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Toptube
Anti-cabbage Party Candidate
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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 Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:16 pm |
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news to me:
MGS: Rising is no longer a 360 exclusive. Now its on 360, PS3 and PC?! |
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geinou
Joined: 07 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:40 pm |
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| It never was a 360 exclusive. Since the first announcement it was planned fpr 360, PS3 and PC, Sony just didn't make a big deal out of it at E3 2009, since they had Peace Walker. |
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Toptube
Anti-cabbage Party Candidate
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:17 pm |
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| I guess I assumed it was exclusive because all that was said was MGS FOR MICROSOFT |
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v84j3gs2uc7ns4
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:50 pm |
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BotageL
pretty anime princess
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: *fidget*
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:52 pm |
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Well, it is equivalent to piracy, in that the developer and publisher get no funds from it.
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geinou
Joined: 07 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:53 pm |
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Yea, it really was only Microsoft making a big deal about the game, maybe because they put some dollars on Konami's table.
Now I remember the terrible MGS2: Substance version on the original Xbox. Holy cow, that one had some bad slowdowns. |
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Toptube
Anti-cabbage Party Candidate
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:54 pm |
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| yeah and the xbox had less buttons so DUMB. |
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Loki Laufeyson
fps fragmaster
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Beneath the Mushroom Kingdom
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Sniper Honeyviper
Joined: 30 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:17 am |
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| geinou wrote: |
| Now I remember the terrible MGS2: Substance version on the original Xbox. Holy cow, that one had some bad slowdowns. |
It was based off the PC version (which meant no pressure sensitivity, even though the controllers supported it) and had some serious issues, yeah. Not the least of which was having to toggle first-person view with a face button!
As far as I know, Rising is being developed for PC and then ported to consoles, much like what Capcom does for everything now. I don't think any of the versions will turn out much different than the others. |
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RobotRocker
C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Location: Death Egg Zone
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:53 am |
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Hey, remember when PA used to look out for hobbyists by supporting stuff like Fairplay and actually being critical when the industry was dicking people over? Seems a long time ago, doesn't it.
Way to descend to the same level as Buckley, guys. |
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Lance Boyle
banned
Joined: 24 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:59 am |
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| Quote: |
| As far as I know, Rising is being developed for PC and then ported to consoles, much like what Capcom does for everything now. |
Whoa.
Apparently a lot has changed since that shitty, godawful port of Resident Evil 4.
IIRC you had to install a fanmade patch to get mouse support in the game. |
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ionustron
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:56 am |
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| hahahahahahaha |
After reading that... did they just paraglide over the striped hammerhead?
How much of that seventy dollars goes into the inane marketing and PR for said game, ohhoho, so that the consumer can make an informed decision on spending their seventy dollars!? It certainly isn't going to direct hardware costs.
We absolutely should get rid of the used games market, it would be awesome! Look at how Japan does it, and their industry is on life support! Let's fuck over the regions still on 56k connections! Best of all, we'll have Wagon Sales!! |
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Rud31
forum ruler of Iraq
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: SanAnTex
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:19 am |
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| BotageL wrote: |
| Well, it is equivalent to piracy, in that the developer and publisher get no funds from it. |
I agree with this idea, and in response at least buying used supports the economy and the society around you.
Not the issue, but something I've thought about.
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Talbain
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:03 am |
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Buying something used generally implies that the product itself might have some form of wear that makes it less valuable, but we do know that many of these things, sold as "used" are really just minor things like opening the product (not to mention that the value of any software plummets after a certain point, short of proprietary restrictions to protect it). Somehow I think that the rub starts there, where the retailer concerns themselves with sales in the short-term rather than long-term developer support. There's also a problem with terminology, since a lot of the "used" videogames can be near-mint (or even mint, in the case of Gamestop, with just the plastic wrapping undone) and re-sold as a basically defect free product, but in this case, the developer won't see any money.
On a different, but important note, why are we still using consoles at this point? Aren't they mostly glorified PCs anyway? We need to move on to Steam. Tired of spending 400 bucks every few years so I can be with the hipsters playing Demon's Souls (Atlus, why do you hurt so good?)
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idle
QUAD DAMAGE!!!
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:16 am |
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I'd rather fork out $300 every few years than have to deal with upgrading my video cards/installing/working out compatibility issues/etc whenever I want to play a game.
