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luvcraft
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:47 pm    Post subject: Raters Gonna Rate    Reply with quote

Hello, selectbutton peoples!!

As I do every year, I lost interest in video games over the summer and became obsessed with pinball machines, but now it's nice and cold again and my thoughts return to the video games.

Things had been getting kinda weird at work, and I also was ready for a great leap forward, so a couple months ago I quit my job and went to work full-time on an exciting new web thingy.

reccr, the amazing automated video game recommender, is that thingy! Please come check it out, and use it, and bang on it, and let me know what you think of it, and what exciting things it needs in the future (I already have lots of exciting plans for it, but I'm always open to more suggestions)!

A few of you might remember the game recommender I was working on a few years ago; this is a complete rebuild of that from the ground up in Rails, and some of you (BenRen) will be happy to hear that the rating widget is now built entirely in CSS rather than Flash.

Also, what's this new "curate topic" option?
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:44 pm        Reply with quote

thanks, Takashi! Yeah, social aspect-ness has been requested a lot, so I think it's the next part I'm going to work on.

What sort of social aspects would you most like to see?
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:57 pm        Reply with quote

ah, ok, thanks botagel!
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:47 pm        Reply with quote

hooray! thanks for all the ratings, guys!

A bunch of Phoenix Wright games have now bubbled up to the top of my recommendation list, but my #1 recommendation is still ExciteBots.

BenRen, when I add social crap I'll keep it as opt-out-able as possible for you. :)
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:56 pm        Reply with quote

oops, Fahrenheit was in there twice and I zapped one that had two ratings, so if you rated it please rate it again. :)
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:38 pm        Reply with quote

Thanks! I just added PS2, Xbox, GC, and GBA over the last couple of days, and I'm not sure yet if I want to go earlier than that. If I do, I might just add the platform and not import the entire catalog of games, and just let people add the games they want to rate like I did with GBA.
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:38 pm        Reply with quote

glad to hear that the recommendations are good! :)

I have to approve all submissions before they go in, so hopefully I'll catch most of the confusion and redundancy. The site does track how many submissions you've had accepted, so once I start implementing social aspects I'll make that a "public" stat, but I want to avoid awarding people just for rating lots of games because I'm worried that I'll get people randomly rating things they haven't played just to get their "number of games rated" up.

Tags are a good idea; I'm planning way down the road to at least tag games by developer.

Search definitely does need some work; right now it's very very basic and literal. I should probably bump that to the top of my to-do list!

Thanks for the feedback!
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:51 am        Reply with quote

nothingxs wrote:
I can't find Protect Me Knight. This makes me sad.


add it!! XBLIG is one of the platforms that's in there! :)

Vehicular Manslaughter wrote:
When I tried to login via Facebook, and then was all "No, Don't Allow", it dumps me to:

http://reccr.comnew/

Which ah, doesn't resolve. Might be a temporary thing, I'm guessing that might not be the case as that URL doesn't look right at all.


yeah, that doesn't sound right. I'll look into it. thanks!

EDIT: Fixed! Thanks!
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Last edited by luvcraft on Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:29 am        Reply with quote

nothingxs wrote:
wait how do i add games what the f


right now the button to submit new games shows up when you search and there's either zero results or more than one result. I realize that's not the best place for it (or at least not the best ONLY place for it), but I'm not sure at this point where else to put it.
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:07 pm        Reply with quote

Persona-sama wrote:
Is there a way to specifically remove reccr from recommending me a genre of games in general? Because I am really getting tired of ignoring every FPS game popping up.

Also there seems to be a weird problem where if you're on an individual game's page and then try rating a game in the "similar games" section to the right, the response to that selection will appear below the game of the page (on the left), not of what you rated (on the right).


bug fixed! thanks, persona!

there aren't any genre tags yet, so for now ignoring is your only option (or giving low ratings to any that you might've played and hated).
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:06 pm        Reply with quote

can you point me to the new ps3 logo? I thought the spiderman one was the "official" one.
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:08 pm        Reply with quote

ghostribbon wrote:
BenoitRen wrote:
Personally, I prefer sites to not be bogged down by all this social crap.


Wait, do I have to have a Facebook/Twitter account to use this site?

:|


right now, yes. I've only gotten one request so far to add openID, and that was from someone who signed up with his Twitter account immediately after making the request.
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:18 pm        Reply with quote

I'm sorry you feel that way, BenRen. I was looking forward to your feedback, specifically any CSS / HTML5 gotchas since I know you're a contributor on SeaMonkey.

