[Lestrade]

I have a copy of Ridge Racer 6 for my Xbox 360 that I haven't played in several months. Every so often I get the "Ridge Racer itch," and can't wait to get home so I can experience that familiar feeling of whipping around a corner at high speed, neck-and-neck with a computer-controlled competitor.

To me, Ridge Racer is all about the now-oft-quoted "30 seconds of fun"—the game is, essentially, that moment between turning into a high-speed drift and overtaking your AI opponent at the last second because of this bout of driving prowess. When I think of playing Ridge Racer, this is what I have in mind. When I daydream about playing Ridge Racer, this is what I want to be doing.

But between me and this moment—the one I've been thinking about all day at work, on a whim—are many obstacles. Loading times, menu screens, myriad options, progress summaries; all these keep me from getting to the moment I want to play.

I'm hoping that downloadable games will change all this.

Right now, Xbox Live Arcade is a haven for ports and updated classics, with few original games slipping through. There are rumblings (and by consensus I suppose we'll all find out at GDC) that Sony is taking a slightly more aggressive approach to downloadable content; they don't just want to make it a second stage item, they want it to be an integral part of the core experience. Sony has, by accounts, key developers working on important titles—some a bit big, some more modest—for the Playstation Network. These developers aren't being treated as second-class teams, nor are they perceived as copping out of the main game. No, it seems that high-def and high-speed are going to be trotting hand-in-hand down a beach sometime soon.

And why shouldn't they? Microsoft in particular should be leading this charge—and some would argue that with XNA, they are. But both publishers and developers need to be made to understand one simple thing: we now effectively have two distribution methods, both of which are perfectly valid.

So, back to Ridge Racer. That Ridge Racer experience is a very boiled-down, core thing, as I've mentioned. I don't see the value in having a full-price disc and case sitting around to accommodate an experience that may only last me 30 minutes at a time. I don't see the need for a "world explorer." Just as I am only too thrilled to have Ultimate Mortal Kombat sitting on my Xbox 360's hard drive, ready for that moment I need to scratch the "freeze a poor sap and bust his icy balls over my shoulders while a disembodied voice congratulates me" itch, I feel that a game like Ridge Racer—an arcade game, remember—only needs to provide me with a beautiful opening cinematic (starring a lovingly rendered Reiko Nagase and, yes, a few cars, I suppose), a handful of vehicles to choose from, and a good selection of tracks on which to race to be a genuinely compelling piece of video game content.

To some people, this might be heresy. But I have this odd feeling that if there was a Ridge Racer equivalent of Gran Turismo HD for the Xbox 360, I wouldn't even touch a full Ridge Racer release. But you know what? I would probably pay five dollars for it.

Now, I'm not talking about demos here. What I'm talking about is a fully-functional game that happens to use a download service as a valid reason not to stuff it with superfluous extras. This hypothetical XBLA Ridge Racer would have, in my mind, a grand prix mode (say, races across eight tracks randomly chosen from a palette of 12 or so), an online versus mode, and a time trial mode. I mean, it's an arcade racing game—what more do you need? Its menus would be beautiful and lean, high-res and minimalist. There would be an image of Reiko Nagase right there on the title screen, the one that begs you to press Start, as if you hadn't thought of it before.

In this new, download-friendly world, developers would rethink the games they're making and the delivery methods they've been using all this time. They would think, "Shit, if we're not going to bother putting anything extra in Virtua Fighter 5, why not just make it a download?" They would stop trying to cram games that take those beautiful 30 seconds and lavish you with them for a half-hour at a time, and they would release them as the impulsive, transient experiences they are.

And they wouldn't have to feel guilty about it.
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Illustration Portfolio | The Gamer's Quarter

[dementia]

I think PSN is heading that way what with the bare-bones Tekken DR and GTHD.

[gooktime]

That was a good read and I like the cut of your jib.

I might get ASSAULTED for saying this, but I kinda liked the 'microtransaction' model used for Lumines Live. You could just buy the minimal amount of content if you can't be bothered with VS CPU and so forth, or buy the whole thing for still only a small cost.

[Mikey]

[Felix]

everybody loves unreal 3 = nothing but good news for this

[rye]

[firenze]

[Ebrey]

Firenze your post is puzzling. One moment you're talking about how much you like extra modes, then you're praising simple pick up and play experiences.

I agree with Lestrade 100%. It'd make more sense to pay $10 or $20 for arcade-style games than buy them bundled with another arcade game or saddled with extra crap. The problem is that most of the extra crap requires almost no effort for the developers to add in, so if they can sell the game for twice as much with the extras they'll want to do it.

