[shnozlak]

When you buy upgrade kits from tuner shops they typically have 'stage' packages that include for example a turbo some piping and a re-tuning of the fuel map. It might also require drilling into the oil pan to add feeder lines for the turbo or welding a bracket to the frame for the intercooler or oil cooler or even moving the radiator to make room for a the inter-cooler and extra piping. They typically have a claimed number of X extra HP over stock but in reality the results are variable depending on the manufacturing tolerances of your stock engine. Its a lot more than swapping in a kit or bolting something one once you get past entry level.

that would be cool to see in action but an absurd level of extra detail to 3D model and get semi accurate.
_________________
Mixtapes galore ~ VG MUSIC
ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ http://phantom-photon.tumblr.com/

[boojiboy7]

Yeah, the Forza 4 car porn mode was neat, but wanting that level of detail for every car would be just $$$$.

You could do a game about only one car model and take it to that level, but that would be about the only way to do it without a stupendously huge budget (which is saying something, considering how much Sony and MS pump into their respective series).

[shnozlak]

[Victor]

In depth analysis: Cape Ring was more fun than Silverstone.

[Sticky Root]

i'd hate to see a realistic, part-by-part engine bay installation scheme for upgrades; its the exact opposite of what games like GT need to progress as compelling games. gran turismo's already been steadily chugging toward being a car-based fetish simulator, what with all the lovingly rendered, never-seen crash helmets and suits and oil changes et cetera. polyphony's seems solely influenced by car magazines, owing to the fact that nobody on the team ever actually drove cars in anger (until recently). if you haven't felt the g-forces yourself, it's easy to get mired in the thick, alternate universe of car media, with its fierce emphasis on the concrete.

the idea of upgrade parts and discrete stages---even in real life---as items to covet and fetishize, instead of means to an end, is kinda creepy. more importantly, it's boring. it reminds me of those camera gear enthusiasts who obsess over and collect thousand dollar lenses and bodies, yet never go outside to take pictures.

these "power level" upgrades exist in the real because it's difficult to convey---and measure---the abstract purposes the parts are meant to achieve. it's hard to demonstrate those purposes with walls of text, static pictures, or even videos---bitches gotta get paid, i guess, so: power levels.

for videogames to pass off PR techniques(?) as entertainment is nasty, but when those PR techniques are meant as a solution to limitations videogames don't even have, and videogames are ideally suited to comprehension of the concepts the PR shit was designed to obfuscate, it's obscene. GT5:prologue actually dabbled in this: it banished tuning parts and granted immediate access to the variables, let you race your own concoction and vie against real people to meet an abstract constriction that could never exist in real life. i was enthralled. every span of play felt like an arms race, a continually evolving exploitation of rules against opponents who did the same. cars as a means to explore my need to be The Best, instead of cars as an avenue for object fixation.

(then the full GT5 debuted and every scrap of that system was gone, and it was obvious that the GT5:p magic had been a happy accident borne out of their lack of time.)

i don't want to pay tribute to archetypes of reality hacks, i want to hack that shit myself in an appropriately constrained mini-reality.
(give me that shit, GT6, give me that sweet honey plz)

so yeah, fuck stage 2 upgrades and the like

[Toptube]

[Toptube]

[parker]

Well all I know about cars is what I've learned in the past year trying to build an old ass chevy muscle car. I guess I want a game about that kind of experience. I just want a car game that's the two lane blacktop of car videogames. Or a boxing game that's the fat city of boxing videogames etc. Why does every videogame have to be about being the millionaires, where are the regular people.
_________________

[Toptube]

gran turismo does a pretty good job of representing everyday type cars, as well as the types of cars that amateurs would use in a more serious amateur situation. But I'm willing to bet organized races online for those sorts of cards are pretty uncommon.

[Gironika]

Never forget that there's ENTHUSIA, in all its caps glory, that seems more dedicated/enthusiastic to the whole "experience a car" aspect. The thing is - you have to find out yourself. There's no nice and tidy scrolling textbox that tells you "this car has been made in X and is special because of Y", it is rather up to you to have that "whoa"-moment after figuring out that this very car has been sent to Le Mans in the 1950ies, with barely an upgrade.

(Also very important advice for life: You just can't drift a DS.)




And then there's the Genki-lot of Kaido-/Shutoku(?)-games that let you go a bit crazy with customization.
_________________

[tacotaskforce]

Starring all your favorite characters and based on your favorite story arc

http://www.thewrap.com/movies/column-post/gran-turismo-movie-revs-sony-fifty-shades-grey-producers-exclusive-105431
_________________

[Gironika]

they are joking, right?


