[another god]

SC2 is big.

It's really big.

The game is Street Fighter 4 times a million.

More people play SC1 competitively *and* casually than any fighting game ever made. The original is a joy to watch, and the sequel is nothing but more of the same. Do you know how gorgeous it is to watch zerg drones morph into buildings? It's fucking gorgeous.

This game doesn't need to do a thing to be phenomenal. It just needs to be.
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[another god]

As far as I'm concerned: getting good at Starcraft is infinitely easier than in a fighting game.

Everytime I've ever flatout lost in SC is because I wasn't doing anything. I wasn't making more buildings/units/etc. I had a shitton of resources and they were being wasted because I was conservative with my worker usage.

Of course there's the early game rush, but that's silly. That never happens unless you really suck. Read a build order and learn how to defend against annoying tactics. It's pretty much a single player game for 3 minutes anyways*.

*It's not, but if you're concerned about the early game rush beating you then, yeah, it is.

[another god]

Build order isn't too hard to figure out. It's a lot easier to figure out than SFIV combos.
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[another god]

Yeah. SC:Ghost is going to come in 50 flavors. One of them is going to be good, though.
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[another god]

My b.net account is rrazcueta hat gmail and my game name is sigurd. Anyone want to get in some games?

[another god]

[another god]

This game!

There's so much to it. Anyone find a place with good Pro replays?
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[another god]

It's not just polish. That's fucking ridiculous.
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[another god]

12 years after the original there is still a voracious fanbase for Starcraft (the idea, not the game).

That they make a sequel is a no brainer. That they make a sequel that doesn't fuck with the formula much is unfortunate. But that they introduce things like a single player campaign with REAL PROGRESS and UNIQUE UNITS that are used on INTERESTING MAPS is FUCKING AWESOME.

They could've easily just done a "here's the next unit, try the next map" type of campaign and no one would've blinked an eye. The reviews that talk about no innovation and whatnot would be right. But that they had spent all that time coming up with *more than a handful of unique units* for the single player and then nixed them for the multiplayer... shit that's ballsy. That is them understanding that they have two different kinds of games and two different kinds of gamers both of whom they need to placate. And, fuck, if you don't like the SC2 single player campaign or the multiplayer campaign then you wouldn't like either of them for any RTS.

If we were to compare this to fighting games this would be the Super Turbo to Super Street Fighter 4. Yeah I said that right. The game is just better than the original Starcraft. Period. There's not even a question. Maybe the story is better in the original. Maybe the story is better in WW over ST. Who fucking cares? The gameplay. The narrative. It's all done *phenomenally well*. Miles of lore can be written for SC2. The entire SC mythos has been both expanded and solidified. So what if it doesn't make sense? Every time there's a, "that's not realistic," problem with the story, you realize they did it so we could have genuinely fun levels to play. How fucking cool is that?

I think it's fucking absurd anyone has any problems with this game. I really do. If your friend fucking loved chess, would you tell him not to buy a shiny new fancy awesome chess set 12 yrs after his first one?

*The multiplayer in SC2 is also leagues better than it is in SC1. It is more approachable, it's deeper and more varied, and stupid micro barriers are ironed out completely.

[another god]

When you compare Starcraft to Total War you're being pretty ridiculous. Half of the appeal of Total War is the turn based strategy. The RTS encounters are all about being epic (which they are) than they are about tactics. I mean, shit, if you play the turnbased part well enough you don't really have to be good at all! That might be appealing, but it distracts from the RTS aspect. A lot.

While SC2 isn't particularly "new feeling" it was pretty fucking necessary. The interface is better here by far. I mean, shit, if you had 10 battle cruisers up against 10 other battle cruisers, the game was pretty much a clickfest to see if you could click one of your BCs, yamato, and click one of theirs. Rinse, repeat, and hope you don't click on already clicked BCs. And while, yes, that's annoying, but it's also really distracting from the actual game - resource management. There are tons of little things that have been changed to be more intuitive, so it's easier for the middle players with good strategy and bad clicking to be better. On top of that the new game has brought a ton of people back into the community. That's kind of fucking awesome for a game that has a reputation of having a shit-load of pros owning noobs.

Compare this to any other "update" game, and you'll see they've done everything just right. Street Fighter 4? Team Fortress 2? Maybe they should've done an Infinity Ward and did something where you murder a ton of people in an airport and then we wouldn't focus on how similar the game is to something released 3 years before it.
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[another god]

Whoa, don't get so defensive just because you don't get what makes "polish" and "superior"-ity good things. I never even said you have to love SC2. I just want you to acknowledge that it's awesome.

[another god]

Watch the community. It's definitely more awesome than the WoW community.
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[another god]

lol who plays Total War online?