It's a matter of convenience. |
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Lick Meth
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: A constant state of flux
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:18 am |
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| PC gaming is a turn-off due to the massive initial outlay and complete lack of information regarding hardware and that sort of thing. Whereas, if you buy a PS2 in 2001 or 2003 it'll definitely play games (with no drop in quality or graphics between machines) made for it in 2006. |
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Intentionally Wrong
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:23 am |
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Also consider my attempt to change the default language and regional settings for non-Unicode programs broke my install of Windows XP last week, and two weeks before that I stupidly let rootkits and other malware onto my system. Sure, the 360 can RROD, but that's fiddlesticks compared to the myriad ways you can fuck up a PC if you stray into areas you shouldn't be in.
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:36 am |
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| hahahahahahaha |
I think they're more trying to defend the publisher's right to offer a $10 pass as a way to guarantee income on a game's sale. They're not saying buying and selling used is bad, only that the publisher has no reason to want your business as a used game buyer.
-Wes
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Teflon
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:51 pm |
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| At no point does it occur to these people that a lot of players simply don't feel their games are worth $60. Try not making boring bullshit kthx. |
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v84j3gs2uc7ns4
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:41 pm |
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Loki Laufeyson
fps fragmaster
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Beneath the Mushroom Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:02 pm |
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if budgets went down, there'd be more creativity, and prices of new gameds could go down. the only people who'd be worse off would be publishers, and fuck dose mooks
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Talbain
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:42 pm |
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| idle wrote: |
I'd rather fork out $300 every few years than have to deal with upgrading my video cards/installing/working out compatibility issues/etc whenever I want to play a game.
It's a matter of convenience. |
See, this doesn't really ring as a valid excuse, it just sounds like laziness. I can understand that people have certain feelings towards machines primarily considered for work, but the "it's too hard" excuse seems like... well, an excuse. If we're perfectly willing to jump the initial hurdle of figuring out how to configure consoles as well (and you have to admit, they've become much more complicated than they once were), then I don't see that correlation.
Personally I think it's the fact that consoles are brought into the living room that actually sells them.
@Lick Meth: Yeah, standardization will help (Intel's becoming big on this), but the initial hurdles don't really seem like something that's impossibly prohibitive, whereas I don't foresee the "proprietary box" model that Nintendo made so popular as something that will continue to garner success. Apple's been successful with the same model in their phones for a long time, but the Android's making quite a few waves because of the more open code and is attracting developers as a result (though not Cave, which makes me sad). This also, in a way, has to do with the relative security of information on something like an X-Box 360 or PS3 versus something on a computer (in that you can make information more or less secure, while information on consoles is rather easy to access).
What would be really interesting is if we start seeing companies like Intel and TV companies pairing together to bring games into the living room via a computer. I think this is where PCs could see the greatest success in spaces that aren't Korea/China (Japan... well, I guess they would always use consoles until they're monetarily forced out).
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Last edited by Talbain on Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Loki Laufeyson
fps fragmaster
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Beneath the Mushroom Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:51 pm |
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no, really, people just like the fact that when they buy a console game, they will definately be able to play it. with pc games, you have to have the right processer, graphics card, ram, direct x and probably some other stuff. it's a massive pain.
in the 80s and early 90s when computers like the amiga were super-popular they had some variation, but not much more than consoles.
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Swimmy
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:53 pm |
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Why is laziness an invalid excuse?
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Talbain
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:57 pm |
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| Loki Laufeyson wrote: |
no, really, people just like the fact that when they buy a console game, they will definately be able to play it. with pc games, you have to have the right processer, graphics card, ram, direct x and probably some other stuff. it's a massive pain.
in the 80s and early 90s when computers like the amiga were super-popular they had some variation, but not much more than consoles. |
I dunno, I just don't really see this. I've never had these kinds of problems, excepting that I've screwed stuff up myself sometimes. But I don't blame the PC for my mistakes. I've heard that there's some sort of streaming game service that's coming out for PCs which streams a game from a server elsewhere and you play it (essentially using their server to run graphics and what-not). Not sure exactly how it works, but I think that this could potentially remove a lot of these hurdles as well (if it works).
| Swimmy wrote: |
| Why is laziness an invalid excuse? |
I hate to say it, but is laziness ever a valid excuse?
I think it mostly relates to responsibility. We're consumers of this medium, and to not analyze whether or not the medium is useful is lazy. Sort of like the parent who lets TV raise their child is irresponsible, I see it as irresponsible to simply accept the medium without criticism.