[gooktime]

[Maztorre]

I pretty much agree with Lestrade, here. One could sell a barebones arcade racer or fighting game for $5-10 and perhaps go the Lumines route of selling additional content to those that want it. For example, the PS3 version of Virtua Fighter 5 has a fairly heavily cut down training mode compared to that of VF4 Evolution on PS2, but if player demand could directly fund additional modes the players want, people would go for it. AM2 could sell a barebones VF5 for $10-15 (Arcade, VS, Survival, Training) and have the premium content (Quest mode, VF.TV, AI Training) as a downloadable for fans for another $10-15. I think people would be more inclined to a few little amounts over time than be confronted with $60 price tags.

[Mikey]

I think what Firenze is trying to say (correct me if I'm misinterpreting, Firenze) is that pick-up-and-play games shouldn't be considered a seperate category of game, or be looked at as less valuable. That is, it's not fair to a game like Virtua Fighter or Ridge Racer to boil it down and slap a budget price on it simply because you can pick up the game and play it and then leave it behind again. That those games are more than just the thrill of the powerslide or the K.O.


Abruptly switching back to Lumines Live:

Lumines Live was probably really cheap to develop. The existing framework was already there from the original. The original sold pretty well so they had likely already earned back all development costs on that. So they were able to release it in a bite-sized, cheap chunk that delivered the core gameplay and little else. (Now I will admit that I think the amount of skins provided in that core pack is insultingly small, but that's another post). With what I assume is very little effort and cost, they were able to reach an audience they hadn't earlier (non-PSP owners) and generate a little extra profit. To those developers I say 'bravo'. They didn't exactly nail the landing, so to speak, but in general they made a good show of it.

[SuperWes]

[Toups]

[Gironika]

[SuperWes]

[aerisdead]

[Shapermc]

[firenze]

[firenze]

[Maztorre]

[Maztorre]

[JamesE]

Steam is bad, bloated, crashy shite

[Maztorre]

[JamesE]

Oh fuck off

Steam is a stupid, unecessary program. It exists only as a draconian anti-piracy measure.

[Maztorre]

[SuperWes]

[firenze]

[Maztorre]

firenze, these games are declining in sales year-on-year. Ridge Racer used to be a high water mark for not just driving games, but the industry in general. If your $60 game was selling horribly then that means that a) people weren't acknowledging its existence or b) nobody who really matters thought it was worth $60. Most people here will agree with you that yes, VF5 and the Ridge Racer games are high quality products that are more finely tuned than most of their peers, but that doesn't matter. What matters that your game is being put under the noses of as many people as possible. If that means demos, price slashing or moving it to prominence as a Live Arcade game, then they should go for it. Every one who would have bought Ridge Racer was a guaranteed customer anyway, and a cut-price edition coupled with a free demo to get the ball rolling would be far more effective in bringing in outsiders, than, say, taking out a print ad in EDGE. Everyone who reads EDGE has made their mind up about Ridge Racer probably a decade ago!

In conclusion: people here are not demeaning your hobby or anything, but the games industry is pretty fickle in terms of market trends and where all the real money goes. Arcade racers and fighters are not what they were. You cannot sell a console purely on the strength of those games anymore. The companies involved need to attempt to grow their market, or else they'll find their software increasingly marginalised into what the shmup scene is now. By that point they won't even be able to put money into developing a full-price game even if they wanted to.

[klikbeep]

For a while, I was actually thinking that the downloadable market might be the injection point for the cure. Fans of action titles would be able to demonstrate to a jaded public that technology flogging and EpicNess aren't the only ways to make a game fun and attractive. Developers of shrinking genres (adventures, shooters) could get a nod. Weird one-offs (visual novels, rhythm, Sexy Beach) could give the market a feel-up without necessarily having to call the next day. And so on.

Except I kinda realized that The Man has got this locked up, too . . . the market's limited by the console bases of the respective systems, which means it's going to be really really hard to have anything catch like wildfire. Format competition is a nightmare for buyers, and the gaming industry has been an endless parade of them. I guess that PC downloads could provide a large enough user base to give small games a chance, except that the vast amount of shareware development means that it's hard to filter and promote your small game over another small game . . . maybe in that sense, as a spotlight, Steam makes some kind of sense. Then again, that might just be a case of some games shouting louder than others.

I keep feeling like there needs to be a universal format for this stuff: getting a game should be like getting a DVD or a CD. Those formats are shifty enough as it is.

Maybe what we need is a new stage for games. New expectations. Like, you go to the Game Center, and you put down your $20, and you get a 5-hour gaming experience. I guess that's another topic, though.

