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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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 Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:34 pm |
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| Toptube wrote: |
| dementia wrote: |
| this looks like dog shit |
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-Wes
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:41 pm |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| Weş, you liked Lords of Shadow, so pardon me if I don't take your opinion as much. |
No problem! You can't stand God of War or Bayonetta and pretty much only like Devil May Cry. I have no idea why you thought Lords of Shadow would interest you.
Also: Uhh, it's an opinion about a video that lasts under a minute. Form your own opinion.
My issue is that the only point of interest in the video is something that can't possibly involve any sort of interactivity. How can anyone look at this and be impressed?
-Wes
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:34 pm |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| SuperWes wrote: |
| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| Weş, you liked Lords of Shadow, so pardon me if I don't take your opinion as much. |
No problem! You can't stand God of War or Bayonetta and pretty much only like Devil May Cry. I have no idea why you thought Lords of Shadow would interest you. |
Actually, i didn't hate Bayonetta, I just prefer DMC to it infinitely. God of War and LoS aren't even the same type of game, really.
And I picked up (actually a friend did, but with the same reasoning)LoS knowing it would be shit, and have be pleasantly surprised to find it shittier than i could've imagined. I really would love to hear your defense of it.
Curious how you could think a non-gameplay vid of a game could make said game look "like dog shit".
Personally, I am more hyped for this game out of liking the previous stuff from the developer, so whatever man. |
There are plenty of reasons not to like Castlevania. I liked it because it has good art direction, awesome tech, the mechanics are fun, and the tone is as close as I've seen to a Lord of the Rings/Braveheart style epic.
As for Binary Domain, the developer gives me hope that it might be decent, but I thought we were talking about this video, which doesn't inspire confidence.
-Wes
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:44 pm |
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What would you like me to say?
Can someone explain how I got roped into defending a quoted quote that I quoted?
-Wes
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:47 am |
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| Tulpa wrote: |
| What about Binary Domain "looks like dog shit" |
Mostly that the character design shows less creativity than bottom of the barrel shit like Brute Force.
Also:
-Wes
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:01 pm |
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| handsomenattou wrote: |
| SuperWes wrote: |
I liked it because...the tone is as close as I've seen to a Lord of the Rings/Braveheart style epic.
-Weş |
Holy fuck, there are people here who WANT more games like this?? |
I'll try to clarify this, but I'm not sure it matters. I don't have any sort of strong feelings toward this tone in particular, but I really do love the fact that the game is successful at establishing a strong tone. It's a hard thing to get right. For example, Oblivion tries this exact tone, but instead of coming off as epic it actually feels like generic fantasy mixed with "game engine tricks." Castlevania is successful, and I am impressed by that.
-Wes
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:17 am |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| SuperWes wrote: |
| There are plenty of reasons not to like Castlevania. I liked it because it has good art direction, |
Hey guys, this game takes place in the 9th century. Let's put Gothic arches (thought to be invented in the 13th century) and printed books (good job, nice lack of printing presses) everywhere. Oh, and steal the design for Pan from a del Toro movie. GOOD ART DIRECTION!
I have no idea what that even means
| Quote: |
| the mechanics are fun |
If button mashy combat and stupid overuse of poorly implemented QTEs is fun, sure! Also, let's not forget that incredible beast riding system!
| Quote: |
| and the tone is as close as I've seen to a Lord of the Rings/Braveheart style epic |
OK, so LotR and Braveheart are pretty much entirely different. Also, the tone of this game is closer to bad fanfic with way too much shitty text to explain crap that doesn't matter at all.
Really you have yet to explain at all what makes this a decent game. |
So I'm not sure how to respond to this except to say that I don't know how to convince someone who hates something that they don't hate it. It's an impossible task, and not one I'm up to.
I do think Castlevania is a good game. I tried to put it succinctly, but everyone jumped all over every word, so I'll try to do it even more succinctly. It's pretty and it's fun. That's my argument. Tear that bitch apart, because I enjoyed what I played of the game. It's not the best game ever, but if I had to choose between good and bad I'd pick good.
As for the Braveheart/LOTR comment, you guys are right. The two ARE very different, but the point I was trying to get across is that there is a feeling present in epic films that Castlevania captures better than any other game I can think of. Maybe tone isn't the right word, but when I told Toups it "feels like an epic," he brought up Dragon Quest 1, so my statement clearly wasn't being interpreted correctly.
At any rate, I don't really need to win this one. boojiboy7 wins! Congrats!
