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I really want to like the original Metroid...
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Shapermc
crawling in his skin


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Chicago via St. Louis

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:03 am        Reply with quote

inmatarian wrote:
Anyway, isn't there a rom hack where you can play as a naked samus? I'm sure that would help the biggest haters of the game absolutely love it.

Yeah, it's really terrible. Here's where you can find it (SFW, no images)
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aderack



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:08 am        Reply with quote

Yeah, I only really got into Metroid 1 retroactively. I absolutely adored the second game; basically all of the things that bothered me about the first one had been repaired, plus it was more intimate and atmospheric and unnerving. Some years later, when I went back to the first game, I understood it rather better.

I never played Super Metroid except through emulation. So. That was a while later, yet.
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aderack



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:13 am        Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
Yeah, it's really terrible. Here's where you can find it (SFW, no images)

Oh, I did a better one. I'm afraid it's in Maine, though. I had to tinker with it for a while to get the palette the way I wanted it.
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aderack



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:17 am        Reply with quote

Talbain wrote:
To me, Metroid 2 seemed to be much more about the hunt. The original seemed to be about exploration

Spider Ball.

Oh hell.
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Rud31
forum ruler of Iraq


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: SanAnTex

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:40 am        Reply with quote

Agreeing with Aderack for once (except for that whole naked samus thing.) Metroid 2 was one of the first games that IC/SB made me retry and beat. It's a very good game. You can't get lost because of the constrained lava. Well, you can get lost, but knowing where you are going the whole time (down.) Still, no shame in having a map handy!

Toups brought up a lot of important points on the previous page about the original Metroid. Still if you don't like it, you don't like it. I don't. I also don't really like Super Metroid. Love 2 and Prime though.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:55 pm        Reply with quote

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Talbain



Joined: 14 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:19 pm        Reply with quote

Eric-Jon Rössel Waugh wrote:
Talbain wrote:
To me, Metroid 2 seemed to be much more about the hunt. The original seemed to be about exploration

Spider Ball.

Oh hell.


The Spider Ball certainly was interesting. I'd like to see something like that in Metroid Prime (that wasn't constricted by tracks).
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Max Cola



Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Location: a shotgun shack

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:36 pm        Reply with quote

Metroid 2 is coming in the mail!

Also, I have a Game Boy Pocket and a Game Boy Color to play it on! And Super Game Boy! And a GBA! I have a lot of Game Boy stuff at my house.
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parkbench



Joined: 12 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:41 pm        Reply with quote

Quote:
So your health is a timer -- each game, you need to try to get as deep as possible into the caves before it runs out. As you keep stubbornly pushing forward, your health gradually wears down, you start hearing the low-health beep, you deploy all your skills to make it just one more room, just one more room. And all the while, you have absolutely no idea how much further down you have left to go. That's pretty damn scary and exciting, to me.


This description makes Metroid sound particularly like a roguelike. Ironic. '

Incidentally, does anyone have a copy of M2 lying around? I suppose it might be too precious to trade, eh? I guess I could just order it...

Is it really *that* horrendous to emulate? What if you have a controller?
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Talbain



Joined: 14 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:54 pm        Reply with quote

parkbench wrote:
Is it really *that* horrendous to emulate? What if you have a controller?


It's not, but the experience isn't the same. I think it's mostly because when you play it on the handheld you get a sort of tunnel vision effect that's not really possible on a computer.
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option



Joined: 06 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:07 pm        Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
(SFW, no images)


wouldn't it be SFW even if there were images? you know.. 8-bit and all....


Also, I really like Broco's discription of the gameplay. When the game came out thats pretty much how I played it. diving into the network of caves and explore almost at random each time. I didnt even think there was an ending until a good bit after the games release, when a friends older brother showed us the Justin Bailey code and ran through the end real quick.

Since then I have beaten Metroid many times, but think I liked it better when I thought it never ended...
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Mr. Mechanical
ontological terrorist


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:00 am        Reply with quote

I'm playing the original Metroid right now off my Zero Mission cart, using the ZARPAS SWORD code to just power through the game. I just killed Kraid, but now I'm just trying to get back up that long tunnel with the single line of breakable/reappearing blocks as my only way back up. I keep getting knocked off and it's frustrating. All in the timing I guess.

