I'm pretty certain he wrote that piece in response to Brutal DooM's growing popularity and the way it and self-proclaimed retro throwbacks have affected DooM's image as a whole.
Yeah, there's been a number of Brutal Doom articles as of late, and I think that was intended more as a counterpoint to it than anything else. _________________ twit
Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: a curiously familiar pit
Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:21 am
Dracko wrote:
I'm pretty certain he wrote that piece in response to Brutal DooM's growing popularity and the way it and self-proclaimed retro throwbacks have affected DooM's image as a whole.
P.S. The Deus Vult II creator has a YouTube channel which he sporadically updates about his progress on the new (final?) iteration of the WAD.
oh hey, i've played this wad! forgot the name until you mentioned it here. it was a while back and it was specifically multiplayer coop of that level in the second vid. it's pretty intense, especially since you're being chased the whole time by fire throwing genie baron assholes.
also why do people turn on anti-aliasing in their source port of choice? it looks incredibly fucking ugly. _________________
Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: a curiously familiar pit
Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:33 am
by the way, on the topic of brutal doom: it's a fun novelty, but it's not really doom. i personally hate how the blood splattering on the screen makes it impossible to see anything. i actually vastly prefer the pistol replacement, mostly because the rifle is actually useful. it's not like anyone seriously ever uses the pistol again after they find the shotgun. you guys are right about the levels not really being designed around the new weapon ideas though.
i've been playing a lot of wads lately, and Hard Doom seems to be the new hotness as far as weapon mods/enemy mods goes. on zandronum servers, it's usually set up 1 life or 2 lives co-op survival, without respawning health or ammo pickups. the enemies are the biggest changes. former humans are all replaced with super (and quad!!) shotgun zombies, which can easily kill in one hit. chaingunners now have two chainguns, demons have more health and are much, much faster. imps come in two flavors, the black "dark" imp which is pretty much the normal imp with a faster fire rate, and the flame imps, which have a spreading projectile. barons are now bruisers, more health, more aggressive and with huge spreading flame attacks and a really deadly ground flame attack. knights are belphegors, kind of the same but with a spread projectile and a large splash damage projectile. cacos now have homing projectiles like revenants. revs themselves are mostly unchanged. arachnotrons get a huge bullet hell spread plasma gun, which is super scary. cybers and spiders are pretty much the same, except cybers also get homing rockets. archvile fire now hurts you steadily when targetted on you, forcing you to take cover even when you would be safe in vanilla doom.
all the monster changes make them much, much more deadly. it's really not that uncommon for a group of people to be unable to even finish a level, even after a dozen attempts. it's rough. keep in mind most people are applying this wad to other, bigger wads. not necessarily the original doom/doom2/final doom maps.
have any of you played any chillax? it basically takes from the nuts.wad school of wad design and throws the player again huge rooms filled with stupid amounts of monsters. i'm talking like, 200 revenants, with archviles in cages providing cover. it's pretty nuts. people still play (and finish!) chillax maps though.
i wish more sb people played zandronum multiplayer. i'm on there a ton, usually playing stuff like all out war 2, ghouls vs humans, zombie horde or whatever has a lot of people. it would be great to get a ctf scrimmage going with some sb peeps. _________________
it does very little damage, its refire rate is slow, and worst of all it's inaccurate, making it quite capable of missing enemies that are 10 feet away from you. doomguy never had basic firearms training i suppose.
meanwhile chaingun's first bullet is 100% accurate and fires in pairs with faster cooldown if you stop firing. there is literally 0 reason to use the pistol once you get it.
also: i play zandronum multiplayer every so often but it's with the mizuumi crew on a private server, i'm not fond of hitting up public stuff. _________________ twit
Yeah, the pistol is the big weak spot in Doom's arsenal. Even the fist can become a useful weapon with the berserk pack, but there's nothing that saves the pistol.
Now Duke 3D has a very handy pistol. Though the individual shots are a bit weak, it has a high fire rate, high accuracy and it uses its own type of ammo.