……… right?







I mean, you could make an ENTHUSIA movie (which is, by default, better than that GT-movie would ever be) based on that intro alone.
But GT? Seriously?
_________________

[Gironika]

btw,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeO2q8FzcnM
_________________

[shnozlak]

looking forward to Rush (not sanfrancisco) really hard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHCXKJyzD8Q
_________________
Mixtapes galore ~ VG MUSIC
ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ http://phantom-photon.tumblr.com/

[Gironika]

this movie (imagine that in nicki lauda accent) …… i try not to get my hopes up/too high.




still, lauda-accent is 100% on the mark, a surprising thing, to say the least.
_________________

[Teflon]

[Moogs]

I want a pretty racer that's not too sim-y. Didn't like Most Wanted because I'm sick of Criterion crash porn. Forza Horizon is nice, yeah?

[Takashi]

Nice to see BeamNG is going along fine. I feel like everything is still a bit too bouncy, tho:

_________________

low-end.net | Whimsy (soon) | Serfdom 2.0

[geinou]

[Gironika]

[allensmithee]

[1CC]

I want to buy a new car IRL and I do want to know what's out there. Specifically, I'd like to get something small and sporty, maybe a two-seater, most likeley used, probably Japanese.

Is there some kind of automobile-encyclopedia or wiki that has information and pictures? Should I get a Gran Turismo guidebook? There only seems to be a track guide for GT5, and the GT4 guide I got doesn't have pictures of all used cars. Too bad used car selection is randomized in those games.

[Teflon]

The only guide I have is my miiiind maaaan.
- Note the most exciting thing I've ever driven IRL is a first gen Ford Ka because that's about the maximum performance you can really use around here (its basically a backwards 60s Lotus Elan with a roof). This is strictly just Gran Turismo insight for the most part -

First of all buy a Miata. It's widely considered unbeatable in cost/fun ratio because no other enthusiast focused car was ever built in such numbers. It's a legit fucking thoroughbred RWD sports roadster you can buy for three grand. It's never been powerful with output ranging from 110 to 150 HP for the nineties shape ones and 120-170 HP for the 2005-onwards 'derpface' models. Even though curb weight starts at under a metric ton for the OG NA up to about 1150 for the very heaviest model you can order today there is still a very real chance of it getting destroyed at the lights by a diesel Golf. As far as handling is concerned though, there is a reason literally half (okay maybe not literally) the races in Gran Turismo feature Miatas which is that there are very few cars as superbly balanced as a Miata at any price. A lot of cars are faster, some are even more nimble but the Miata is just this perfect blend of lively yet forgiving. And make no mistake it'll still corner faster than anything this side of an Actual Lotus. The generation you want mostly comes down to which you think looks better as the performance didn't change that much between the NA and NB models. The new(est) model is kind of the redheaded stepchild of the family, it admirably resisted (most of) the bloating the car industry in general suffers from but at the same time yyeeaah here's a brand new $25K sportscar that's not that much better than the model we introduced in 1988 and looks worse. A full model change is coming up in 2014 (they're slashing the weight back to around a ton and giving it 1.3 turbo engine) which should drive the current bulbous model's prices down a ways.

If for some ungodly reason you don't want a Miata or are unwilling to amputate your lower legs in order to fit into one (Joseph Gordon-Levitt drives one in Looper and they took off the seat bottoms to get him lower in the car even though he's like five feet tall) your alternatives are:

- Hondacura Integra Type R/Type S. Very well-balanced, probably the nicest handling FWD sports coupe around. I don't know how rare or expensive these are because they were never officially sold here. Power is about 200bhp and found mainly in the upper regions of the rev band. VTEC JUST KICKED IN YO. Roomier than a Miata and handsome in weird way, like the overall shape is so bland it satisfies a deep need in the souls of men to have a bland sports coupe around.

- Honda S2000. Often regarded as a slightly more butch Miata but actually closer to a Porsche Boxster in performance. Had the highest revving car engine in the world at the time of its introduction, reaching 9000RPM before fuel cut-off. Peak power is literally twice that of its contemporary base Miata at 240 BHP but getting there requires revving past most cars' rev limiters. Get a titanium grey one with red leather. Downsides include holy shit a fifteen year old engine with a 9K redline not rigorously serviced by a Ferrari dealer twice a month. Still kind of expensive but not as outrageous as they were new.