I've played this a lot but never beaten it and now I figured I'd just cheat and see the ending, but nooooo, turns out you have to kill Ridley and Kraid before you can access Tourian (uh, just like every other Metroid game I know) so I can't just go straight to the end. And I'm still stuck after killing Kraid. Damn it.

The music is pretty good though.

edit-Okay just got past it. Turns out patience is the key, and taking a break on the single block platforms that occasionally run along the side.
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username



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:06 am        Reply with quote

It's been a while, but I believe there is a way to get to Tourian with only beating one of the two bosses through glitchy techniques.

Also, for what it is worth, the original Metroid is a game that doesn't hold up for me, so if you aren't enjoying it I say move on the Metroid 2, which is still enjoyable to this day.
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Mr. Mechanical
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:19 am        Reply with quote

Oh I've played myself plenty of Metroid 2, don't worry about that. I kind of can't play the game anymore though, for whatever reason.

Just beat Ridley, now it's time to trek back up to Tourian for the end-game. Yay!
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Mr. Mechanical
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Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:37 am        Reply with quote

Just beat it. That was fun. Samus in a bikini. Woohoo.

Also the game slows to a crawl when you have five plus metroids attached to you, and they're quite a pain to remove.

Man, that really was fun. I've attempted actually playing the game before, zoning in on it and trying to get as far as possible in a single sitting. Never beat it that way though, but I plan on doing so someday.

Now I'm debating on whether or not I should go through it again as suitless Samus just for kicks.
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Baines
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:00 am        Reply with quote

If you've got five on you, your best bet is probably to go through a door.
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Max Cola



Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Location: a shotgun shack

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:20 am        Reply with quote

I got Metroid 2 today, and so far I love it. Samus is easier to control, there are (rare!) save points, the Spider Ball is awesome, and the game is genuinely eerie sometimes, when you're just running around these dark caves and there's no music, just little noises occasionally. My GBA gives the game a pleasing color scheme - Samus and enemies are warm colors (reds and yellows), everything else is a cool blue and white (even the lava?).

So yeah, Metroid 2 holds up better.
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Koji



Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:35 am        Reply with quote

Started playing the original Metroid in my GBA, FDS version, last night, and I'm up to Kraid after beating Ridley. He's tough, but I think I have an idea on how to kill him now. Why the FDS version, though? Because I admire the sound design in Metroid and I prefer to listen to the original sound effects and what not. The music I still consider to be the best use of the NES sound chip.

There's something funny about the music in Metroid 2, though. In 1, you can listen to it and pretty much understand it as if you were playing the game, but for 2, you really need to be playing the game to grasp its brilliance. Out of the game (as a GBS file, or whatever sound format) it's annoying to listen to, with its short loops and cacophonic sound, but in the game it's masterfully used to enhance every relevant moment, highlighted by the silent sections in between. It's the only game where this has happened to me.
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Broco



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:41 am        Reply with quote

Koji wrote:
Started playing the original Metroid in my GBA, FDS version, last night, and I'm up to Kraid after beating Ridley. He's tough, but I think I have an idea on how to kill him now.


The quick'n'cheesy way to kill Kraid, if you have a couple of energy tanks when you get to him, is to morph into a ball and spam him with bombs with reckless disregard for your own health. It ought not to work but it does. That's the way I always beat him when I was speedrunning through the game in <30min, since you don't even need missiles that way.
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aderack



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:56 am        Reply with quote

Mr. Mechanical wrote:
'm just trying to get back up that long tunnel with the single line of breakable/reappearing blocks as my only way back up.

You can use the wall-door trick on those, y'know. Best bug ever?

The FDS version -- was that the official Japanese GBA release? If so, can you save and everything?
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Koji



Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:46 am        Reply with quote

Yes, Famicom Mini version. Can save, it's exactly like the original FDS game, except that here you can also put the Game Boy to sleep, and that the graphics are slightly squashed horizontally. The difference with the NES Classics/Zero Mission version is that you have three save slots, and that by these saves you resume your game from Brinstar instead of the last elevator you took. And the sound thing, of course.

