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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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 Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:17 am |
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| field balm wrote: |
| anyone got suggestions for indie racing games? |
Does TrackMania count?
Because if so, that's really all you need. |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:57 pm |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| i don't think he gets that making a game can be the best game. |
Why does it matter? No matter how much fun you have making it, it can still be not worth playing.
I don't see what makes these bad games immune to criticism. |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:02 pm |
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I think his point is just that the games are terrible, and that doesn't have anything to do with whether they were fun to make.
And from the player's perspective, since there's no reason to play them, there is no reason for them to be made.
I'm sure you can have fun making good games too. |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:17 pm |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| Norberton wrote: |
| And from the player's perspective, since there's no reason to play them, there is no reason for them to be made. |
except that, you know, the creators don't give a shit. |
Hence "the player's perspective".
We're players. |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:32 pm |
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He doesn't have a bone to pick with the people who made them. He's only criticizing their work.
The value of one's work reflects on the person who made it, no matter how much "fun" they had making it. |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:14 pm |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| hahaha, i really hope you have never made anything. |
You don’t have to lay an egg to know if it tastes good.
Your responses are indirect, snarky, and childish.
I guess criticizing an indie game automatically makes you affiliated with that person. Note that that does not actually refute any of his criticisms. |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:37 pm |
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Wow.
Well, nothing to see here. |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:30 am |
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| birdcloud wrote: |
| every question of a game being worth your time applies just as well to a piece of criticism |
I don't think there's anything wrong with weekend game jams. They sound like a lot of fun for the people who attend them. I was referring to parts like this:
| unlabored flawlessness wrote: |
| That rara racer game is hilariously awful. Why am I playing a game that could have been made by a six-year-old in a youtube window with gay porn links? Why are there popups that get automatically clicked, taking control away just long enough to kill me? Why are the graphics random pixel blobs? |
| unlabored flawlessness wrote: |
| The first game is an oversimplified Mr. Driller with consequence-free deaths and "dramatic" pacing. The second has some nice ambient beats (that don't loop correctly), but the graphics are almost nonexistent, and as far as I can tell it's just a series of basic block puzzles linked together. So it's the final dungeon of Skyward Sword with everything interesting removed. |
Which, if they are true, and I don't doubt that they are, are very worthwhile criticisms. It saved me the time of playing those games. |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:22 am |
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I'll be thinking about that post for a while.
Thank you.
I withdraw. |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:21 am |
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Okay, well, the impact wore off and the science-fiction isn't so compelling anymore.
This is a nice warning for people who are so consumed by cynicism and delusions of authority that they forget what is good anymore. But we need to understand and acknowledge what is bad for us to appreciate what is good, even if it's only for ourselves. I don't care for the conventional review style, using a number as a thesis, or any kind of quality categorization including Top 10 lists. I'm aware that those activities are pointless and purpose-defeating unless you enjoy them, and if you enjoy them you might end up enjoying writing about videogames more than you enjoy them and nothing you write will be of any value to anyone else.
unlabored flawlessness played those games on the recommendation of others here, thought they sucked, and gave concise and sharp reasons why. There's nothing wrong with that. If he continued to post in this thread exclusively to attack games, well, obviously he'd be wasting his time.
Nobody is setting up a podium.
You can save your prophecy for someone determined in his ways.
Last edited by Norberton on Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:27 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:47 am |
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| L wrote: |
| TBH I personally dispute that "consequence-free deaths and "dramatic" pacing." really makes sense as a coherent complain, especially since he's said approximately the same thing about Super Meat Boy. |
Well, he at least tried. |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:36 am |
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You're right, I still don't get it. I'm trying to, though.
Are you saying all criticism is invalid? That reviews shouldn't exist?
Can't criticism be an experience in and of itself? Can't we list flaws in an absolute sense, relating to only that game and not a general template for how games of that genre or games in general should be made, and would that be okay?
This isn't obvious stuff!
| birdcloud wrote: |
| a list of flaws isn't even a list of flaws because that objective, rational, scientific superstructure which could tell you what is a flaw |
I already said I didn't believe in an "objective, rational, scientific" structure to what is good or bad. It isn't hard to understand why someone thinks something is a flaw, and it isn't hard to see where your tastes converge.
Last edited by Norberton on Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:51 am |
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| Dark Age Iron Savior wrote: |
| Norberton/uf, I task you with developing a game written and designed by JChastain. |
I've written a couple rudimentary text adventures in Inform before. I could do that.
Of course, it would probably be counter-intuitive for one person to write an IF and another person to code it, since these tasks go directly hand-in-hand and would result in a disjointed creative vision.
| Dark Age Iron Savior wrote: |
| Criticism is like a camera. For it to be useful in more than a few select situations, it has to be able to adopt multiple perspectives. Or a bit more directly: Not many people go to a 7-11 to record their home movies on the security camera. |
I'm not saying there should be universal standards for videogames. I don't know what I said that would imply that. |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:35 am |
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| DAIS wrote: |
| Really, you should play Rara Racer for yourself and consider how most people here feel that effective interactive entertainment can encompass both DooM and LSD. |
Oh my god.
Oh my god wow.
I should have never doubted increpare.
Yeah, I get it. It is totally disingenuous to judge this by any standard besides the game's own intentions, which are quite clearly fulfilled. In abundance. I apologize for defending unlabored flawlessness.
I'm gonna spend the rest of the evening playing more increpare games.
Thank you DAIS.
| unlabored flawlessness wrote: |
| That rara racer game is hilariously awful. Why am I playing a game that could have been made by a six-year-old in a youtube window with gay porn links? Why are there popups that get automatically clicked, taking control away just long enough to kill me? Why are the graphics random pixel blobs? |
Yeah, this is pretty worthless. |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:43 am |
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I misread his motives.
Um, I'll start posting indie games to get this back on track.
PROUN is a really neat thing and I wrote a thread on why I like it. (don't go anywhere else there it's terrible)
Cubes is eight-player online 3D TRON lightcycles with weapons. Counterclockwise is a more nuanced singleplayer take on the same concept. |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:42 am |
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Let's list the increpare puzzle games.
English Country Tune
Microtone
Puppy Shelter
Untris
Line Bender counts I guess
Traveling
Catalan
Striptease
??? |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:52 am |
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the Message is "butts" haha it's funny because it's juvenile and retarded xd
see, look, it's hilarious
this sort of indie game is really what's pushing the industry and the artform forward, I tell you. why do I need big-budget AAA soulless corporation productions like Halo 4 when I can just click links in my web browser while ambient YouTube noise plays in another tab until I get to such a deafeningly witty punchline as pictured
thank you L, I look forward to all the other fantastic hyperlink-clicking experiences you'll post about. this was a very valuable usage of my time and I hope others can appreciate this brilliance game of the year 2012 |
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Norberton
banned
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:48 am |
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| AllenSmithee wrote: |
| also just how juvenile is this post? ? |
Just about appropriate to the subject. Context.
| AllenSmithee wrote: |
| and for the sake of all that is anything, if you really think it is kosher to use "retarded" as a slur |
I am using "retarded" to describe something which is retarded, not someone who. It wouldn't be improper to describe someone who if that were indeed the case and it was the correct social context to acknowledge the state of things as they are. Regardless, the story is retarded, and I do not feel at all imprecise or disingenuous or unnecessarily offensive by using that term.
It doesn't bother me much at all. The link evaporated from my mind the moment I hit submit, and now again I have to deal with the consequences of acknowledging things as they are, or as I see them. |
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