I guess I'm just kind of saying that I don't think this is going to be the blessing that it could be . . . whatever additional innovation and flexibility that downloading affords is just going to get scooped up with the rest of the mess.

Oh -- I kinda disagree on reducing the games to their basic points. Maybe other people don't care, but that's what Saint's Row did, and it was terrible. Smacking zombies with no context is basically the game from Elephant -- white sand and dying, but nothing to hang it on.

[gooktime]

[Talbain]

There are kind of two schools of thought on this kind of thing.

The first is the package deal, where you get the ZOMG HUGE DOWNLOAD. The other is a smaller deal, usually cheaper, where you get small "instances" of a game.

A third might be something like Fly for Fun or Gunbound, where the game's based, to some extent, on a point biased system. However, these two both fit into the above two categories, just that you can buy into them more or less.

Personally, I like all three systems, as they're both useful for different types of games. For games like Civilization IV, I'd kind of expect a massive download. For something like a Half-Life expansion... eh, not so much. For games like Lumines, about the only thing I'd realistically expect might be new play modes or different music; somewhat more limited, but still potentially interesting.

I don't think any one of these systems is really better than another, I personally think that the application of each is just rather poor, because the industry has been VERY SLOW to get the idea that downloadable content can make money (and by VERY SLOW, I'm talking fucking tree amber).

As someone previously said, Valve really has done it the best of those that I've seen. Sure, it's basically like putting spyware on your computer, but hey, it's not disgustingly malicious, fairly easy to turn off (I don't like the fact that it installs to the startup folder, and I don't recall it giving you an option to not do so), and provides you with lots of opportunities to help keep Valve happy by giving them your hard-earned buck.

I certainly think a more regular format for downloads could be reached, but regularity comes with cornering a market, and no one has been able to do that for the games industry.
_________________

[option]

Though Firenze might be taking it a little personal I agree with his point about not treating the games like 2nd rate just because of more simplistic gameplay.
I dont think a cost is the issue for me at all when it comes to the games I love. I bought Ikaruga at full price when it came out on the cube and never thought once that it should be a bargain download because the gameplay isnt as bloated as say... Metal Gear Solid 3.
The real plus side of downloadable games is that it gets rid of having to load up the disc...but really isnt that a good thing for any game?

[Lestrade]

I didn't even realize anyone had read this.

I must say, I'm surprised at some of the reaction to my thoughts. I don't mean to imply that a game like Virtua Fighter is a lesser experience because it doesn't say "90 hour quest!" on the box. Rather, as others have clarified, I feel that some games—arcade-style games—are better distributed as a download and are kept simple.

As it's been said, so many developers feel the need to cram a game with tonnes and tonnes of extra things, and make you jump through hoops to unlock "bonus content" to justify the games' retail price. So why not side-step all that and offer the core game, minus the extras added for the sake of value-perception, for download at a reduced cost?

I am often more fond of arcade-style games than huge epics, as I have a hard time putting up with all the filler content used to, say, pad an RPG to ungodly lengths. So I'm not belittling the pick-up-and-play experience. And I do of course realize that some people do enjoy the large amount of content and modes offered by, say, Gran Turismo. And to these folks, a $60 disc that they can sink their teeth into is grand.

But as I mentioned, I wish there was a choice. Keep in mind that I am the kind of person who does not keep superfluous things. If I know I will never watch a particular movie, or play a particular game, ever again, I will get rid of it. I don't buy and buy and buy and maybe enjoy 30% of what I actually purchase, and just let the rest sit there. No, if I feel like I'm never going to get into a game past a certain point, and have no reasonable expectation of wanting to pick it up again in the future, I trade it in. I don't stockpile or keep clutter.

So, with that in mind, it can be better understood, I think, why I would want to have "core" versions of some games in downloadable form, if I am never going to want to, say, unlock every license in a racing game or somesuch. Demos do, to an extent, satisfy this, but sometimes I'd like to, you know, pay a developer for their time without having the feeling that I've got an "unfinished" game sitting there near my system, mocking me.

Anyway, there is a very odd, unnecessary air of vitriol in this thread.
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Illustration Portfolio | The Gamer's Quarter

[gooktime]

[firenze]

[Maztorre]

[JamesE]

[Maztorre]

there are 139,504 players having good luck with it too at the moment

[JamesE]

And once in a blue moon, I'm one of them.

This still doesn't excuse it being unstable and poorly thought out, and it doesn't explain why you're trying to cover for it. It just isn't needed.

[JamesE]

(Steam as a persistent tray item, I mean)

Just let me buy your games then get the fuck off of my runtime, assholes