Broco, actually I ended up just killing him with my nearly limitless supply of acquired missiles at point-blank range. And after exploring every inch of the map that was left, I'm mostly certain that I have every missile and energy tank in the game before Tourian. Wait, I think I remember some place I couldn't reach in Norfair... Oh well, anyway, I headed for Tourian and got killed stupidly by a metroid mass-attack. I'll get that Mother Brain tomorrow for sure.
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RecessRapist
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:22 am        Reply with quote

Super Metroid was also my first game. And I gave up on the original after an hour of dying and trying to find a room that wasn't a huge pit with lots of platforms. THough that ZARPAS SWORD might be the little push that I needed to play though it all!

And I have to try M2 sometimes. My friend had it on his gameboy but I lost touch with him :(
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guest253



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:22 pm        Reply with quote

Koji wrote:
Yes, Famicom Mini version. Can save, it's exactly like the original FDS game, except that here you can also put the Game Boy to sleep, and that the graphics are slightly squashed horizontally. The difference with the NES Classics/Zero Mission version is that you have three save slots, and that by these saves you resume your game from Brinstar instead of the last elevator you took. And the sound thing, of course.


i got that one too. i ran back and forth through that first door at least 10 times when i first played it. those doors sound way cooler than in the NES version. ^_^
among other things...

i should pick it up again. played that game a huge lot on in the worst shape available (pal nes...) as a kid, and the music of the first 3 Metroid games are a major influence in my own music. i should at least get to Ridley's hideout to find out what that freaky 13/8 tune sounds like on the FDS chip!

also! supposedly, bikini mode was added to the NES version for the west and does not exist in the FDS game. yeah.

i've compared the Famicom mini and the version included in Zero Mission side by side, and the scaling on the ZM version is really shit compared to the Famicom Mini... i suppose the NES-classic looks the same as the Famicom mini, but the ZM rendition is seriously painful if you love the game...
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dmauro



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:54 pm        Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure I still have my copy of Metroid 2 I'd be willing to trade if anyone wants to PM me.

I started playing Metroid 1 yesterday. I'm pretty sure I never beat it when I was younger, although I did play through Zero Mission. I'm really enjoying it except that once you get missles, enemies stop giving health all the time and start giving you excess missles.
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Broco



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Headquarters

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:59 pm        Reply with quote

Koji wrote:
And after exploring every inch of the map that was left, I'm mostly certain that I have every missile and energy tank in the game before Tourian.


Ha, I thought that too on my first game, but I was dead wrong. Don't count on having gotten everything unless you've checked an FAQ.
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guest253



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:14 pm        Reply with quote

half on topic: i realised that i might be better off playing this on a nes-emulator for DS (full screen and all) than to pull out my famicom mini (squashed and black-bordered on DS and all), but is there a nes-emulator for DS that emulated FDS?
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Koji



Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:30 pm        Reply with quote

glitch wrote:
i've compared the Famicom mini and the version included in Zero Mission side by side, and the scaling on the ZM version is really shit compared to the Famicom Mini... i suppose the NES-classic looks the same as the Famicom mini, but the ZM rendition is seriously painful if you love the game...


Actually, I've heard elsewhere that the NES Classics really suck in this respect. I believe that for the Famicom Minis they redrew the sprites and tiles, but didn't for the NES Classics. I've not really ever played an NES Classic, though, but this is what I've heard.

glitch wrote:
half on topic: i realised that i might be better off playing this on a nes-emulator for DS (full screen and all) than to pull out my famicom mini (squashed and black-bordered on DS and all), but is there a nes-emulator for DS that emulated FDS?


I don't think there is any. And nesDS's scaling really sucks anyway, as it doesn't scale sprites. Plus, the sound chip is not fully emulated (PocketNES, for GBA, has better sound.) Your best option is to play the Famicom Mini.
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guest253



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:49 pm        Reply with quote

Koji wrote:
Actually, I've heard elsewhere that the NES Classics really suck in this respect. I believe that for the Famicom Minis they redrew the sprites and tiles, but didn't for the NES Classics. I've not really ever played an NES Classic, though, but this is what I've heard.


that's interesting. for all games? i got the nes-classic of Xevious and a friend of mine has the famicom mini so i could do a side-by-side with those, but i'd be amazed if they differed much. it'd be a shitload of work to rework all sprites, but i guess weirder things have happened.