- Honda EK Civic Type S/R. Just old enough not to be a total embarrassment anymore but not quite a cult classic yet. Same engine as its Integra contemporaries in an iconic hatchback package. I don't know if any non-ruined examples still exist. Doesn't handle as gud as the Integra due to chassis designed for grocery fetchquests but still nothing to scoff at.

- DSM turbos (pre-2000, post-2000 models are abominable). Handful of badge engineered coupes built by Mitsubishi/Chrysler joint venture Diamond Star Motors including the Mitsu Eclipse, Eagle Talon and Plymouth 'haha' Laser. Weirdly not available in Dodge flavor. Turbo models use the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo's engine block in a somewhat milder tune producing 200bhp. Lanevo turbos bolt right on! GS-T FWD Turbo models sound terrifying, AWD model kind of porky at nearly 1500kgs.

- Nissan Silvia/###SX family. US spec 240SX literally runs a truck engine, don't do it man. Used European spec CA18DET 180SX turbos were incredibly cheap here for a time until I got my license and they suddenly weren't. Probably all beat to death by drifters by now. JDM spec SR20DET turbo (200SX or Silvie) much lusted after by JDM heads for seemingly no other reasons than the fact they can't have it and the SR in the engine code supposedly stands for Street Racing.

- Toyota MR2 (90s). The Japanese Pontiac Fiero. Mid-engined, reasonably light (1180kg for a closed one and 1280 for the T-top) and putting out respectable power in turbo flavor (200bhp). Never that great in games but I imagine anything mid engined with a T-top can't be too bad IRL. Still pretty cheap here.
- Toyota MR-S (2000s serves as the third-gen MR-2 in other territories) take all the ingredients of a Miata, stir wrong, end up with a car that looks identical on paper (superior even considering it's mid-engined) but is nowhere near as good to drive.
- Toyota Celica. Man I'm not a Toyota fan. If you want an Integra that's worse in every conceivable way have I got the car for you! They stopped building Celica and were like 'nah there's no demand for sports coupes' when really there just was no demand for the bland uninspiring Celica or the mediocre MR-2/S. Recently they've turned things around in a big way with the GT86, even if 90% of the engineering was done by Subaru.

Speaking of which, the GT86 is supposed to be everything the Miata is but even moreso. Dudes having religious experiences on twisty roads and shit. I still prefer the Miata feel in games but I can imagine IRL the extra 50bhp and stiffer coupe chassis would make more of a difference than they do from my couch (where getting the Mazda to put out similar numbers happens to be trivial). Good silhouette but kind of like something Rockstar would put into GT V in the details.

[boojiboy7]

Other problems of Miata:

- Ridiculously low weight allowances. My dad was all set to buy one when I was in high school, until he found out that him and I combined would be over the recommended max weight for the thing. Now, both of us are big dudes, so this might not be a problem for you, but yeah, it is something to consider.

-Fuck Mazda oil filters FOREVER. If you like changing your own oil, you will find out why this sucks, unless you have tiny arms with some extra joints.

None of these make them not fun cars, mind you.

[Schwere Viper]

[shnozlak]

Just do a basic rust check. Or buy one from a sunny location like Florida or Cali if you are in the US. Sand and repaint any developing rust spots. Some cars are just rust famous.

Id love a 240sx with a 20det or LS1 v8 engine swap.
1980s Porsche 911s are going for 16 - 22K USD. Id already be driving one if not for my lack of credit history. Prolly will get it in a year or two as long as no major life events ruin it for me. Or if the call of the datsun proves stronger.

A really cool project / tuner car would be a 1980s Toyota Starlet. Its basically an old rear wheel drive camry but with 2 doors instead of 4. Removing the seats gets them down under 2000 lbs making this one of the lightest rwd cars you can buy. I hear tell you can swap in suspension parts developed for the ae86 as the geometry and bolt patterns are all the same.

looks really cool with box flares.
http://www.drivingsports.com/site/wp-content/gallery/1981-toyota-starlet/dsweek003_starlet_lito_05.JPG

As for the value of a balanced car... A slightly tail happy car can be a good bit of fun.

The 9.5K redline of the s2k doesn't make it a less reliable engine any more than motorcycle engines that go to 14K on motor bikes of the era. The thing bout the S2000 is that there is no real upgrade path for HP. You cant turbo it without deactivating the v-tec and lowering the compression ratio. At that point you've utterly changed the character of the car. The suspension is already amazing so you can roll stock and feel like your getting the most out of it. Its a pretty fun little car to drive.

