[remote]

[BotageL]

Yeah, as I recall you get alternate costume sets for finishing the first two sections of Recycled Vessel, which should be fairly trivial to do if you've already cleared the game once on that file.
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[analogos]

[Rud31]

I just got around to listening to this. It's pretty good.
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[Dracko]

I ordered this alongside Valhalla Rising (Appropriate double features?) and I ended up wondering whatever happened with the WildStorm comic miniseries.

Turns out it was released digitally for free:

Issue 1
Issue 2
Issue 3

Not that it's any good, mind you.

[Dracko]

The Legend of NieR: 8-bit Heroes

[protoblax]

As you can probably tell, I really, really, really loved NIeR, and I've got this huge hole inside since playing it that needs to be filled with good storytelling in games. I am told Drakengard is the cure for what ails me.
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[analogos]

penny for your thoughts, dracko

[smartblue]

To some extent, though the execution in story telling is dramatically different. Also the (good) soundtrack is usually really crazy and jarring, much like the game's narrative. Once you get past the grindy dynasty warriors gameplay, it can be pretty good.

[Ratoslov]

[protoblax]

Oh, hey, perfect! I hate myself too. We'll get along like gangbusters.
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[Moogs]

I beat Drakengard five motherfucking times to get all the endings and I rarely beat games even once. That's gotta be saying something.

[protoblax]

Man, it has been months since I beat it and try as I might I cannot forget NIeR. I think about it every day. It got its hooks into me like nothing has since my ten year old self was completely blown away by Ocarina of Time.

Could... could this be my favorite video game? Is that lame?
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[analogos]

been trying really hard to keep myself from posting about how underwhelmed I am by this game so far, but I need to play it a little longer first I think.

same with deadly premonition, I guess.

[protoblax]

I've been systematically recommending this game to all of my friends. The underwhelming feeling is pretty common (but fortunately not universal). I guess it's a matter of taste?
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[analogos]

it's probably more not being clear on what it is I'm supposed to be enjoying yet. I guess it's The Story and The World and all, but short of that picking up the pace (willing to imagine it will) it's otherwise so far been some pretty D-grade button mashing & fetch questing.

[Moogs]

[Isfet]

hm. hard to say why someone should like NieR, but...well, i guess it's the combination of all the subtle things incorporated into the game; all the little touches that made it enjoyable for me as a whole. that's horribly vague, but...yea,

[Drem]

Guys, has the question on the differences between Replicant and Gestalt been answered in the thread already? I'm not sure if I should skim through here in fear of spoilers. I've always heard that the only difference was the Brother-Father change, but in the past week two of my friends have told me things about how in whichever version came to America, Kaine was made not as important and that you could play her in the Japanese version, etc. etc. Pretty massive changes. When my first friend mentioned it I brushed it off, but when a second one mentioned it later I decided it wouldn't hurt to ask.

[Isfet]

wha? no, i'm pretty sure she was AI controlled in both games, but...i haven't played the JP PS3 version, so i can't say for sure. where are they getting this info from?

[Drem]

No idea. I don't think they are really on the up-and-up when it comes to Japanese games either, so I was a bit skeptical. All the answers I find through Google have been very vague about what changes to Kaine have been made, though it seems there might be some kind of dialogue changes with her.

[Isfet]

hm. yea, i mean, it's a bit hard to know without actually having that version of the game or speaking Japanese fluently, but i'm more compelled to believe that this may be a case of misinformation or the classic "the JP version is better" kind of thing that used to be pervasive in video game culture.

i'm sure dialogue is different in the game to reflect relationships between characters, but i can't imagine anything really major being changed.

[protoblax]

Your friends are confused, or just bad at passing on information. Kaine is never playable in any version of the game (both of which are thematically and narratively identical), but there was originally an Ending E planned where she would have been. But this never came to pass.

Why to like NIeR? How about deep characterization, brilliant dialogue and voice acting, hauntingly beautiful music, and a final dungeon which you carry with you forever? How about the closest thing a video game ever gets to making you feel like you've actually saved a life?
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[Moogs]

And an ending that's an actual ending. It's a shame (but understandable) that so many warnings flash on screen before it happens.

