[Teflon]

Man I guess I'm totally out of the loop on this (last F1 sim I played was Grand Prix 4) but I'm mighty impressed because I could actually tell these models apart if they didn't have paint. It even has Nakajima on slicks in the middle of a monsoon which is a lot like him.

[geinou]

[Gironika]

I wonder how much setup-work they'll put into this, and to which extent your settings can influence the handling. Since it should appeal to a rather "normal" crowd, too many options might alienate them and probably make them end up not going into the setup screen at all, they'd probably use either a stock-setting for every race/track or the one that the game recommends.

The most viable option would be something like the auto-tune option in Forza3 where the game would take care of getting your car up to a certain class, although I haven't checked whether the game does setup-work as well.

If they do go ahead and do a "pro"-setup-mode though, I'd love to see some tutorial-stuff to motivate people to gain some knowledge and start getting a feel for what each setting does and how it all starts to come together.
I think that Forza3 is lacking there a bit. Sure, it provides the player with information on what setting influences what, but I've seen that a friend of mine didn't understand what the game tried to tell him, and thus he didn't want to get involved with setting up the car he was driving. I tried to explain it, but it's hard to tell someone who doesn't want to delve too deep into it since he gets the feeling that he'll never understand it anyway.
Plus it'd be interesting even for someone like a veteran who has watched and played many racing games and series to gain some insight into how setup works on these new cars. I know how to set up a car in Forza3 or GTR2 that I do not crash into things, setting up a F1-car should be quite a different beast though. And even if it's just a game, I'd love to gain some knowledge from that as well.


Obviously, things like using different tire compounds for the front- and back are a no-go in a F1-sim. But I'd love to tinker with the settings of the car while racing, kind of like you see the drivers working with the balance of the car (rather extreme example (but awesome at the same time): anyone remember Kimi Raikkonen crashing out of .. qualifying I think it was? in his Ferrari on Monza as he was still fiddling around with the settings). And not just settings like "spoiler: low→medium→high" but things like tire-pressure, brake-balance and engine-mapping.
One of the races in GTR2 I'll remember for a long time was Lime Rock Park in a GT300 SuperGT Shiden, three hour race. I was taking turns with a buddy and as we changed positions, I've noticed that the handling was getting worse the less fuel we had in the car. In an attempt to fix the handling, we tried putting a softer compound on the front and lo and behold, it kind of worked. We had to pit earlier due to wear on the front and deal with some comedy-handling issues exiting the faster corners, but the fact that we could fix the handling to make us finish the race at all was something awesome in itself.

Granted, this is some unnecessary stuff that most people wouldn't want to use anyway, but if this would its way into a future game, I'd be more than happy to give it a try.



Kind of went a bit OT here, but I obviously like some good racing every weekend.
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[geinou]

Love your GTR2 story. During my "online career" in many Sim Racers I often experienced the same.

Yet, I don't think Codemasters' Formula One game will go into this direction. They said that they want normal and hardcore players to play their game. Therefore, they'll include an arcade-like mode and a simulation mode. The problem I have with that: They also call Colin McRae Dirt and Race Driver Grid simulation games. Sorry, but both games aren't simulations. They are good game though, but they are not simulation games like GTR or Grand Prix 3.

However, I still hope that they'll proof me wrong.

[Toptube]

[Gironika]

[geinou]

Oh, I remember this mod. Yeah, it wasn't perfect, but it was fun racing with the Champ Cars.

Did you try F1 Challenge 99-02 by EA? It wasn't perfect, but it was okay.

However, GP3 was the last great F1 simulation.

[Gironika]

[geinou]

I really hate when someone develops a racing game with changing weather effects, but when it starts raining during the race, nobody is coming to the pits, because the game isn't telling them to do. Seriously. They drive with slick tyres on a wet course. Why? Because they can, I suppose. Don't remember which game it was, but it was pissing me off.