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LandRoverAttack
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Location: sagamihara, kanagawa
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:22 pm |
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Consoles are always going to be cheaper than a gaming PC, too. The console manufacturers can afford to sell their system at a loss (and at a large one) and always benefit from bringing the price down because they make their money back from licensing game sales. PC manufacturers have no such system and make all their money selling PCs and PC components at a profit.
And people are increasingly moving away from desktop PCs, so it's not as simple as dropping a nice video card in your family computer for a lot of people. Laptops just aren't as modular as desktops.
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Talbain
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:32 pm |
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I suppose.
I think there are other extant factors though. The fact that most Americans don't use videogames as a forum for play but instead as closed-off experiences has had a lot of impact (and the advent of online play makes that even more true). The need to replace motherboards is problematic as well, due to socket updates for new processors. The move away from desktop PCs is definitely a big issue, in my mind it might be the biggest issue, as laptops now cover 20% of the market in America. Though I would wonder if there's any possibility of changing a laptop's scalability, since that seems to be a choice perpetuated by manufacturers.
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Swimmy
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:35 pm |
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| Talbain wrote: |
| Swimmy wrote: |
| Why is laziness an invalid excuse? |
I hate to say it, but is laziness ever a valid excuse? |
Yes.
For instance,do you think people shouldn't be allowed to use remote controls, because laziness isn't a valid excuse for not using the buttons on the TV? "Making things easier" and "satisfying our laziness" are basically synonyms--it's the purpose of almost all of our technology. Price sensitivity for dealing with frustration is a personal preference, no more valid or invalid than prefering oranges to apples.
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:13 pm |
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Man, nobody get into the used games = piracy thing until we dig up that thread where me and Broco figured the whole thing out.
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Toptube
Anti-cabbage Party Candidate
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:15 pm |
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| Talbain wrote: |
| Loki Laufeyson wrote: |
no, really, people just like the fact that when they buy a console game, they will definately be able to play it. with pc games, you have to have the right processer, graphics card, ram, direct x and probably some other stuff. it's a massive pain.
in the 80s and early 90s when computers like the amiga were super-popular they had some variation, but not much more than consoles. |
I dunno, I just don't really see this. I've never had these kinds of problems, excepting that I've screwed stuff up myself sometimes. But I don't blame the PC for my mistakes. |
some major problems with pc gaming that don't get talked about as much is A. the general markup on hardware, B. B&M markup on hardware, C.the problems with bigbox vendors, and D. how damn flooded the market is.
A. Markup on hardware is insane. When a new product line releases, the stuff that a person should actually want and that also might have some longevity is prohibitively expensive. Being current in PC hardware is a special club reserved only for those who have buckets of money. and its all for stuff that is marked waaaay up from what it actually costs to make.
Sure, you can put together a game-able computer right now for $600 or whatever, but its with tech that either literally debuted 2 or 3 years ago or is a current budget line that performs about the same as the former.
B. sure, you can put together a gaming computer for fairly cheap----if you buy it all online. B&M markup for computer hardware is insane. I was just at Best Buy (one of the few places that you can actually buy computer hardware off the shelf) where they had $130 pricetags on videocards that can be bought online for $70. Cards that aren't even for gaming, really. Medium end gaming cards that could be got online for $130 - $180 were over $200, etc.
C. Gaming hardware at bigbox vendors is often sectioned off in a "special" line of products where the markup is again, huge or you are forced to buy ALL of the good shit in one go, so its still ridiculous. and its only when you hit these "special" lines do you start getting "off the shelf" parts that actually have extra ports and some expandability. One of the biggest problems with big box vendors are the power supplies. They often spec your power supply to specifically service the hardware that it shipped with. So later if you want to toss in a powerhungry videocard, you may not be able to without upgrading the power supply, which MAY NOT FIT INTO THEIR FUCKING PROPRIETARY CASE. There also MAY NOT EVEN BE A PORT TO PUT THE VIDEOCARD INTO. I saw DELLS as recently as 5 months ago that had proprietary SATA connections on them. WHAT THE FUCK.
D. The PC hardware market is flooded as fuck. The new shit comes out and is expensive as hell, so the old shit stays around, viable, for way longer than it should be. Then finally a couple months later a "budget" product will be released that is based on the new stuff and put into a more realistic price bracket, but that old shit is STILL AVAILABLE and still viable. Then by the time the old shit finally mostly dissappears NEW SHIT IS COMING OUT.