-Wes
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:16 pm |
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And that's why we can never agree on this. I like the aesthetics of Castlevania and I like the fighting engine. I even like the QTEs. I like that they usually only require timing and don't care what button you press. I also don't really understand your point about the button mashy combat. If all you do is button mash you'll never build up chains, never refill your magic, and die pretty quickly. BUT the fact that you hate God of War means that you're clearly going to hate Castlevania, even though, as you pointed out, they're very different games. The thing they have in common is that they're both about a journey and enjoying the way there.
I did think about why I liked it and I've tried to articulate why, but apparently nothing I've said has been good enough or will be good enough for you. And that should be ok. I could read 1,000,000 words on why SNK fighting games are the best, but I'll still think they're shit, and will never concede to anything. And that's where we are here.
I'll try again! I like the aesthetic. I like balancing dark and light magic, and trying to keep chains going. I like using the whip for a grappling hook even though it's all scripted (I basically like any game with a grappling hook). I like that the fighting engine provides a sense of impact. I like that this game could have been as awful as Dante's Inferno, but instead is closer to being as good as God of War. I don't like the fact that the game is about a journey forward, but requires you to backtrack for items. I don't like that the camera sometimes focuses on what looks best rather than what would be best for the game. I thought the riding sections were shit. I think that level where you have to wade through swamps should have been cut (or at least put later in the game).
But yes. You're telling me that I haven't thought about why I like it. I did think about it! I just can't articulate it very well, and honestly don't love the game or care about your opinion enough to try. Why would you play through 75% of a game you think is shitty?
-Wes
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:42 pm |
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| Predator Goose wrote: |
| Weş wrote: |
| (I basically like any game with a grappling hook). |
And yet you hate Lost Planet 2. Where the grappling hook is infinitely less restrictive and is not actually complete bullshit. You hate Lost Planet 2 and like Lord of Shadows.
(Also you should maybe not try to convince Booji that LoS is a good game right now. He (and I) are currently playing through it and absolutely nothing you could say could cut through the amount of bile he (we) have for it (chupacabra).) |
Wow! I'm being misinterpreted all over the place. Let me count the ways:
1. I'm not trying to convince Booji that LoS is a good game, I'm trying to explain why I like it. Enjoyment is subjective, and I enjoy it for the reasons I've stated. I'm not going to change anyone's mind, and I'm not trying to.
2. I never said I hate Lost Planet 2. I said I don't like it because it doesn't fit with my gaming lifestyle. I don't like that Lost Planet 2 is essentially online only. I don't like playing games online with people I don't know, and nobody I play with had any interest in Lost Planet 2. I did like the game a lot solo until I reached the Train stage, which is a 3 part stage with no checkpoints and isn't fun at all alone. It might be different with more people.
3. I did say that Lost Planet 2 demo was like "Monster Hunter for American sensibilities," and booj said, "it's nothing at all like Monster Hunter, you're an idiot," even though the game's creator thinks it's like Monster Hunter.
4. And this whole conversation started with me being asked to defend a quote from dementia that Toptube quoted. Which is something I don't get. And the thread is supposedly about this Binary Domain video, which certainly doesn't inspire confidence. (speaking of, this is what I should have quoted:
| Levi wrote: |
| Vote of no confidence. |
Because that's closer to my true opinion.
So booj, what is it about the Binary Domain character design that you like better than the Lords of Shadow character design? Is it the generic space marine? The generic robots? The frequent generic camera shots above the generic destroyed city? I'm not saying Binary Domain won't end up good, but the foundation displayed in this video doesn't exactly get me pumped. What is it about this video that has you so excited for Binary Domain that you felt the need to call me out?
-Wes
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:43 pm |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| But TOLL, it isn't just the Castle Castlevania itself (I don't even think the Castle is in this one, at least not yet). It's villages and shit, most of which are already ruins by the time Gaberiel gets to them. It's pretty great, in a horrible "Holy shit why didn't anyone notice this?" kind of way. |
It's pretty funny that you think nobody noticed. Isn't it obvious that they made their design decisions around what would look cool and project their desired tone rather than what would be historically accurate?
-Wes
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:22 pm |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| If they were going this route, why bother giving the game a year then? Why bother making a game take place in "history" at all? |
For the same reason all Castlevania games have always taken place in history, yet have all featured similar architecture.
Also: Do you realize you're complaining about Gothic design in a vampire game? I find it hilarious how obvious it is that your contempt for the game has made you incapable of looking at it from anything approaching a balanced perspective.
