[Lymojo]

Here, I'll explain why real quick.

Autosaving discourages save scumming, which is the worst way to play video games. I remember as a young teen playing GTA3, I was so obsessed with having a pristine stats page that I would literally restart the system every time I failed a mission.

This is absolutely insane, self-destructive (and self-deluding, because one's real stats are of course FAR from pristine) behavior, but it is unfortunately really typical for a lot of gamers. I remember a dmx alt wrote some absurd thing about doing this because "the idea of my character waking up in a hospital after being blown up in a car breaks the illusion, so I always restart after dying."
Voluntarily sitting through the lengthy system load screens every few minutes during a tricky mission, though? Sure, no dissonance there. The whole thing smacks of double think on his part, but I guess I can't really say for sure what anyone's thinking.

Autosave gives your actions weight, engaging you fully in the game, while simultaneously freeing you of unrealistic expectations of perfection.
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[Lymojo]

I will add the caveat that if a game implements autosave, it needs to allow you to recover from catastrophic errors in some reasonable way.
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[ninjafetus]

Lance, when I play MC my current 'goal' constantly varies. It might be to get more diamonds for future use. It might be to build something awesome. It changes.
What survival mode does is add elements of risk and reward to the game. It might be safer to stripmine for diamonds and avoid caves, but it's usually slower. Do I explore dangerous caves for speed and fun? Do I keep going down just one more branch before I head back home, and hope I don't overreach and lose everything?

It's basically the 'fun' parts of building up supplies/levels in an rpg, only in the end the reward I earn is my own awesome castle (or whatever else I want) instead of whatever specific, shitty story and "The End" screen the developed decided was a worthy carrot.

Your stance is the rpg equivalent of asking why people don't prefer to use gamesharks to get everyone level 100 instantly so you can just blow through the story. We're hardwired to be more proud of what we work for, illusion or not. It's like you don't understand videogames in general or something. Maybe you just don't understand the notion of choosing your own goal. I don't know, man.

[Dark Age Iron Savior]

I would probably never play a RPG or adventure game if they had enforced autosaves. That includes hybrid stuff like Deus Ex. Let me experiment.

why are you guys talking to vic.


so guys what do you think the Ghast is? Notch said it was based on the "most unfair mob" so if that's not misdirection, it is going to be....some kind of Creeper variant?
I think I've seen people speculate it can walk through walls but that seems pretty unfair if it can still explode. Maybe it's invisible in shadows or something?

[Seizure]

[Lance Boyle]

Okay let me put it this way.

How much appeal do you think Minecraft would have to someone who does not want to build something just for the sake of building something?

[Tulpa]

[Lance Boyle]

Tulpa, have you ever played KGB (a.k.a. Conspiracy)? That was an awesome game that did well with the unwinnable states concept.

[Tulpa]

See, I hate the idea of unwinnable states, particularly the sierra style of woops I walked to a screen to the left before pixel hunting on the screen to the right I have to reset the game now.
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[Lance Boyle]

Sierra did a lot of really stupid shit with deaths but I think it added a kind of magical unpredictability in their games.

It was mandatory for Colonel's Bequest to work and was charming in the Space Quest series.

Wait........ Sierra games don't frequently have unwinnable states. Nor do they frequently have pixel hunting.

The only company I can think of that did some seriously stupid bullshit with unwinnable states is Infocom.

[Lance Boyle]

However, yes, KGB does have unwinnable states but you will *know* when you fucked up without the game needing to tell you at the precise moment you made that error.

And since the game operates in REAL TIME if you don't figure your shit out quick you'll be fired from the KGB or murdered depending on the severity of your fuck-up.

EDIT: Also, it doesn't make you restart the entire game, rather you can restart from a saved game or the beginning of that chapter.

[Dark Age Iron Savior]

in the age of bugs, there is no such thing as a game with no unwinnable states.

[Intentionally Wrong]

[Lance Boyle]

[Intentionally Wrong]

[Intentionally Wrong]

You're not obligated to respond to threads on subjects you don't have any interest in, you know.

Do you know just how many threads I never respond to, because they don't interest me?
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JSNLV is frequently and intentionally wrong.

[Intentionally Wrong]

So many threads.
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JSNLV is frequently and intentionally wrong.

[Talbain]

[Tulpa]

I think maybe in my mind I am using unwinnable state to describe a very particular thing I remember from some Sierra Adventure game, where a better term would be an inconclusive state. You do not have the means to continue the game, yet you have not overtly failed, and this could be something you could not have foreseen for several hours. I guess I am just talking about terrible game design.
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[Seizure]

[The Blueberry Hill]

Can I take this discussion a step, or so, back? Lance what is a 'toy'? Is it not just something one plays a game with? Perhaps all videogames are better described as toys. The rules are what makes a game a game, and the rules are ultimately determined by the player.

[LandRoverAttack]

[shnozlak]

[ninjafetus]

[Lymojo]

Last time I saw my younger cousins they were playing some Playstation Star Wars game in capture the flag mode. However, they didn't care about the flag capturing at all. The reason they were playing in that mode was that it was the only one that featured enormous battle cruisers and swarm ships flying around engaged in battle. They would just fly around shooting at the (unkillable) cruisers, the AI ships, and each other. It was really kind of refreshing, even though these kids were rude little snots who could barely even be bothered to remember how we were related, let alone offer to let me play.
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[Tulpa]

[Lymojo]

This is the boxart I grew up with:
I was so terrified/enthralled by this game.

I still haven't beaten it!

EDIT: Whoops, wrong thread!

[bleak]

hell yeah!
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[bza]

Notch said something about cliffracers so I'm gonna assume the Ghast is a flying asshole monster that screams and explodes on you.
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[Dark Age Iron Savior]

oh man, yeah, that makes sense. Currently if I find myself trapped without any place to hide I just build up a small tower of wool or dirt or gravel or something, do the whole pole-sitting ascetic thing until the monsters are gone (or there's just Creepers I can punch in the head).

A monster that sweeps down shrieking in the middle of the night... *shiver*

That would be one step closer to making the Creepers into swamp dragons, though.

[Seizure]

What if they can destroy blocks like the player? Notch mentioned that he was thinking of eventually doing that.

[bza]

Yeah, a while back on IRC he said one of his goals is to have monsters busting blocks.

I... can't... wait.

D:
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[Lymojo]

WHAT A RELIEF that Lance is banned; now we don't have to talk about anything anymore. This thread can just idly sit here, everyone content in the knowledge that we all agree with each other.

[Dark Age Iron Savior]

I don't know man, I have a bunch of redstone ore and I don't want to make logic shit/traps and as far as I'm concerned the stuff sucks.

[Seizure]

[Intentionally Wrong]

I'm building a palace. This isn't finished yet.


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JSNLV is frequently and intentionally wrong.

[bza]

I totally called it. ghasts are flying jerks

http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/10/22/minecraft-halloween-update-preview-meet-the-ghasts/

Prepare your anuses
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[Lymojo]

[ninjafetus]

This is awesome. So excited for the update. :D

[Seizure]

that's a pretty awesome update

[bza]

Notch just posted some info on biomes for the update!

Also something about zombie pigmen throwing spears...

Best update or bestest update!?
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