You can turbo kit a miata to push 200-250 out of the original cast iron block. ...or you can swap in a v8 from a camaro or corvette with a kits for insane horse power. Aluminum chevy v8s weigh less than the stock cast iron in-line 4 so you actually make the car lighter and more rear biased. You could build a miata into a 400hp car for around 9K in materials (including the base car). Though you'll want to spend extra on some fat wheels and tires to keep you out of the ditch. Ive never personally driven a miata.

Beam NG drive is pretty fun but CRIMINALLY wheel support is still garbage.
The truck you can swap parts on makes for some fun combinations. I cant wait till that is more widely supported.
_________________
Mixtapes galore ~ VG MUSIC
ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ http://phantom-photon.tumblr.com/

[1CC]

@Teflon: Thank you very much. Any thoughts on the Honda CRX Del Sol?

@Schwere Viper: I won't get no '80s car, I'm a '90s child.

[Victor]

S2000 is going to have the best price-performance ratio out of the box of anything used from Japan, will smoke a 1stgen Boxster. Super well built, but has high doors that make it hard to hang an elbow - priorities.

Miata was the most fun car I've owned (they got the larger engine in 94, the shittier body/everything in 99), get a wood steering wheel and start drag racing minivans at stoplights.

If you are not tied to Japanese, a first gen M Roadster, apart from the terrible interior build quality, is quite a lot of car for under ten grand usd. Prices should be on par with comparable s2000. Probably not quite as serious on a track as the s2000 (before the BMW's engine upgrade in 2001, but those are expensive) but who cares. Looks cooler, has a little badge on the back that will allow you to converse with wealthy people.

You could probably still get an NSX for the price of a new FRS/BRZ/GT86.

[boojiboy7]

[1CC]

[shnozlak]

The old NSX prices are going to JUMP when the new one comes out.
_________________
Mixtapes galore ~ VG MUSIC
ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ http://phantom-photon.tumblr.com/

[Schwere Viper]

To be honest, the real answer is to get the Daihatsu Copen, the happiest car on the road.



:D
_________________
HeavyViper@Twitter ~~~ HeavyViper@Soundcloud
Blog: Machines That Sing

[Sticky Root]

[Gironika]

Since 1cc wants something for curvy mountain roads, it seems like a car that handles well and is forgiving is more important than hitting 200 mph in 3.4 seconds. The usual suspects have already been mentioned time and again (S2000, Integra (rare in Germany, so rather the Civic Type-R), Miata), and I'd say that you can't go wrong with that.

I've got some intel on Boxsters from a work-colleague that has been driving Porsches for the last 30 years and if you take your time, you can find a good used Boxster for ~10k with a trustworthy history, no modifications and serviced regularly. Still, if Caymans weren't so expensive (not dipping below 20k), he'd probably recommend getting one of these without PDKs, except if you do dislike a clicky manual-box, that is.

[Gironika]

so hey, WRC4 is coming out soon and F1 2013 has Championship back in the game (plus vintage F1-cars) - and I haven't bought GRID2 yet, but I guess this is the last batch of current-gen racing games we'll get. And I am already wondering which one I should get first/next …

GRID2 would be the (quite) obvious choice, but WRC4 seems like it has real™ stages (this time for <real>!!) and I have a hunch that I won't have too much chances to drive around F1 circuits as Romain Grosjean in the coming years. #1stworldproblems, indeed!
_________________

[Victor]

[1CC]

Hi there, I've been playing GT5 the last couple days, and I can't remember having this much fun with a GT game since, well never actually. I'm just using stock cars and don't do any modifications. After each race I check the used marketplace, because I can only do like four races to earn enough money before cars drop off the list. There are some tough decisions to be made. I also really adore the music in this game, sometimes I just let the cursor sit there and listen for a few moments.

A few things are puzzling me, maybe someone can help.
What happens if I don't do oil changes despite the warning bulb?
What does rigidity restoration do exactly?
Can I check how much miles I drove a used car?
How do I compare lap times in A-Spec races?

[tacotaskforce]

reduced horsepower
no idea
nope
also no
_________________

[Gironika]

[1CC]

Thanks!

I'm looking on g25 wheels on ebay right now, and I'm wondering if it's worth getting for the clutch and H-shifter, or if I should just get an old Driving Force Pro? I just get the feeling that the plain old gamepad is holding my GT5 enjoyment back.
_________________
pls ignore me i'm a shithead

[Victor]

G25/7 is a worthwhile upgrade but imo more for the improved build quality, pedal feel and force feedback drive setup than the shifter/clutch, which isn't particularly well implemented in GT5.