About the music, I find it much better outside the context of the game itself. For some reason it seems like the music loops in the game are really short, so it gets tiring after a while.

[protoblax]

I think the multiple warnings contribute to the feel, without going into spoilers. And that repetitiveness is kind of part of the charm as well, invoking the undending religious chants of yore, except a thousand times prettier. I almost didn't mind farming the junk heap for weapon upgrade parts with that soundtrack. And the Song of the Ancients the best town theme in any game ever and I will fight anyone who says otherwise.
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[analogos]

[Adilegian]

Bought this about a week ago for $20 at Walmart. The last copy on the shelves.

Beat it the first time and am now playing through the New Game+ file. Really enjoying it overall.

I think that Nier is probably the closest that I've gotten to enjoying a jRPG in a long time. It has all of the generic elements, but they're executed well, and I'm left with some dissonance between how the game wants to be perceived and how I actually perceive it. I get that the game wants me to be impressed with deep characterization and worldbuilding, but I find the characters only mildly deep, probably out of a chronic distrust of anything meaningful ever being possible through the jRPG genre ever again (goodbye youth). However, the quality of the execution (props to the VAs mostly) compensates for that gap between the quality of the characterization and the fact that these are jRPG characters.

The game's got a lot of imaginative weirdness to it, though, and that keeps me sticking around to finishing through the multiple endings. It's clear that all of this is building up to something, and I'm intrigued enough to see that through.

So congrats Nier! You got me playing a jRPG again. I'll never forgive you.

EDIT: Also you folks can totally hate me for this but there were several moments when I turned the background music all the way down for hours at a time. Too much choral vocals, not enough variation for my tastes. I've acclimated myself to it now so it's good sonic wallpaper.
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[Teflon]

Yeah I'm with you on the soundtrack, it's pretty good but it gets way too in your face at times, especially if you're wearing headphones. Actually I should try lowering the BGM volume because I think for me a lot of the annoyance comes from how high it is in the mix.

[BotageL]

Given how much of the game is mechanically and presentationally a tribute to older videogames the devs loved, it is entirely possible they are fucking with you!

edit: also, I get to see more of the status messages when Adilegian plays it on his PS3, which is always nice. Damn shame the PS3 doesn't let you see your own!
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[Adilegian]

Spoiler:

Second playthrough, and I'm almost proud of the fact that Nier's blind lust for vengeance is darkly responsible for all of the tender emotional (and final) moments of the shades' world.
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[tacotaskforce]

This keeps reminding me that I ought to add more SB people to my PS3 friends list. I want to see these mythical status messages.
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[Rud31]

I'm collecting them and am going to post the all that I have collected soon.
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[Drem]

Thanks for bumping this thread, because I just finished this over the weekend and wanted to talk about it but I never have anything insightful to say worth bumping an old thread.

I can see why people can feel a little underwhelmed when they start the game, because that’s how I felt (after the opening sequence). Not to say it was bad; it just didn’t seem particularly special wandering around a fantasy town and killing sheep. As the game progressed, the combat never got involved or challenging. Not to say it was bad; it just wasn’t a whole lot more than serviceable. Then that field music eventually got on my nerves. Not to say it was bad; it just got too repetitive. And the story sets you out on what was essentially a collect-a-thon. Not to say it wa- well, I guess it was nothing special in itself. I can’t remember my feelings on that very well, as my thoughts are currently swirling about my latter playthroughs.

I think what Nier really excelled at was its atmosphere, and the sheer quality of that alone made me look past any possible faults. My favorite part of Nier was the music direction and the soundtrack, and those two combined really pulled me into every scene in ways other games have not. What probably would have been mundane dungeon crawling instead felt like pieces of an epic journey; that they were serious and important to the characters. I suppose if you don’t like the soundtrack then this may fail on you, but I found the soundtrack rather incredible, and its use of vocals made it stand out more than regular background music. One of the landmark moments for me was when I first entered the village called the Aerie, with that haunting and melancholy melody. My first thought after entering was “wait, is this a village or a dungeon?” Then you enter and you’re given a wide shot of the vast and lifeless gray expanse that is the Aerie. The amount of dread I felt just being there gave that village a strong identity before I even ventured inside.