My first racing simulation was Grand Prix 1, followed by the first NASCAR game by Papyrus.

Well, about my "online carerr". It isn't really exciting, but it was much, much fun the time I was doing it. I drove in Nascer 4 and Nascar 2003 online leagues, with the cup cars and some modifications, like the IndyCar mod, the TransAM mod, Truck mod, GTP (Group C cars, that was awesome) mod. Before that, I had many races with Grand Prix Legends, which is even today a really, really awesome game. Drifting with those old Formula One cars will probably never lose its fascination.

I raced some time in GTR/GTR2 leagues, had some occasional Life for Speed races. After it's relase I played a lot rFactor, had fun with the Formula One and GP2 mods, but never raced in an online league. Same goes for the first Race game. So yeah, basically, my last regular online league race I raced with GTR2.

It was a great time, but today I don't have the time to do this anymore. You know, you have to practice every day, improve setups and all that stuff. It's kinda like a MMO, it sucks so much time out of you. I do race occasinally, but not on a competiting level anymore. I might be a little burned out, lol. But it was a great time. If I had to go back, I would totally do it again.

With which simulations did you race over the years?

[Gironika]

best part of Split/Second: The HUD.

The driving is so-so, but man do I love the HUD.




Time to answer!

[RobotRocker]

I was hoping for Split/Second impressions because the concept is, quite frankly, brilliant but the previews were kinda worrying because they said the driving was not particularly amazing and there is a major issue with one car getting in the lead a lot as they can only get hit with route changer power plays if they are in the right position and there is no catch up. Giant Bomb had a great idea about sacrificing some power play for boost if the lead gets too much but its probably too late by now.
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[Schwere Viper]

S/S has a good look about it, but the demo was quite boring if you ask me. Driving physics weren't particularly interesting (drifting is nice though!) and the whole Power Play mechanic feels like it's mostly there to make you go WOW rather than help the gameplay, and WOW stuff in video games just doesn't last for very long, never mind forever. Blur is a far more entertaining game, albeit with less explosions. It's like a kart racer with exotic cars and a LAND ROVER~!



SHIT YEAH
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HeavyViper@Twitter ~~~ HeavyViper@Soundcloud
Blog: Machines That Sing

[Shiren the Launderer]

We need more games with ring roads

(click for big)

Genki has released tens of games on the strength of Tokyo expressways alone. Moscow's ring looks as good as anything in the various Shutoko Battle games. In a just world we'd get racing games with Claude Lelouch's C'était un Rendezvous route. :/

[RobotRocker]

You might get some mileage (HAH) out of Test Drive Unlimited 2 on that one. A good expressway game is very hard to keep interest in and very few cities have the visual backdrop of Tokyo to make them interesting.

Also, you can get a massive racing collection pack of Dirt 1 and 2, Fuel, Grid and TOCA TRD3 for the frankly bargainous price of $17.50 on Steam today. Might be a good idea to grab it while its there.
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[Teflon]

You know I'd never really thought about it but isn't Tokyo's highway system as represented by Genki ridiculously curvy? Wangan is straight but that's pretty much it.


There is actually a PC game based on a real-life Dutch highway called A2 Racer from the late nineties'. A series with a couple entries, even. It was developed by Davilex, which was surprising because their main line of business was accountancy software. I don't know whether it included the ring (A10). The real A2 feeds into the ring and I remember the game boasting of featuring the ENTIRE A2 (which is some 200 kilometers in length) so maybe?

Also I'd like to add how fantastic the story to the Shutokou Battle games is. In the future everybody gets around in little electric carts or automatic taxis or whatever and most of the roads are gone but the Tokyo highway system is kept around for the sole purpose of street racing in antique cars. I think it even went so far as to say the sporadic traffic you run into were computer-controlled dummies.

[Dracko]

Gran Turismo 5 is racing game's own Duke Nukem Forever.
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[Winona Ghost Ryder]

Does anyone have impressions of the Blur beta? I really liked the PGR games, but am pretty indifferent on this title.