Koji wrote:
I don't think there is any. And nesDS's scaling really sucks anyway, as it doesn't scale sprites. Plus, the sound chip is not fully emulated (PocketNES, for GBA, has better sound.) Your best option is to play the Famicom Mini.


i usually favor nesDS thanks having the correct screen aspect ratio, but incomplete sound chip emulation is a no-go for FDS Metroid, even if it would run at all! thanks Koji. ^_^
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haze
la belle poney sans merci


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:40 am        Reply with quote

Max Cola wrote:
And I just tried to replay original Metroid and realized something I really, really no-forgive hate about it. Sometimes, when you shoot open doors and try to run through, enemies FOLLOW YOU INTO THE LITTLE ROOM BETWEEN ROOMS AND DAMAGE YOU UNTIL THE SLOOWWWWW SCREEN PROGRESSION LETS YOU INTO THE OTHER ROOM. I actually died from that once.


it just now occurred to me how funny this is. not the being damaged part, though that can be kind of funny. until it happens to you.

how many games actually allow enemies to follow you from one "room" to the next? it's like an unwritten law that all games need force fields between non-continuous areas. why shouldn't they follow you? every gamer who's played MGS and escaped a whole pack of guards by running through a doorway knows it's just NOT NATURAL for them to follow through! unless it's a scripted event where something is chasing you. or in Metroid it's considered a bug. damn.

makes me think the glowy light borders in FF12 were not made for the intent of loading times, but to give players a chance to run away from enemies by going to the next field area.
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Mr. Apol
king of zembla


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:35 am        Reply with quote

max cola it's okay

the original metroid sort of blows
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dmauro



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:46 pm        Reply with quote

haze wrote:
why shouldn't they follow you?

Because as you're traveling between the rooms they damage you and you can't do anything about it since you're temporarily not in control of your character.
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guest253



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:54 pm        Reply with quote

dmauro wrote:
haze wrote:
why shouldn't they follow you?

Because as you're traveling between the rooms they damage you and you can't do anything about it since you're temporarily not in control of your character.


i'd say they should either not damage you or you should stay in control of your character, but enemies following into a next room in itself is way cool.

then again, allowing an enemy to get through the door with you can be blamed on the player. it's not like you can't see it coming. one hit would be enough though!

are there any worthwhile tricks in metroid that make use of this? i could imagine that bringing an icebeam and a stray enemy into a high room could get you places...
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Broco



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:11 pm        Reply with quote

glitch wrote:
are there any worthwhile tricks in metroid that make use of this? i could imagine that bringing an icebeam and a stray enemy into a high room could get you places...


You can get to Mother Brain without beating the bosses, for starters!
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Koji



Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:17 pm        Reply with quote

Enemies don't really go through doors, they just go into the inter-room chamber and attack you as you stand there defenseless; then they disappear. It's definitely an issue in the game, but it's only normal in all the rawness that Metroid exhudes, from the graphics to the map design, counting the thousands of bugs.

So I finished the game. It was great. I'll beat it again without collecting any missiles and try to do it as fast as possible, then hopefully I'll get a better ending.
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guest253



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:56 pm        Reply with quote

Broco wrote:
You can get to Mother Brain without beating the bosses, for starters!


ok, i didn't know that, but i just found me a speedrun that pulls that trick.
sweet ^_^
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Max Cola



Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:25 am        Reply with quote

Broco wrote:
glitch wrote:
are there any worthwhile tricks in metroid that make use of this? i could imagine that bringing an icebeam and a stray enemy into a high room could get you places...


You can get to Mother Brain without beating the bosses, for starters!

I used that trick once! It's quite easy to pull off, actually.

I've found that Metroid 2 gives me the same feeling that Metroid seems to give other people here. I get all panicky when low on health because, unlike in the first game (where you had to die in order to "save"), if you die here you lose any and all cool shit you may have collected since you last picked up the game. It doesn't help that the ominous buzzing you hear when low on helth gets faster and louder as you get closer to death!