I think it strikes a good balance of being a starter weapon that is often going to be benched in favor of other weapons, while still having enough going for it to actually be useful.
it does very little damage, its refire rate is slow, and worst of all it's inaccurate, making it quite capable of missing enemies that are 10 feet away from you. doomguy never had basic firearms training i suppose.
meanwhile chaingun's first bullet is 100% accurate and fires in pairs with faster cooldown if you stop firing. there is literally 0 reason to use the pistol once you get it.
While this is completely irrelevant in the context of Doom, this is actually quite realistic.
Anyway, I think an FPS is doing pretty good when it has 9 weapons and only one of them is obsoleted. _________________ Let's Play, starring me.
the brutal chaingun feels real nice and i like that you can keep it spinning TF2-style
(not that it needs any time to spin up, but it's a nice effect)
there's plenty more to it than just gore effects, even if it's mostly just novelty
you been playing doom for 20 years? yeah ok some fun new weird stuff isn't entirely unwelcome
there are great wads out there and a bunch of them certainly are more legit DOOM, but brutal doom is just a fun mod _________________ letterboxd | last.fm | steam
Doom’s hardly the cleanest of games, but it has a boyish charm to it - Doom is Eddie winking at you on the cover of an Iron Maiden album, Brutal Doom is a screaming face being pressed into a meat grinder on the cover of a Cannibal Corpse album.
i mean, i get what he's saying, but ehhhh... it's still pretty silly
of course, cannibal corpse is pretty silly (and repulsive for reasons that thankfully do not appear in brutal doom)
deus vult 2 certainly does rule, i think no rest for the living is by far the "most doom" canonical doom, and brutal doom is just a dumb-fun mod
i can enjoy all of this
(the article is good, don't get me wrong — i just want to say that one can understand doom and still enjoy brutal doom) _________________ letterboxd | last.fm | steam
Anyway, I think an FPS is doing pretty good when it has 9 weapons and only one of them is obsoleted.
I'd say the plasma rifle actually eclipses a lot of the other weapons in many situations, but you just don't usually have the ammo to treat it as a full on general purpose gun like the shotguns. So the weapon balance is partly held together by level design, which still speaks of Doom's quality, and how everything ties together to make it work.
Item placement probably gets a bit overlooked, and when you play a map that throws you just enough of everything, but never so much that you don't have concern towards health and ammo, it tends to stand out.
Anyway, I think an FPS is doing pretty good when it has 9 weapons and only one of them is obsoleted.
I'd say the plasma rifle actually eclipses a lot of the other weapons in many situations, but you just don't usually have the ammo to treat it as a full on general purpose gun like the shotguns. So the weapon balance is partly held together by level design, which still speaks of Doom's quality, and how everything ties together to make it work.
Item placement probably gets a bit overlooked, and when you play a map that throws you just enough of everything, but never so much that you don't have concern towards health and ammo, it tends to stand out.
Yeah this is definitely true, weapon balance is definitely a product of the item placement. _________________
Plasma Rifle also shares ammunition with the BFG, which can be a tough decision at times as the BFG will give you more bang for your buck in the right situation.
I'm not too fond of the travel time it has, though. I think that limits its effective range somewhat. _________________ twit
It hits everything visible onscreen at the moment of impact (...mostly, BFG physics are pretty weird and nuanced). If you want to hit things far away, you can just shoot it at a closer wall. _________________ Let's Play, starring me.
Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: a curiously familiar pit
Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 6:43 am
Hojulas wrote:
CubaLibre wrote:
Anyway, I think an FPS is doing pretty good when it has 9 weapons and only one of them is obsoleted.
I'd say the plasma rifle actually eclipses a lot of the other weapons in many situations, but you just don't usually have the ammo to treat it as a full on general purpose gun like the shotguns. So the weapon balance is partly held together by level design, which still speaks of Doom's quality, and how everything ties together to make it work.