[Schwere Viper]

I'd say Blur is definitely more of a kart racer than a game like PGR. Your victory is dependent on whether you can pick up and use power-ups effectively, rather than on your driving skill alone. Not to say that driving skill is completely irrelevant, since you'll need to be pretty good at slalom once the thunderbolt power-ups start flying.

Learning how to be versatile with items is key, it seemed. A neat feature of the shockwave power-up is it can be used to fend off projectiles that are about to hit you, as well as get other racers out of your comfort zone! The thunderbolt, on the other hand, can be the difference between an eight second lead and fourth place - if you use it in the right place, at the right time.
_________________
HeavyViper@Twitter ~~~ HeavyViper@Soundcloud
Blog: Machines That Sing

[Gironika]

I don't know whether I've already mentioned this before, but what would you guys think of a podcast dealing with racing games? We have a bunch of knowledgeable people here who have played a fair share of them racers, so why not feature them in the first place?




re Forza3:
The newest car-pack (bastards! stealing away my points by putting those awesome machines in there) has a bunch of cars I've never heard of, which is something cool enough to shell out the money. It's a bit of an asshole-move to release them after having paid for the full product but I'm not going to bother with DLC-discussions here.

However, the choice of cars is significant enough to be pointed out here:
Not only did turn10 try to come up with a fair share of weird/unknown real/concept-cars, they've surpassed GT (again) by finally breaking with tradition and putting some unknown manufacturers on the street (well, virtually at least).The Shelby (not related to the Shelby cars we know from Gone in 60 secs and so on) Aero SCC-something, for example, is also known for being the fastest production car, so no "surprise" for most of the crowd as well.
However, the concept cars aside, especially the Wiesmann Roadster is an odd choice, considering that it's a car and manufacturer that has no racing-pedigree to its name (like, for example, Spyker or Mosler do). More important though is the move by turn10, lets see whether this influences the lineup that GT5 will sport:

If it's the same batch of GT4 + the usual new supercar-fare only, they've failed in that regard even before they turned the first wheel.
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[Schwere Viper]

[geinou]

[geinou]

http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_f1_2010_dev_diary_3-15405_en.html

I really hope that his aren't just empty words.

[Gironika]

Okay, might drop that podcast idea in the subforum then.

And I really DO hope that this F1-game will be as good as they make it seem. Please,




Anyway!
Since the famous 24H race takes place this weekend, me and my brothers decided on a whim to make a FM3 Nürburgring FF-contender kind of like the famous Motoring Show TopGear would tackle this thing.
We started out with the following rules, trying to make cars that would fit if they were fielded for real ...

- 300 kWh max
- FF only
- it has to be a class B-car (<501 ranking)
- you have to fit the racing-spec front-wing and racing slicks.

Time allotted for painting the car was 30 minutes initially, though we stretched that to 1 hour 15 minutes.
The most exciting part was getting this car rolling, since the rules already suggested where this would go ... I've chosen the Alfa Mito, just because I had an idea of how I'd paint it. It turned out to be the most powerful (and handful to drive) entry out of three:

Fitted the V6 Brera engine + some upgrades, biggest rims (give you -5 or so, important to stay below the 501-points target) + widest rims on the front → managed to get 289 kWh out of this machine.
The downside? No rollcage, racing brakes, transmission, clutch and flywheel. Add a 66:44 weight distribution and you might see where this is going…
I fiddled with the setup (and rolled twice on the first few laps) and kind of got it sorted out enough to prevent me from crashing as soon as I turned a wheel.
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6.
As these pics suggest: fun times!

Best preparation for the race tomorrow then, can't wait to see people trying to go where we already went today.
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[Toptube]

I would enjoy participating in a racing game podcast, but it would literally have to wait about 2 months as I am days away from leaving the Air Force and will be living from a suitcase for about two months until finally settling at my new place in San Francisco.