I also like the fac that the only doors are ones that lead to items. The lack of "rooms" makes the world feel more conisistent and continious.

So yeah, Metroid 2 is basically the original Metroid only better and more fun. Super Metroid is a bit different, because it's not about hunting down and killing something while picking up useful items along the way; it's more about accumulating useful items and exploring a big, pretty, scary (under)world and occasionally bumping into big monster things.

And it's NARPAS SWORD, not ZARPAS SWORD. In case there is any confusion.
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haze
la belle poney sans merci


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:46 am        Reply with quote

inversely, i am enjoying Metroid 1 a lot as I play it again now. I beat it once before but I cheated by using online maps and guides. so since I barely remember any of it, luckily, I'm doing it again by making my own maps and finding stuff, and it's becoming quite fun exploring. both this and the original Zelda, too many people pass them by because they're not as polished as future sequels, and it's not immediately entertaining in the first 15 minutes.

okay one thing i would've changed is starting with more energy, proportional to the total energy tanks. Zelda was more forgiving than this, where you had ways to avoid grinding for hearts.

OKAY, I do think there is something genius about the repetitive room design. not only the FEELING-LOST confusion, but in a way of noticing these patterns and solving other rooms in the same way. for example, in the item statue rooms (this is in both Metroid 1 and 2) there's a bombable space beneath them, leading to a small tunnel. sometimes the wall behind it is sealed, sometimes it leads to another passage. you start doing the same trick in every statue room you find! also, the secret tunnels in the Norfair vertical rooms, it's always the same every time. sometimes useful, sometimes a dead-end.


since I played Metroid 2 to death when I was young, and memorized just about all of it, so now I'm all jaded... it's hard for me to see the appeal of that one over the original Metroid. very nice graphics, sharper play control, more items, sure... but it feels way too much "lonely game" (lol) with all the giant empty caverns filled with nothing. I can't remember a single enemy in that game besides the metroids (and one boss) that give you any trouble. everything else is just background noise, aimlessly zipping back and forth, not caring if you shoot it or run by.

and the linearity kind of ruined the exploration in a small way. I mean, backtracking to find items you might've missed was just a pain, all that climbing back up. hey, still a great game, better than most other early "experimental sequels"
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Koji



Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:05 am        Reply with quote

haze wrote:
both this and the original Zelda, too many people pass them by because they're not as polished as future sequels, and it's not immediately entertaining in the first 15 minutes.


This is exactly how I feel about both games, though luckily it's not many people interested in games who just pass up on them, since they are widely regarded as NES classics, except for the rebellious (of which SB has bunches) or the PC/Sega/Playstation fanboys. A weird thing, though, is that I consider Zelda to be superior when it comes to polish --both games being rather similar in many aspects,-- and yet Zelda was released before Metroid.
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L



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:26 am        Reply with quote

haze wrote:
I can't remember a single enemy in that game besides the metroids (and one boss) that give you any trouble.
The only non-Metroid boss is Arachnus, right?
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dmauro



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:42 pm        Reply with quote

I tried the color hack for Metroid 2 that someone linked to on the first page, and it doesn't seem to work. I tried the auto patcher and the ips patch with my own ips patcher. I also tried it with two different roms. It wouldn't work in either of the emulators I tried it in, and it said that there was a bad header along with some other problems with it. what gives?
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haze
la belle poney sans merci


Joined: 04 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:47 pm        Reply with quote

L wrote:
haze wrote:
I can't remember a single enemy in that game besides the metroids (and one boss) that give you any trouble.
The only non-Metroid boss is Arachnus, right?


yeah, if that's what it's called. the one that drops the spring ball.

that's the only aggressive non-Metroid enemy. probably this was intentional, to change the flow. metroid II is different, in a good way, but not necessarily better. I can understand people saying "skip M1, Super Metroid is better" but people are curious to see the "roots" of the series I guess?

it's like "skip Zelda 1, Zelda 2 is better and more fun" or "skip Castlevania 1, Castlevania 2 is bigger and better" or etc.
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