I absolutely loved how the game would seamlessly transition between variations on the same melody. Starting from a regular theme and going into a more beat heavy version as the story events got more serious, and then into an even stronger version when battle breaks out; the game did this religiously but expertly, altering the atmosphere while keeping it familiar. Most games will cut between separate story and battle music when there is a story scene followed by combat, but Nier’s gradual transitions of atmosphere using the same song kept the various scenes within an area from feeling like disparate events. The way everything was woven together increased the strength and impact of the atmosphere.

I love the soundtrack to Nier, no doubt, and perhaps that makes all the difference. Every song has a unified feeling of melancholy underlying it, granted if not by the melody then by the chanting, but each song had a strong identity of its own that in turn attached itself to the area you were in. The Junk Heap’s strong rhythmic and repetitive clanking and synth evoked the endless repetition of the factory processes; the Aerie’s forlorn and dreadful chanting conveyed a town that had relinquished any thoughts towards living; the many boss themes’ sense of urgency and gravity that made each battle feel like a culmination of everything before it.

And I can’t think of a single song that made me feel “happy” (I’m sure there are probably one or two exceptions that I’m just not remembering right now).

I think it was this atmosphere that made me, somewhere along the line, resonate with the world and characters. Factoring into this are probably Nier’s writing and voice acting, both of which I thought were of superb quality.

This is something I haven’t really sat down and thought about, but Nier did a really good job of developing the world. I have to admit that in the second half of the game I started doing less side quests, but I was struck by how every quest I did had something to say. Spoilers: All of the quests I did in the second half seemed to emphasize just how terrible everyone’s lives had become. The first quest I received and completed was a guard in your home village who requested help killing a large shade by the bridge, which had hurt his daughter. It wasn’t until a little later that I found and killed this shade, but when I returned to the guard he told me his daughter had died. “It doesn’t matter anymore.” As for the reward for my work, he tells me “I don’t need this anymore,” and gives me $30,000. $30,000. The death of his child had broken him. Another quest involved thievery in the local shopping market, which ends up being the work of two children following the orders of their father, who spends all day drinking at the local bar. The quest resolves with the children being sent to live with a different family. You can see the children in their new home at the library, and they’re always wondering why they can’t see their father.

Looking back on everything I wrote, I’m really gushing about this game like I think it’s some masterpiece, but I really don’t know. I don’t know how many of my friends I’d recommend this game to. I think it depends on what you play games for, what flaws you are willing to look past, and how much you’ll let yourself be absorbed by the atmosphere. I do feel strongly about the quality of Nier’s music direction and writing, as well as it’s bravery in breaking genres, but that latter bit is something best experienced rather than told.

I forgot to mention this earlier, but I think Nier is one of the most sincere games I’ve ever played. I suppose everything else I want to say is spoiler territory.

I have never played too much of Drakengaard, but it’s nihilism it’s quite well known. Being a “sequel” of this, I was surprised at how not-horrible Nier was, but shades (lol) of this started cropping up in the game’s second half. But god did the second playthrough make me feel like a terrible person. At least Ending A had the Shadowlord and Yona reunited in death, but Ending B instead showed the Shadowlord’s complete failure to save his daughter. Those final lines really got to me: “Thanks for always being there for me.” That was when I realized that I cared about the characters. I’m not sure if this is something I should be readily admitting, but that was the first time a game, let alone any piece of media, has ever made me cry. I also ended up crying after Ending D (ALBEIT NOT AS HEAVILY, SO PLEASE DON’T DEDUCT AS MANY BRO POINTS THIS TIME). This is something I’m still pondering over, how the game ended up affecting me so much. I don’t think this would have happened if the game had emphasized the world’s story more than it did. By keeping the information about the Shades and Gestalts to a minimum, it didn’t drown out or overcomplicate the core story of the father trying to save his daughter (for both of the game’s “factions”). More games need to lean subtlety and conservatism. And once again, props to the atmosphere and music direction which really pulled me in.