There's a note at the bottom of the sign-in page that explains why reccr uses Facebook and Twitter for authentication.
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:43 am        Reply with quote

glossolalia wrote:
i'll probably make a twitter account just to check this out but you might want to look into openID or this (some of it is outdated, but with a link to working code): http://www.manu-j.com/blog/add-google-oauth-ruby-on-rails-sites/214/


Yeah, I'm using the omniauth gem, so I can add google (and openID and several other things) pretty easily, and adding more authentication providers is on my to-do list. Now that people are asking for it more, I can bump it up higher on the list. Would adding Google be enough for everyone here who's having reservations about Facebook and Twitter?

antitype wrote:
I just signed back in via twitter since the facebook login was giving me this message:

Code:
{
   "error": {
      "type": "OAuthException",
      "message": "Invalid redirect_uri: Given URL is not allowed by the Application configuration."
   }
}


It worked fine the first time, though.


Oh, LOL, thanks for finding that for me; if you use www.reccr.com rather than just reccr.com Facebook complains. I just fixed that so either way should work now.

Joachim wrote:
any plans on adding super nintendo et cetera. support? only having gba and on is kind of lame.


I'm gradually adding more platforms, but I don't think I'll go back that far for a while. In the meantime you can "cheat" and list Virtual Console games as WiiWare games (maybe if we add Earthbound as a "coming soon" VC game and all vote it up and reccr gets really popular Nintendo will see all the love for it and finally release it :) ).

Tulpa wrote:
hyouko wrote:
Goddammit Reccr. Yes, I know I should play Deadly Premonitions; unfortunately there's no fully translated PS3 version. le sigh.

Overall its recommendations seem sensible, if possibly heavily influenced by what's popular amongst SB forumites.


I assume it is because most of the people using it right now are SBros.


I had about 40 users on there before I posted it here on SB, but you guys have been a lot more active than most of those previous users (which I greatly appreciate! :) ), so now the recommendations are WAY more SB-leaning than they were before. I'm totally fine with that, though, and I'm sure that as more users sign up it'll trend in other directions.
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:35 pm        Reply with quote

I've added Google and Yahoo to the available sign-in methods, and I've also added Windows "indie" games to the platforms so indie games can be added and have a link to TIGdb on their details pages instead of a link to Amazon like other Windows games.
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:56 pm        Reply with quote

Joachim wrote:
Quote:
I kind of think there shouldn't be compilations like that Castlevania one on there at all due to confusion/redundancy.

i'm inclined to agree with this sentiment.


OK, I've split up HoD and AoS.

Joachim wrote:
Quote:
An idea: allow users to view each others' profiles and invite to groups...? For an (obvious) example, we could have a group for SBers -- and groups could generate their very own recs for the user viewing it. Possible? I might be interesting to be able to seek out more tailored recs beyond those drawn from the collective pool of all users. Maybe something to consider implementing in the future, anyway.

yes, please.


Hmm, multiple friends lists and recommendation lists limited to a specific friends list... that's definitely doable, I'll add it to the to-do list! :)

antitype wrote:
Cool. If you're going to do that, how about Steam as a platform, too?


Yeah, Steam's on my list of platforms to add. I'll get it added pretty soon.
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:07 pm        Reply with quote

Hey guys! I've implemented tags on reccr. I was going to wait a little longer on implementing them, but someone found a major bug that was making the site reliably give bad errors to new users (oops!) and the version of the site I had that fixed that bug also implemented tags, so I just went live with that. They work great, so give them a whirl! Hopefully they won't be abused too much; most of what I was waiting for before implementing them was writing better guidelines on submitting tags (i.e. "make tags objective and not a comment on quality or otherwise editorialize").
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:23 pm        Reply with quote

ugh, I STILL can't decide whether or not I want to open the huge can of worms that would be involved in adding forums to reccr. Right now it looks like there aren't really any good forum plugins for Rails 3, so I'd have to write my own forum engine, and then, of course, I'd also have to moderate it. What do you guys think? Does reccr need forums, and if not, what would be a good substitute?
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:41 pm        Reply with quote

because rails forums would be easier to integrate with the rest of the site. Tell me what I should do instead of forums, wes!

The primary reason I want forums is for a "help and support and feedback" forum. I know that a lot of sites are in love with uservoice for doing "help and support and feedback forum" stuff, but uservoice costs money (which I'm trying to save as much as possible since reccr isn't making any yet), and I also don't like how unintegrated it is (for instance, users have to login separately to uservoice to post there).

The secondary reason I want forums is for the community aspect and to let users communicate with each other if they want. I know there are other ways to do that, but I'd like suggestions for what you think would be the best fit for reccr.

