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showka
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:02 am Post subject: Re: Dracula X Chronicles |
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| kiken wrote: |
| Shapermc wrote: |
| As any “would-be Belmont” knows, the PS1 version of SotN wasn’t the only one released. Recently the Saturn version of the game was lambasted on the 1up Retro Show by Jeremy Parish and crew. But we all know that you’ve been dieing to see these things added to an official version of SotN without the drawbacks of the Saturn hardware. Two new areas, selectable playable characters from the start, and a whole new character, Maria (who I’m told plays a bit like Mega Man, and is possibly the only reason to try the Saturn version). But what does Igarashi have to say when asked about these things getting put on the Chronicles collection? |
There were no drawbacks to the Saturn hardware in respect to this game. The Saturn can do 2D alpha blending just fine (see Astal for some beautiful examples of this). Don't blame a shitty port on the hardware. Konami farmed the Saturn version out to one of their worst divisions. Is it a surprise that the port ended up the way it did?
Also, the extra areas are technically in the PS1 version. They are incomplete but can be accessed through various means (just don't save in any of the coffin rooms in those regions otherwise you'll corrupt your file). So it would make sense to offer the more complete game in a revisionist collection. |
One big draw back of the Saturn hardware everyone forgets is that it could not do one of the resolution modes that was most popular on the SNES and PSX. The worst part about the port is that all the graphics were stretched in order to maintain their original aspect ratio, leading everything to look really blocky.
I've heard elsewhere that the Saturn had problems with transparencies, or could only offer them in some limited way or something. Check out Treasure's games: in Guardian Heroes, the dither effect is used for everything except Nicole's cape. Same thing in Radiant Silvergun, when the characters are talking only one has a transparent background, the rests have solid gray backgrounds.
Hell, even Megaman X4 used dithered transparencies for the search lights in the opening stage (and maybe other places too).
Castlevania was a 2D game but it was originally designed and coded for a platform that had no dedicated 2D hardware, so it had to use the 3D hardware. I have a feeling that porting this code to use the Saturn's 2D routines in ways that would allow it to show multiple transparencies would've been nearly impossible unless they re-wrote more code than they had time to do. Although I guess I never tolerate the "they didn't have time" excuse when I talk about IGA, so I shouldn't pardon the flaws. But I'd guess it's less not-excusable than you think.
Also, was Astal any good? I remember seeing it years ago on the demo disc that came with my Saturn and being intrigued. |
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showka
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:29 am |
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| Kiken wrote: |
The resolution doesn't have to be an issue. Look at other ports that appeared on both pieces of hardware, like Metal Slug. Despite the shift from 320x224 to 352x224, the Saturn version still looks pretty much the same as the PS1 version. Again, chalk this up to a rushed port. |
This is a difference of 32x0. The PSX version of the game used a resolution of 256 x 224. The Saturn's lowest resolution was 320 x 240. Thats a difference of 64x16, which would have been noticeable. The only solutions were to stretch it, put bars on the sides, or just increase the viewing area, which would have made some areas that had been one screen wide in the original - like the CD loading hall or save room - to have been redesigned or have noticeable space on either side. If they really wanted to go all out, they also could have redrawn all the graphics.
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Most, if not all of the issues I've read about Saturn transparencies revolve around 3D ones... which for the most part, were problematic (I think Elan Doree is one of the few that did some really nice 3D transparencies although it used some really weird dual-resolution interlacing effect to handle it... I think Burning Rangers used a similar trick).
The mesh effect with 2D games was normally either unfamiliarity with the hardware (the Saturn hardware was capable of some amazing stuff, but let's face it, it ended up being like a fucking Chinese Puzzle Box in regards to figuring the correct uses out) or laziness. Aside from Astal, look at stage 3 in Soukyuugurentai... you plunge through layer upon layer of transparent clouds without any messing. |
Again, my theory is that when they ported the game the code was set up in such a way that it was more effecient to use the Saturn's 3D hardware. This guy I just found via google has a few theories I share.
This is also a pretty good site I found which discusses the systems technological differences. |
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showka
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:25 pm |
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Yes. In fact I wrote a 2D game engine that uses OpenGL, and if you want your game to take advantage of the 3D hardware there no other way to do it.
I was thinking about this last night, one draw back to doing 2D with 3D hardware is how texture memory is used. For example, most textures should not be larger than 256x256 pixels, even on newer cards. In the past, cards had lower limits, like 64x64. Strange things also happen if your textures aren't a power of two, strange things that can totally fuck up your alogirthms for showing 2D graphics without stretching them.
I created code that, from the outside, just lets you take any old bitmap and then create a sprite that has a position on screen and then cordinates for that bitmap. But within that code, things are more complicated. The bitmaps are sliced into as many textures as they need to have, those textures are expanded to be powers of 2, and then the sprite routines might have to draw multiple textured quads for what appears to be one sprite if the source image is more than 256 pixels in either direction.
I'd be willing to say that a PSX game from 1997 didn't take the time to create an abstract layer like this, because 1) having game code call a sort of library created just for handling the 2D geometery would slow things down a little bit compared to working with the graphics hardware, or structures that were used by the graphics hardware, directly and 2) the fact Nintendo had to flip the entire damn world in Twilight Princess to make Link right handed makes me think Japanese game coders prefer to make the game work rather than ensure they're code is set up to handle the possibility it might need to work differently one day. What I'm trying to say is that Symphony of the Night is most likely filled with code that is made for the 3D. Almost all the code for doing anything graphical, from how Richter's whip moved to Alucards after-images, was hard coded to work with flat polygons and small pools of texture memory.
One solution would have been to have created a system that acted like a facade of the PSX's 3D hardware, so it took data structures or interfaces that looked the same as what was used for the PSX's graphics and then passed them through some code that used the Saturn's 2D hardware. But this might have been prohibitively expensive in terms of time, there may have been so much PSX specific code in the game to make this impossible, or maybe how the Saturn dealt with 2D (especially with how the graphics were stored in memory) was so different that it would've slowed the game down.
So the only solution was to try and use the Saturn's 3D methods, or reprogram vast portions of the game, and while they were doing that they might as well have redrawn everything since even if they'd added the transparencies or gotten rid of the slow down the graphics would still look blocky. Since I've always heard the Saturn dev team was strapped for time, this probably was not an option.
Really, its kind of annoying to hear people chalk up the flaws in ports to developer laziness. There are severe differences between the archeticture of the PSX that would make porting the games difficult unless the original game was programmed from the start under the assumption that it might be ported. Given that no Castlevania title aside from SOTN ever had a direct port before, I can't see how it would have been. |
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