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aderack
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:00 am |
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| I agree with Intentionally Wrong. |
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aderack
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:36 am |
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Best solution, if you're a concerned film director: tell your kid that, on a daily basis, he can't play a game for longer than the length of an average movie. Then he has to go do something constructive for an equal length of time. Perhaps analyze what he got out of the experience, in some medium or another.
And there we go. |
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aderack
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:19 am |
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Art is a means of communication through implicit, rather than explicit, symbolism and meant to appeal to the subconscious and intuition, rather than to the conscious and reason.
This communication can be conducted through any medium. The fun part about it: intent needn't even be a factor; merely communication. So if the recipient of a manmade work reads in it something that was not consciously intended by its creator, that reading (presuming it's genuine) is as legitimate an interpretation as any based upon a deliberate message. Perhaps more so.
As regards non-manmade works -- a sunset, a rainbow, an orangutan; whatever natural beauty you might appreciate -- that's somewhat different in the sense that, provided you aren't subscribing to a supernatural interpretation of artist (say, God), it truly is a one-sided conversation.
I suppose the act of receiving an artistic message would best be described as inspiration. One may be inspired by anything, of course; art is simply a manufactured way of appealing to that impulse.
So, as I've said again and again, videogames cannot be art in the sense that nothing can be art; they're simply an artistic medium, in the sense that any medium may be artistic. All they do is communicate the art with which they are designed. |
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aderack
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:23 am |
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| JamesE wrote: |
So when Shylock adresses the audience and says...
The Merchant of Venice ceases to be art, resuming only when act Act III, scene I ends? |
No. See, it was never art to begin with.
| Ging wrote: |
| Art is when we apply abstraction to create meaning out of our very coincidental existence. |
That's roughly true, yes. Sort of.
Last edited by aderack on Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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aderack
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:26 am |
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| I've got two degrees. How many do you have? |
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aderack
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:41 pm |
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| JamesE wrote: |
| The Merchant of Venice is a pretty complex historical work which either ends up as an anti-Jewish popularist piece, a subversive attack on racial and religious prejudice, or a commentary on the nature of repentance*. It owes nothing to the biological or survivalist drives. That for me and for many, many other people is art. I also think the arrangement of fridge magnets is wonderful art. So would Clares Oldenburg, if he's not to busy being really old. |
See. What you're missing or ignoring here is that it isn't that the work itself is art, it's that the work itself is a vessel for art -- in the same way that words aren't meaning; they convey meaning.
The word is often misused to refer to things. It only really applies to ideas. Works of art communicate those ideas; they aren't ideas in and of themselves. All they are is paint on canvas, or ink on a page. Without communication, they're nothing.
Considering that you just listed out a pile of ideas communicated by that particular work as evidence for why it's so important, you don't seem to disagree on principle. You just seem to be pointlessly acting like an ass toward me. |
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aderack
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:49 pm |
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| JamesE wrote: |
| I don't usually put that amount of effort into responding to Aderack, because he seriously seems to think he has everything worked out definitively, innocent of things like constructed arguments or citations. His response was that he'd got it all worked out in the usual (seemingly) smug, arrogant, tone, which I usually find pretty objectionable. |
See, the issue here is that I do have it worked out (at least as far as it goes), and that your (itself antagonistic) response was based on either a misreading of or a failure to read what I wrote. This seems to be the basis of a lot of your screaming at me. I think maybe your blood pressure would go down a few notches if you'd work on your reading comprehension a little.
Seriously, it happens so frequently that I'm a little amazed. And I'm not trying to be rude here. Besides you, James, I don't think I've encountered anyone who so consistently misconstrues what I've said and then so consistently refuses to listen to any later clarifications. I don't know why it keeps happening. Since I don't really have this problem with other people, I've got to conclude it's on your end.
I mean. I'm not even the only person you respond to like this, for what seems like the same reason -- not so much a tacit disagreement as a failure to communicate. So. I'm not sure what other conclusion I should make.
Maybe it doesn't help, my responding so snippily; it's just, after a certain point it starts to feel deliberate on your end. It would be one thing if you'd accept the idea that maybe you didn't get everything right the first time, and maybe further discussion could clear things up. Instead, you generally dig in your heels and start in on the insults. So, you know, why should I try?
That was, incidentally, the point of that message I sent you. I tried to suggest maybe if you'd quit jumping to conclusions about everything I say, and responded civilly, I'd try to respond the same way. How did you respond? By openly mocking me. Again, what am I expected to do here? |
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aderack
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:34 pm |
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For that matter, why do you take such interest in my hobbies? In my life? Why do you keep injecting them into your torrents against me? If you dislike me so much, why do you seem to deliberately seek out what I've written, wherever I've written it, specifically to later complain about? It's just plain odd.
I've already said that I don't have any particular problem with you, other than your continuous antagonism toward me. I'm just not particularly concerned with you; you yell at me, I go find something else to pay attention to. I admit perhaps I dismiss you too readily, and it's probably not to my credit that I neither feel nor display much respect or empathy for you. Again, though, I'm not sure what's expected of me here.
Just what is your problem, anyway? What's wrong with you? There's something deep and festering and angry in there, beyond anybody's reach. What, am I supposed to appeal to it? Am I supposed to break through your irascible armor to find and cherish the real you? Am I supposed to reciprocate your interest in me? Am I supposed to psychoanalyze you? Ignore you? I sure don't know the proper response -- so tell me, what do you want from me?
Last edited by aderack on Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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aderack
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:36 pm |
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| JamesE wrote: |
| Objectively, it is matter shaped to the whims of a man who died in 1990 which was covered with bird shit in Morrocco. Subjectively it is whatever the hell anyone wants it to be. |
And, you know, that's pretty much exactly what I was saying. |
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aderack
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:47 pm |
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| Thanks for the cat thing, though. |
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aderack
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:41 pm |
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Hey.
Yeah, this kind of sucks. |
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