I played Shogun and Rome and both games were top heavy. The campaign is the real meat of those games because it's awesome turn based strategy. Shit was cool. Unfortunately combat is really boring and slow. The resource management is always on the negative (i.e. you're always losing resources) and there's no growth, except for during the campaigns. I could turn this into a critique of Total War games, but I don't think that's fair especially with the RTS talk in this SC2 thread. Basically, if you really want to talk about interesting alternatives to SC RTSing, then you're going to have to do better than TW games. Fuck, look at TW:Napoleon videos. DoW2 does multitroop squads much better.
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[another god]

This game is so well designed it's kind of sick.

I was playing a TvT match earlier today, and almost every kind of unit was brought out. From a tank/rine/rauder drop to Battlecruisers. They've expanded the units viability so nothing is ever a 1-use unit. I took down a fleet of BCs with stimmed marines! It was awesome!

Has anyone been watching matches? I like watching TheLittleOne a lot. He's kind of crazy, so it makes him fun to watch.
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[another god]

You guys that aren't playing Starcraft should leave the thread :(
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[another god]

The reaper rush is probably the most amazing thing in SC.

It's super fast and easily countered, but it keeps the econ/tech growth of your opponents at a good, even pace. If you're good you're not really behind - you just have units to harass your opponents for later. If you're not very good then you have some catching up to do. But not all is lost! You have gas to help tech and it's great.

There's something beautiful about the balance in SC2. The pace is fast and exciting, and the lulls are pretty much non-existant. I wish I didn't get those RTS jitters, though, because it really gets to me. I think I might play better a little buzzed....
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[another god]

The first one you posted wasn't a 2v1! But it was an ok match. You have a nice pace to your play. I think you could be a lot faster doing stuff - you can 10 Depot just as fast as your 9 Depot. Otherwise you did some smart things plugging holes. I think you could've been in trouble if your opponent wasn't being dumb with Mutas, but most opponents are dumb with Mutas, so.

The second one has a lot of similar things! You lost your expo early and that kind of sucked, but you have this thing for moving your tanks down from the high ground. I don't see the advantage for you to do that. I think cannoning up your command might've been a better choice than bringing troops down. The zealots just tore apart your rines. Also - you had like 1000 min. A lot of pros would have 3 or 4 racks out by this time, so they'd have at least 4 more Mauraders - that's 1k right there.

Things I did like - the rax/factory attachment swap. Pretty awesome. Get tanks quick!

Edit: Day9 has taught me a lot as far as getting from good play to great play. Please watch this: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3651794/

[another god]

Yeah, I think I get up to 6 raxes in my main depending on what my opponent is going for. It can even get higher if I get another base on a bigger map.
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[another god]

Haha. Holy shit.

http://screplays.com/replays/sigurdraphael/3479

I am not good. I can critique replays, but I'm only Gold level :(

Anyways, the replay above I just played. I had a shit ton of minerals even though my worker count was 35 and his was 51. I seriously built 6 raxes just because I had too much minerals, and it saved my ass so much in the middle. Well... not really. But sort of!
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[another god]

Ok, this is the last time I refer to this: but anyone who "LOL this is just SC1 all over again" is the same as the person who said Third Strike has SNES graphics.

Please get out of the thread. Thanks.
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[another god]

Toss don't really want to kill anyone except the Zerg. They'll kill Terran planets to keep the Zerg from spreading. But that's about it.
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[another god]

You can actually go back into the battle log machine in the Bridge to play the alternate missions. I don't know if it gives you both types of units - doubt it - but I did it for that Dr's missions earlier in the game.
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[another god]

Anyone up for some games? RealID - rrazcueta at gee mail. I like 1v1, but I wouldn't mind a 2v2 or so.
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[another god]

It's a cutscene because the crazy awesome shit in game is more like TLO killing a Mothership with stimmed Marines.

Also, anyone who doesn't watch Day9 for learning and HuskyStarcraft for Woot-pro-gaming is missing out. Or they know more than I do.
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[another god]

Ha!

So I was looking at Terran builds (on Liquipedia, of course) and then there's this one called 2 Orbital. What!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grexsglfMV4

That kind of build i just mind boggling. In the old SC I swear I'd do stuff like Supply walls and bunkers and Siege tanks and think that was -it-. But seeing this and other kinds of Terran walls, it's like Tetris craft sometimes.