Then you get into the specific product lines which usually start out fairly clear cut, 3 or 4 models aimed at very specific performance levels and price points. But there is still overlap with the OLD SHIT because oh yeah, the real progress is only made in the upper two tiers. Then after a few months a bunch of extra models are released that are slightly better or slightly worse than existing models and are often seperated by a couple handfulls of dollars.
With videocards specifically, the PR on the box/web page for every single one of them is delivers stunning graphics and cutting edge effects straight to your monitor. acclerate all of your favorite games at blistering speeds. HOW THE FUCK DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT TO BUY?
occasionally there are some good deals and values to be had, but they literally last about 1 month and again, are usually with stuff that is "old". Its very seldom that anything current actually goes for seriously competitive prices, unless its late in the cycle or that particular side fucked up their last product line and need to make a "come back".
PC gaming as a whole needs to figure out a way to simplify the hardware market so that its a lot more clearcut on what you should buy for what you want to do and they need to eliminate old products sooner. Make less of them or just make it dissappear. As it is now, at any give moment if I want to know what hardware should be bought, I have to sift through tons of overlap, crawl through forums, read piles of reviews, and then stare at price lists before I can be sure of what to buy.
They also need to do a better job of advertising the benefits over console gaming. Especially nowadays when the benefits are much less clear (because consoles are the development focus). True 1080p alone could be a decent marketing campaign, if there was enough streamlining done so that after people got reeled in by the marketing---they could actually confidently buy something that lives up to it.
*they also need to make computers play better with HDTVs and Hometheater setups. Sound over HDMI on a PC, I actually am not even sure if a product exists for that. There probably is, but its not at all common and most probably not cheap. HDMI video on videocards is also just a converted DVI signal. It works pretty well, but not always great. Some TVs don't like it as much as others and you almost always have to know where in the drivers settings to fiddle and get the damn thing to fill your screen properly. The latest drivers from ATI cause video playback on my HDTV to have horizontal tearing in the middle of the screen with just about everything. HDMI has standards in place, my videocard should account for them.
Last edited by Toptube on Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:33 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Dracko
a sapphist fool
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:27 pm |
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oxfam has been indulging in piracy all this time????
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Jam
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:28 pm |
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| Toptube wrote: |
| With videocards specifically, the PR on the box/web page for every single one of them is delivers stunning graphics and cutting edge effects straight to your monitor. acclerate all of your favorite games at blistering speeds. HOW THE FUCK DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT TO BUY? |
If anyone here has this problem I like to start at www.passmark.com (go to their benchmark section) for a rough guess. It's really only a relative measure, but at least you know when something like a Radeon 5870 goes on a great sale it's actually not as powerful as that 5770 you've had your eye on.
As for motherboards, fuck them. A giant pain in my side trying to get this computer together.
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Last edited by Jam on Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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oh my god immaculate
banned
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:28 pm |
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the hardware market ruined PC gaming. when publishers are releasing big name games that don't run properly because the game is "futureproofed" then the writing is on the wall.
I never really understood the hardware side of videogames. is it really worth paying 3000 dollars for a computer or 2000 dollars for some TV just to make Space Fight in Space 3D Part 4 look a little bit sharper |
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:35 pm |
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| oh my god immaculate wrote: |
| I never really understood the hardware side of videogames. is it really worth paying 3000 dollars for a computer or 2000 dollars for some TV just to make Space Fight in Space 3D Part 4 look a little bit sharper |
The answer is, people in the first world are rich, across the board and generally speaking. They have tons of discretionary income. So sure why not pay $2000 to watch Blu-rays in their blistering definition or whatever.
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oh my god immaculate
banned
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:39 pm |
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| I have a 15gb mkv of Straight Up: Batman 2 |
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Jam
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:50 pm |
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| CubaLibre wrote: |
| oh my god immaculate wrote: |
| I never really understood the hardware side of videogames. is it really worth paying 3000 dollars for a computer or 2000 dollars for some TV just to make Space Fight in Space 3D Part 4 look a little bit sharper |
The answer is, people in the first world are rich, across the board and generally speaking. They have tons of discretionary income. So sure why not pay $2000 to watch Blu-rays in their blistering definition or whatever. |
Ok, paying $2000 for a computer is quite likely pure excess for most users. Spending somewhere between $1000-$1500 for a really good rig isn't completely insane though, as for that money you can probably get 5+ years of useful life on it for most applications.