Item placement probably gets a bit overlooked, and when you play a map that throws you just enough of everything, but never so much that you don't have concern towards health and ammo, it tends to stand out.
more like ssg eclipses a lot of the other weapons (at least if you're playing doom 2). it basically becomes the big workhorse for me, i only switch out in dire situations or if i need to take out something like a cyber or spider demon. i hardly ever find myself using the plasma rifle, generally i feel like the cells are better utilized for the bfg, during the times when you actually need the bfg. _________________
Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: a curiously familiar pit
Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 6:44 am
by the way, i hope no one buys the doom port for iphone. i think it's been out for a while but i just noticed it. it doesn't even include doom 2 and the controls are so awful it's made mostly unplayable. don't waste the money. _________________
more like ssg eclipses a lot of the other weapons (at least if you're playing doom 2). it basically becomes the big workhorse for me, i only switch out in dire situations or if i need to take out something like a cyber or spider demon. i hardly ever find myself using the plasma rifle, generally i feel like the cells are better utilized for the bfg, during the times when you actually need the bfg.
Well, I was talking more in base capability than in practical usage, since like I said, the sparse ammo limits the player's usage of it.
Aside from that, its major limitations are being projectile based as mauve said, which limits its capability at long range, and the cool down after firing, which makes it hard to use in bursts against spread out targets.
I don't get quite the same mileage a lot of folks do from the SSG.
It's still bread and butter to be sure, but I still give the standard shotty almost even usage, in some cases maybe even more.
I prefer it when dealing with weaker enemies, especially hitscanners, as they tend to be placed a bit more spread out to to limit infighting, and I consider the higher fire rate and the ability to conserve ammo when engage lone targets that can dropped with one shell better. And the SSG can get wasteful of ammo at not very far out, which causes me to often default to it when entering the unknown.
Basically, SSG has more power, SG has more versatility.
Plus, I just prefer the SG's sound, and the with the fire rate it just has a nice tempo to it. And 20 years in, I still get a little delight when I hit just right and drop a pinkie with only two shots, the SSG, while more efficient at that task, just doesn't evoke that same feeling.
Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: a curiously familiar pit
Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 6:37 pm
whatttt
honestly the ssg sound is at least half the reason i still play doom. i agree about the shotgun having more versatility though, it works pretty well as a sniper rifle. _________________
It's like, they have the same amount of money as all the other banks, they're just in the most heavily secure city in the United States. Rob a bank in Aberdeen or something. _________________ Let's Play, starring me.
Yeah, there's a bigger emphasis on amphibious combat this time around. They developed a water system that generates actual waves that can affect line of sight/be used as cover, be difficult to navigate, etc. You can now shoot while swimming. A few maps shown off have shown a lot of ships, small boats, and amphibious armored vehicles. Also, that ship crashing into the shore is a map specific multiplayer event. Not a cutscene from single player. it's just framed like a cutscene, for the trailer.
"the biggest request we got from developers is, make the controller better for shooting things, cuz that's the kind of games we make is just shooting people, over and over, so that's the kind of controller we want, with triggers like guns, and that is the next ten years of entertainment, brought to you by PlayStation 4: The Ultimate Raycasting Bullet Blaster. how many hitscan bullets can we simulate per second with the throughput of 8GB of GDDR5 RAM? well just you wait until november fifteenth when you are in THE KILL ZONE"
Man, forget being specific to shooters. Concave triggers makes holding the controller feel better, in general. All the Dualshock 3's in my family are equipped with trigger attachments.
Why is it always an element of the nationalist power fantasy that the US gets invaded by an utterly improbable force from fuck nowhere? Everyone has to be an underdog I guess. _________________ Let's Play, starring me.
Why is it always an element of the nationalist power fantasy that the US gets invaded by an utterly improbable force from fuck nowhere? Everyone has to be an underdog I guess.
I think the answer lies in this article I read bleary-eyed at 4 in the morning last night about the creator of Wonder Woman. _________________ metafilter vs. youtube comments
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