I also felt a little glad we got Father Nier, due to Endings C and D. Though I’m quite fond of the idea of a father trying to save his daughter, as parents are unfortunately not very common as game protagonists, I try not to judge the Brother version because I don’t know what nuances change with the dialogue. I would think they each have a slightly different tone generated by the familial relationship each one implies. But endings C and D emphasized the relationship between Nier and Kaine, and while entertaining the thought of what would happen if both managed to live, I far prefer the idea of Yonah gaining a mother instead of her gaining a sister.

Which kind of brings me to the Grimoir Nier fan book. Like any reasonable person, after hearing all of the warning to stay as far away from it as possible, I proceeded to download it and skim through the sections. I guess because I didn’t read a lot of it nothing made me rage quite as much as it seems to have made everyone else, but there were definitely some weird things in there. When Kaine beat up Nier after Emil’s sacrifice, that was supposed to be a “love scene” showing Kaine realizing she was in love? Really? And Emil’s inquiries into whether Nier would ever get married again was supposed to show Emil was gay? I thought that was a really nice scene, especially when Nier leaves and the scene continues to linger on Emil as he says “… I think it’s an important question.” It did a good job of conveying how much Emil cared for Nier, but really? Were they counting on the viewer to assume any show of affection from one character to another should be assumed to be romantic feelings? That’s kind of melodrama I appreciated Nier not having.

Skimming through the interviews, the book also seems to emphasize a lot about how everyone dies anyway, which seemed like a really unnecessary push to make the game more tragic. I suppose they still deserve props for realizing none of that should be put in the game proper.

* Right before posting, I remembered that Nier Replicant featured Nier as a brother, so this scene may have been a little different in that version. I doubt Brother Nier would have had a past marriage, so maybe the conversation was a little different and conveyed Emil’s feelings better.


Edit: Just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for turning me onto the game, regardless of how you felt about it. I was pretty lukewarm about it around it's release but decided to check it out after reading this thread, and it ended up being quite an experience for me.

[BotageL]

[Moogs]

What drove me away from the book was the detail about

Kaine not being a hermaphrodite due to being possessed by a male shade, but rather that there was some sort of error in the system that happened when her Replicant was born. It makes the idea of her being two sexes seem like an afterthought.

[BotageL]

I prefer to think of Kaine's hermaphrodite status as not the fetishistic "dickgirl" variety that got the game press in the more Sankaku Complex-aligned corners of the Internet, but, y'know, an intersexed individual. It's still the sort of thing that might become town gossip and lead to her being bullied as a kid, as we saw in her dreams. The Shade Possession theory really would've been just as bad, honestly.
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[Rud31]

Thanks for that post Drem. That's what makes me recommend this and Dog Days to people. They are both experiences. Video games that are worth experiencing. I can't guarantee you'll take gain the same or greater reaction as I did from them, but I'm certain it will cause something.
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[Rud31]

HEY DUDES, NIER DRAMA CD COMING SOON

First story is about Nier in Tokyo. Second is about the original Kaine.

Even though Cavia got absorbed there seems to be a lot of fan support for Nier. That's interesting.
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[protoblax]

This is probably the greatest news ever.
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[Rud31]

Only if you have 100% Japanese comprehension.
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[Drem]

I was always under the impression that Nier didn't do very well and that was why Cavia got absorbed, but Grimoire Nier (GN) makes it sound like it did pretty well in Japan, which I guess is why there's a drama CD coming out. Maybe Cavia's absorption had more to do with its parent company than Cavia itself? Still, I don't think I really need anything added to the story. Even if I did, after seeing the stuff in GN do I really want more of that?

Now, if they were making a drama CD that took place after Nier maybe that would be okay, because via GN:

"Settings not revealed in Grimoire Nier: A few years after the ending, aliens come. It's going to get rather crowded with gestalts, replicants and aliens....but no, they won't save the replicants with their technology. The scenario is sort of like Independence Day. And then, gestalts and replicants will finally work together."

I can't keep myself from laughing every time I read that. But I think I'm going to end up reading through GN anyway, because I'm really curious about Cavia as a company and their motivations behind Nier and Drakengaard.