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Loki Laufeyson
fps fragmaster
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Beneath the Mushroom Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:20 pm |
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assuming that is a price for a pc for playing videogames (since you wouldn't need to spend anywhere near that much other wise), compare that to a console that will have a life of up to 7-8 years at launch, for a lot less
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Teflon
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:35 pm |
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Yeah but its useful life as a serious gaming machine will be three years at maximum. 2005's greatest GPU wouldn't even be that terrible today (a 7900 or X1800XT) but man you'd have a Pentium goddamn four in there or an Athlon 64x2 3200 if you were really lucky. Either of those would get its ass kicked by the original Left 4 Dead.
Edit: personally even though I'm current hardware-wise I don't enjoy gaming behind a desk much. It feels like work. I've got my TV hooked up but most games are super-awkward about joypads so all I end up doing is watching videos and playing MAME via a stick-controlled frontend. |
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idle
QUAD DAMAGE!!!
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:04 pm |
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| Talbain wrote: |
| idle wrote: |
I'd rather fork out $300 every few years than have to deal with upgrading my video cards/installing/working out compatibility issues/etc whenever I want to play a game.
It's a matter of convenience. |
See, this doesn't really ring as a valid excuse, it just sounds like laziness. I can understand that people have certain feelings towards machines primarily considered for work, but the "it's too hard" excuse seems like... well, an excuse. If we're perfectly willing to jump the initial hurdle of figuring out how to configure consoles as well (and you have to admit, they've become much more complicated than they once were), then I don't see that correlation. |
What? No, consoles haven't become that much more complicated.
Even if they have, they don't require much much maintenance, if any, beyond the initial setup. If I buy a new game for my PS3, all I have to do is pop it into the system and I can start playing it as soon as it downloads any necessary patches. I don't have to worry about system requirements or installing and configuring it like I would with a PC game.
To continue this page's Penny Arcade theme:
| Quote: |
It's the best, period. And you pay for it. Age of Conan and Mass Effect both have massive review caveats about needing substantial horsepower, but let's be serious: you always need more machine. Every review could include such language - it's always better to have more. No argument enrages the PC stalwart like those relating to the cost of their preferred platform. This is a real concern, and the cost is twofold, but if you bring it up they start to bang trash can lids together. Upon the release of Crysis, it was not uncommon to find these progressively insular sects claiming you could build an entire computer for five hundred dollars that would run the game at top speed. It wasn't true, of course. It was like some magic feather they could hold.
As an adult of stable (if bizarre) employment, though, I have money to spend on things that I enjoy. What I don't have any of is time to resolve ultra-rare DVI incompatibilities with SLI setups where the motherboard is an nForce etcetera. I maintain this hardware because I need to know what's coming - because I want access to a global community of independents, auteurs, and freaks who are this medium's genetic future. I'll never be able to divest myself of the intense nostalgia I have for this platform. I can't be without it. But if a person wants to play videogames in their spare time and not perform mechanical surgery on their equipment, that doesn't make them an idiot. It makes them a pragmatist. |
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Sketch
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:22 pm |
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| I wish consoles would regress from their near PC state to what they were last generation. Fuck having to connect to the net and download massive patches before even getting to play the game. It was all so much simpler with the PS2. |
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Broco
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Headquarters
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:24 pm |
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I don't know, I find my PS3 can be pretty obnoxious and has definitely inherited some of the bad aspects of PCs. I don't use it that much, so I get hit by update nonsense disproportionately often when I do turn it on. If it has a system update, it refuses to let me play until it's downloaded and installed (and they're huge). When I download a game from their store, half the time it needs some more updates to get downloaded when I start the game instead of just packing them into the initial download. Its controllers won't recharge on anything except a turned-on PS3. To play Scott Pilgrim in local co-op, I was forced to dig into the PS3 User menu to create new "profiles" for some reason.
On my PC with Steam at least, it downloads and installs patches in the background while I'm using my computer for other things, and doesn't force me to wait for them at the exact moment when I want to play the game. And, I haven't had any problems with drivers and whatnot in years, although I understand some people may be still be having a bad experience with that stuff depending on their specific hardware.
Last edited by Broco on Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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