-Wes
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:47 pm |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
Weş actually said that me disliking a game is keeping me from liking a game. And he finds that funny. What...the...fuck?
Ugh, why am I bothering. |
In what way are you bothering? You didn't even read what I said.
-Wes
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:25 pm |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| SuperWes wrote: |
| I find it hilarious how obvious it is that your contempt for the game has made you incapable of looking at it from anything approaching a balanced perspective. |
What is this balanced perspective, Weş? What do you want? Because I don't think you understand how opinions on games work. |
I don't think you do. I've been telling you mine and you've been telling me that it's wrong.
I'm saying that because you don't like the game you seem to be more aggressively picky than you otherwise would be. Someone else already pointed out that other Castlevania games have things like hamburgers, robots, and flan, but they get a pass. We're talking about things much less blatant, like periods of architecture. People don't give a shit about things like that, and I guarantee you wouldn't either if it was in a game you actually liked. And yeah, I thought it was funny that you were complaining about Gothic Architecture in a vampire game.
It's useless to argue with you about anything though. If Kenji Inafune can say that Lost Planet 2 was inspired by Monster Hunter and you are unwilling to admit any commonalities, you're certainly not going to listen to me.
-Wes
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:11 pm |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
Can you read? In that link you posted, Inafune said he WASN'T ON THE TEAM THAT MADE THE GAME. KENJI INAFUNE DID NOT MAKE LOST PLANET 2.
Think about this.
I admitted plenty of commonalites. God, are you this illiterate in real life, or just on the internet?
As for the rest of your post, I have said as much. If a game is fun, yeah, I ignore shitty problems. When a game ceases to be fun (which this game did about 5 minutes in) I start tearing it apart. No shit, Weş, big revelation that I already spelled out. Good job!
And yes, shitty inaccuracies get a pass in other Castlevania games because (again, please learn to read) THEY ARE A JOKE as I already said. This game plays it all deathly fucking serious, which again, I have already said.
Also, there is nothing natural about Vampires and Gothic architecture. The two have been conflated by years of shitty uncreative vampire movies, and this game (again, learn to FUCKING READ) is largely NOT ABOUT VAMPIRES. In fact, you don't meet your first one until halfway through the game. Aside from that, though, as I said (again), I would like one inkling of fucking original thought put into this game, and there is NONE.
Is expecting them to even tie history into the game in even the barest way that previous CV games have done too much? Apparently. And this is made obvious by their incredible disregard for anything even coming close to clever, which the architecture and books act as a pretty good basic example of. Or HEY GUYS WE HAVE AN ELECTRICAL LAB BECAUSE FRANKENSTEIN HAS TO BE HERE, EXCEPT CYBORG SCORPION (oh wow, is that maybe creativity? lol).
So please, Weş, be happy with games that try nothing new at all. Have fun with that. |
Good! A post where we can finally settle this.
I realize Infaune was not on the team and I've known this all along, but he's closer to the project than either of us, and as one of the series creators his opinion carries more weight.
I realize you don't like the game. I'm glad that you realize this is where your nitpicking is coming from. I think that by focusing on these small details it weakens your overall argument. Plenty of games have these same small faults and are still great. What is it about this game that makes it stand out as being particularly awful? Is it really the gothic architecture?
Don't answer that question because you've made it clear. You don't like that the game borrows too much stuff. Personally, I can give that a pass. I prefer it when games are creative and unique, but I'm able to accept games as both art and craft. Castlevania is more of a craft game. It borrows elements from lots of movies and games and it combines them well to make something that I enjoy. I don't LOVE it, but it's been decent. Honestly, you've probably played more of it than I have. It's better than the other 3D Castlevania games at least, and I liked those as well (for various reasons).
Before you get all over my comments and say, "but the game is shit," just grant me that two people can view the same piece of art and come away with a different response. That's the case here. The end.
-Wes
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:20 pm |
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Tried the demo today. I'm super disappointed that you HAVE to play with a headset to communicate with your team. At E3 you could use buttons.
I'm also not totally satisfied with the control options in the demo. I like B for Melee X to reload. I want to use a face button for Melee, damnit!
Also: the demo locked up my Xbox.
Seems really good outside of that though!
-Wes
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SuperWes
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:23 am |
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| Moogs wrote: |
| You don't have to use a headset. Pressing the left bumper brings up the responses/commands you can give via face buttons. |
Ahh. See, I bet having a Kinect hooked up means I have a headset plugged in and can't use buttons. There were prompts showing up when I press L1, but no buttons associated with them.
-Wes
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