[RobotRocker]

Activision forgoes poking the hornets nest with a stick, goes for javelin instead.



I chuckled though. Hopefully they will have a proper demo out soon as I wasnt convinced by the beta at all but I am more than willing to give it a second shot.
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[Toptube]

That modnation racers seems to be getting a lot of positive reactions, I might have to try the demo later today.

[geinou]

I did play the demo, and don't want to play it anymore. The controls were a little too tight, a little too squishy. Turning into a corner was easy, but doing a perfect turn not. Also, I didn't like the camera position, it's too close. Yet, I only drove one race, so I'll give it another chance.

Track building is great though.

[RobotRocker]

Home from University now so I got my X-Box again. Was going to get RDR but everywhere is sold out and it looks like everywhere is going to jack up their prices exorbitantly when it comes back in so between Blur and Split/Second now.

I liked the demo for S/S, the handling wasn't great but the power plays are so satisfying. Plus a lot of reviews mention that the later cars are much better and it becomes a lot more like Holywood Outrun (Which is damn good praise).

On the other hand, Blur has supposedly changed a lot from the Beta and from what I played at a demo pod, feels a lot more satisfying. Still a bit strange though, but I want to give it a good chance.

Thoughts?
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[Gironika]

Will there another demo of blur be out?

Since the beta failed to impress me (tv ad aside), I'm still waiting for a "final" impression while I'm hoping that the F1-game will be todays race as a videogame.
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[RobotRocker]

[geinou]

So, did anyone ever try iRacing? As far as I know, this is the most realistic racing simulation so far. It also has some cooperation with original racing series, like NASCAR or IndyCar, since they getting car information etc. On the page, under coming soon, is a Williams Formula One car listed, which would be really awesome. I'm kinda interested in iRacing, yet I don't want to do public races. You know, crashkids and all that bullshit. I really miss the time driving GTR, NASCAR 2003 Season (RIP Papyrus) or Formula One. Driving an IndyCar in iRacing looks and sounds terrific, yet I don't know any leagues where they do their races on normal times, so that I don't have to sacrifice watching real motorsports.

[Gironika]

the "online, subscription-based" part is what makes me stay away from iRacing. I want my games to be offline and always available, thus I have to pass here.


But then there's the prospect of having GTR3 out in 2011. And I can wait long enough, heh.
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[geinou]

Yeah, that's another point I don't like about iRacing. Yet, they get, like Blizzard, money every month, so that they can support the game on a much longer base like for example GTR. But I'm also excited about GTR3 (and rFactor 2). But damn, driving an original scanned IndyCar in an online league would be great.

[geinou]

You know what's sad? Going through the pain to re-install rFactor, just for the CART Factor Mod (which is great btw), just to realize, that my pedals of my Driving Force Pro aren't working anymore. The time I stopped racing, I had the 80% bug. Pressed the pedal to the metal, but only had 50-80% of acceleration. I know that there is a way to fix this, but seeing that the pedals won't do jack shit anymore.... well, I dunno, man. It's just sad.

[Chris B]

Speaking of steering wheels, I'd really like to get one to play some of the excellent arcade racers on my PS2. You know, stuff like Outrun 2 SP, Sega Rally 2006, Initial D, Virtua Racing, 18 Wheeler 2, the Battle Gears, etc..


The problem is just that all of these games are "GT Force compatible", which means that they are designed for the Logitech GT Force wheel, which has only been released in Japan. The shipping costs would be astronomical.





There is a similar looking wheel called "Wingman Formula Force GP" (colored red instead of blue) that has been releasaed in the US and Europe for PCs, but I think they must've changed something. I have one and it feels horrible, with a big deadzone and overly sensitive if you move out of it. No wonder they didn't mention that you can use it with a PS2. I could of course also try my luck with a Driving Force or Driving Force Pro, but these have severe compatibility issues with most of the games I mentioned.


