mechanics


yes.


I've read about equipment in order to establish a general plan for spending stat points just so I don't make any poor decisions that I can't reverse. There is no sense in which I've studied the game's mechanics in such detail as to have spoiled the game. In fact, I remain a poor authority even on those area I played previously. I still don't really know what weapons I'll wind up liking, much less where I'll find them, and it's just great luck that I wound up with the binding cross set so early. I'd even say that the plan I have come up with is inefficient and a poor min/max since it will (probably) split its focus between dexterity and magic; I mean, the very fact that I don't even know how interested I ultimately am in magic demonstrates my lack of understanding in the mechanics.

I thought the general consensus was that character attribute effects and weapon upgrading are both unnecessarily obtuse and worth reading up on?

I'm not concerned in any way with farming items during my first playthrough. I'm not really concerned with tendencies, either, though I'll try to find whatever opportunities become available when I hit a pure.

The only thing I'd really say I've spoiled for myself is: kill Yurt.

The thing about playing online my first time through is that I don't want any co-op assistance for anything I haven't already managed on my own. The messages and bloodstains are certainly helpful, but they seem pretty integral to the experience! Do they make the game easier? Sure, a little bit, but this form of cooperation is terribly charming, and it's clear that these online features are intentional parts of the game. I guess I wonder what a blind offline playthrough might feel like, but it can't be that much different from this!
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all monsters



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: 199X

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:42 am        Reply with quote

alright, took down adjudicator and leechmonger tonight. the few moments of panic when I stepped into the darkness of adjudicator's lair and had to size up its layout were excellent.

I'm feeling tough with my new setup; leather cap, wizard shoes, adjudicator shield, uchigatana and enough endurance to quick roll. still... I'm too nervous to approach the shadowmen of 4-2. the atmosphere in this is so much heavier than dark souls, the start of each new area is really intimidating.
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jjsimpso



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:09 am        Reply with quote

I'm close to finishing my offline run. I've mostly worked each world up to pure white tendency; the only one I've missed is world five. Still debating whether to bother with that and how much time to spend bringing worlds to pure black. I'll probably finish the game off soon and start playing online with this character in NG+.

Garl Vinland was a total pushover with a buckler, fatal rapier +1, and a master's ring to parry and riposte with. Is parrying a viable pvp strategy?
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:16 am        Reply with quote

Not really. Parry windows in Demon's Souls are way, way tighter than in Dark, as is that buffer where you miss the parry but it still counts as a block or partial block. (Actually I think that might not even exist.) Parries are much easier to miss, and missing them almost always means eating full damage.

Pure black is easy. If you explored thoroughly you ought to have enough stones of ephemeral eyes to just suicide and resurrect yourself in each world.
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Rud31
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:42 am        Reply with quote

hahahahahahahaaha

easily took me 20 hours hours to get my second bladestone good luck with that bro.

Or....
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Felix
unofficial repository


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:44 am        Reply with quote

4-2 is pretty horrific until you've figured out what parts you should just be skipping on repeat attempts
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Ronnoc



Joined: 26 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:27 am        Reply with quote

I just started a new character because a friend mentioned he had never finished the game and I wanted to co-op with him. I forgot how much I love this game, it really is fantastic.

I also forgot that I didn't beat it until I got a new TV. On my old TV (aka, currently my only TV), it's so dark I keep getting hit by guys jumping out of the blackness. Guess I'll buy a HDMI-VGA cable or something.
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Toptube
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Joined: 23 Apr 2007

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:49 am        Reply with quote

Ronnoc wrote:
I just started a new character because a friend mentioned he had never finished the game and I wanted to co-op with him. I forgot how much I love this game, it really is fantastic.

I also forgot that I didn't beat it until I got a new TV. On my old TV (aka, currently my only TV), it's so dark I keep getting hit by guys jumping out of the blackness. Guess I'll buy a HDMI-VGA cable or something.


I'm assuming you meant HDMI-DVI cable? If so, don't pay too much.
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jjsimpso



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:57 pm        Reply with quote

CubaLibre wrote:
Not really. Parry windows in Demon's Souls are way, way tighter than in Dark, as is that buffer where you miss the parry but it still counts as a block or partial block. (Actually I think that might not even exist.) Parries are much easier to miss, and missing them almost always means eating full damage..


I guess I've just gotten better at parrying since playing Dark Souls then! I just parried the fuck out of black phantom Lord Rydell. I always use the buckler though, which gives a larger window, or at least it does in Dark Souls.

CubaLibre wrote:
Pure black is easy. If you explored thoroughly you ought to have enough stones of ephemeral eyes to just suicide and resurrect yourself in each world.


Yeah, I was more concerned with the time it takes to kill all those fools, but I've already taken three out. I'm not that much of a completionist, but I'll probably take the time to do it.
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Ronnoc



Joined: 26 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:26 am        Reply with quote

I started a new character and killed the red dragon in 1-2 so I could hit pure white super fast and get the binded cross armor. Feelin' pretty pro
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:44 am        Reply with quote

internisus wrote:

I thought the general consensus was that character attribute effects and weapon upgrading are both unnecessarily obtuse and worth reading up on?


only if you're planning on doing PVP, really. the game is designed in a way that you can complete it without having to optimize your character & their weapons. pick stuff that feels fun to use, upgrade it along the way your stats are going (a nice 1h weapon w/ low str/dex requirements for a INT focused enchantment for a mage, etc) and you'll be fine.
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