Also, I wish I could change my in-game name to anotherghost. I'm really getting a hold of unit micro now, especially after WC3 fixed me from SC original, and ghosts are quickly becoming my favorite unit. Interesting that the 3 series of games that Blizzard does really are more like 5 series of games. The craft games and the RPG games really overlap.
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[another god]

It looks safer than a standard FE if only because the CC is fucking massive.
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[another god]

About the story:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/08/11/the-prestige-starcraft-2-narrative-innovation/

I'm pretty sure they nailed it.
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[another god]

I find it really interesting that there's always a "path most favorable" that changes depending on scouting. For example, when playing TvP I'm always getting Marines/Ghosts. In fact, in most setups Marines are fucking *golden*. Golden until you start spotting Colossuses - then what? After colossus? Vikings? Keep pumping Marines/Ghosts plus Vikes? Or do you think a couple more ghosts is all you need? You got the upgrades already. It's always different at that point. If you have a HUGE marine/ghost army you are going to need some vikes, but depending on how many colossuses... how may do you get? Do you build more Star Ports? Should you move your 4th C Rax away and build a SP so you can get even more Vikes.

It's at that point that the combat in the game starts to smooth out. *No one's sure* at that point, so no one engages in *those* skirmishes. It becomes a guessing game. I might have the right counter against the enemy troops, but he has a couple units that counter my stuff *just right*? Shit.

[another god]

God I hate scan sometimes.
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[another god]

If there's one thing I hate in this game it's mirror matches. Also, Pat, what's your RealID?

[another god]

Uh, dude, that was teh game pat dropped and then I got 3rushed.

You beat 3 guys by yourself. You had 1 pylon left. Werd
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[another god]

Epic Win
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[another god]

The MULE/Chrono/Queen management is pretty genius, IMO. It gives each race a heartbeat. Something to constantly check up on other than selecting the right production building and producing whatever is not being produced/useful. It also helps change the flow of the game - can the Queen spare the energy to build more units? Or should she spread the creep? It forces the player to think about the future at the same time constantly being aware of the present.

There are a few things to getting good:

Learn economy management. The easiest way to start is to learn a build order that is general and flexible! Focus on not getting supply blocked AND focus on not building too much in one direction (e.g. too many production buildings means not enough minerals, too many upgrade buildings means not enough units, this is a balance you have to learn by playing and/or reading strats). Also, unless you are PRO... spend your money!

Learn what units counter what units. Start generally - e.g. marines/medivacs/mauraders (MMM) are really fucking good vs. everything EXCEPT colossuses. And maybe mass roach.

Learn to scout!!! This is so important. Even if you don't know how to use a bioball like TLO, if you are facing MASS MUTALISKS you should just get one anyways.

Learn how to use units effectively. I was getting owned by protoss until I had ghosts EMP their shields. Then I was owning them. A lot. This is probably the easiest of the four things. It's also the least important.
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[another god]

Yeah I'm having a problem with supply myself. I get to the point where I can't look at my production buildings and build the *right* amount of supply and then I either forget or over compensate. Coming from the CC, though, it makes sense. You have on-the-fly fix-my-shit skills. It's either free money, scouting, or supply.

I think if a game wanted to get rid of supply, it should've be WC3...
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[another god]

Yeah, against turtling harass is the best option. Zerg is so good at hharass. Even if they have the right counter of marines, medivacs, and turrets, then you can take brood lords and mutas, blow up a few turrets, and attack from multiple sides alternately. Eventually the turtle will send too many marines to one side and you have an opportunity to nydus.
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[another god]

That's silly. If you're fighting against someone that's turtling you have 12x the resources as them. As soon as you realize they're turtling, you need to get 2-3 more expansions and build a shit ton of units. In fact, a lot of my strategy is to contain and just get more resouurces.
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[another god]

Kap, you're cool and all, but you've totally just shitted on this thread with your "I'm better than you" crap.
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[another god]

For those reasons I am not a fan of colossi and high templars.

I get what you're saying, though. There is a lot of cheese out there like 6pooling, and they are just decimated by the right counters.

The double zerg harass transition to 1 speedling army and 1 quick muta army sounds pretty interesting though. It's not the obvious cheese that you expect, and unless you have a Terran going hellions it's going to take a while for anyone to come up with an army to fight a bunch of zerglings out in the field. I kinda like the gas trade, but I think the interface is pretty chunky, so... Who knows if it's viable to pros? Does anyone even take 2v2s seriously?
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[another god]

Hey ninjafetus, next time we play I'll be T and run a 5rax reaper v your Z. That sounds dirty, but I guess all Starcraft kind of is.
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[another god]

5 minutes to get 200 supply is a lot. Most games only take 25 minutes. Think about how long it takes to take down one building w/ maxed out units.
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[another god]

lol, man, i am happy i'm not in bronze. when you have a lot of shit it's pretty worth your while to be aggressive with scouting. sending in 6 roaches to see what's up in his base (cannons) helps you out a lot. hell, take 6 zerglings and split them up over the map. that's 150min for total map awareness.
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