So this got me thinking, maybe there's a steering wheel out there that doesn't use any fancy mode, but just maps its axes directly to the PS2's analog sticks and pressure sensitive buttons. It would be compatible with every game, even with ones that don't normally support wheels, for example Outrun 2006 or Crazy Taxi. Is there such a wondrous device?




And out of curiosity, I'd like to ask what you people use to race at home. Does it have to be a 900° wheel with clutch and H-shifter, or is 200° enough? I guess there are also many who prefer the size of a gamepad, coupled with the speed of a 90° analog stick. For all I know, there might even be people out there who still prefer to wrestle with their cars using digital controls. (I played Saturn Sega Rally yesterday for the first time in my life, and it was ace.)

[RobotRocker]

Looks like the Blur multiplayer beta has gone back up. Sales have been quite poor though, so I guess Acti are trying to make a big push to try get it going.
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[Toto]

ok that f1 2010 game looks like pretty much the best game i've ever seen. i used to be massive into f1, but my interest has waned. what do we know about this game, and do I necessarily have to have a wheel to enjoy it?

[Schwere Viper]

It seems I've gotten my ticket to the next beta session for NFS World! Kind of looking forward to seeing how a car MMO goes.
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HeavyViper@Twitter ~~~ HeavyViper@Soundcloud
Blog: Machines That Sing

[geinou]

@Chris B:

Uh, tough question. Just searched for the wheel on Google, found this Wikipedia entry, dunno if it helps for the GT Force wheel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GT_Force

For me, playing arcade racers like Outrun with a wheel will probably never work. Playing in an arcade, fine. The arcade versions are designed for the wheels in their cabinets. No problem at all. At home, I have the problem you mentioned: Most of the wheels aren't compatible with those games, so I'm playing them with the regular game pad. The same goes for newer "half simulation half arcade games", like Codemasters makes with Race Driver Grid oder Colin McRae Dirt. I cannot drive those cars with a wheel. It doesn't work for me. I can't really tell why, but it seems, for me, that I can't "feel" the car, in contrast to a real, 100% simulation like GTR2, where you need a wheel to be competitive, or to handle the vehicles without using any driving aids. Maybe that's why, unfortunately, I cannot say much on that topic, because I'm using wheels only for 100% simulations on the PC. Or better said: I used them, because you know, didn't drive GTR and co for some time now (and my pedals aren't working anymore, damn...).

About your second question: My Driving Force Pro can do the 200° and 900° stuff, but I only use the 200° mode. I know some people who swear that using the 900° mode is better, but for me, the handling was much smoother when using only the 200° mode. Also, my DFP has no clutch, but it has F1 paddle shifters and a sequential shifter. I try to play my sims as realistic as possible, so while driving NASCAR in an oval, I only used the sequential shifter, because it was the most realistic thing I could do with my wheel. Other drivers in my league used their paddle shifters, because... I really don't know. Maybe they were lazy, maybe they got scared taking one hand away from the wheel (pussys). On a road track I used the paddle shifters too, since you are a little bit faster with them. That's why I used them in other simulations, like Race, like GTR, like Formula One in rFactor as well. I never got the chance to drive ChampCar or IndyCar in a league (well, now the "modern" IndyCar's are using paddle shifters too...), but I would have used the sequential shifter with those cars, since I like watching on-board videos and seeing how the drivers must work in their cars. It looks awesome (lol). And you know, driving a simulation, you want the feeling as realistic as possible.

Look, for example this onboard from Juan Pably Montoya during the 99' CART race at Long Beach. Look at this right hand, it's great:



When I was not using the sequential shifter, I used it for like changing the ratio of my breaks, like modern Formula One drives do. It's actually hard work, because you have to concentrate on so many things while driving, but it's fun as hell. I really miss those times. I want them back. (sad smiley)

[geinou]

[Gironika]

Seconding everything geinou said about arcade-games and wheels. You can try, but it probably won't work.