I'm starting to think that a good halfway point might be notes; letting users leave notes on the pages for games, and letting other users vote those notes up and down.
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:56 pm        Reply with quote

ah, I wasn't familiar with playfire. glancing at it I do see a few things that reccr could do similarly but better! thanks! :)
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:18 pm        Reply with quote

OK, people! Comments are live on reccr, as is the contact section which you can hopefully use to tell me if you find any bugs in the comments.

You're also welcome to tell me such things here! :)
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:08 pm        Reply with quote

yeppers. It is currently VERY SB.

although God Hand is only the 13th most popular game, and Demon's Souls is #16, so there's at least SOME outside influence. :)
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:01 am        Reply with quote

SBros, you have FAILED ME!! It took someone from Tigsource to point out that I'd accidentally left out Dreamcast!

but the good news is that now Dreamcast is in there, so you can submit Dreamcast games!
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:29 pm        Reply with quote

remote wrote:
I think the Dreamcast was one of the "older consoles" we were asking if you planned to add. :)


oh! Perhaps it was! I always forget that DC is the same "generation" as PS2 and Xbox and Gamecube, since it came out so much sooner than the other three. But then a new user submitted Shenmue with no platforms listed (because its platform wasn't on the list!) and I suddenly realized the error of my ways and added it real quick.
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:24 am        Reply with quote

got a ton of new users today, and I also changed the recommendation algorithm significantly, so please check your recommendations and let me know how they're looking now! Thanks!
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:55 pm        Reply with quote

Added Steam and Mac Steam to the platforms!
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:36 pm        Reply with quote

thanks, benren!

fixed the padding: auto. That must've been left over from something I was doing before.
rails uses prototype by default
I've heard that tables for layout get a lot of hate from the current web design crowd, but I've found them to be a whole lot more flexible and useful than div tags in a lot of situations.
Can you explain to me why "the correct way" is to use em rather than b for bolding things? I've heard that a lot, but don't understand why.
all the self-closing tags that are in there are generated by rails
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:53 pm        Reply with quote

guys please rate Bullet Witch KTHXBYE!
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:13 pm        Reply with quote

I've added a simple "friends" feature (which basically lets you follow users, and set who can see your ratings).

so, here a link to my profile, which you can use to follow me. This is super-minimal at the moment, so please let me know what other "friends" features you'd like to see. For anyone GRIPPED BY FEAR OF SOCIAL MEDIA, I want to point out that your ratings visibility defaults to "friends only", so nobody can see your ratings unless you friend somebody or set the visibility to "everyone", and even if you do friend some people you can STILL prevent them from seeing your ratings by setting visibility to "only me".
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:06 am        Reply with quote

remote wrote:
How can I add Android to a game that appears to only allow me to check non-portable platforms?

http://reccr.com/corrections/new?game_id=2803

Pac-Man CE is also available for the Android... Should I just make a separate entry?


separate entry, please! thanks! :)
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:43 pm        Reply with quote

Endless wrote:


Look at how much room it frees up as well


that IS very pretty, but it would require creating custom "letterboxed" images for all 7,700+ games in the system, and also unfortunately it kinda de-emphasizes the top row, which is contrary to what we want. :(

Zigfried wrote:
Now that some ratings have actually come in from a bunch of people, I think I'm going to start using this to decide what game to play (and review) next. Looks like Xbox Ketsui unless something changes!

Bullethell will be a relief from my present hell of Ephemeral Fantasia.


Hooray! Let me know how accurate the recommendation is! :)

My top 5 recs are currently Castle Shikigami 3, Resonance of Fate, Red Steel 2, Blazblue CS (which is surprising since I gave the first BB 2 stars), and Dreamfall. Flower, Sun, and Rain and 999 also keep flitting in and out of my top 5.
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:32 am        Reply with quote

IIOIOOIOO wrote:
Oh, also, also: Create a way for netflix users to "friend" reccr on netflix. You will find correlations between movie tastes and game tastes. That's a cool feature: Tell me you name on netflix and I will recc games.


Unfortunately there's not really any way for me to add reccr associations to Netflix, since they are a different company. Thanks for all the suggestions, and please keep rating games! :)


Last edited by luvcraft on Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:21 am        Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
luvcraft wrote:
@420: Unfortunately there's not really any way for me to add reccr associations to Netflix, since they are a different company. Thanks for all the suggestions, and please keep rating games! :)

I think you misunderstand what he's saying. Netflix ran a contest recently asking for people to improve their suggestion algorithm. You can find a list of who wrote the top 10 algorithms and contact one of those losing teams to use their shit in reccr. It'll be better than yours and potentially free. And you can't be affiliated w/ Netflix to do this.

-Weş


No, there's a later message where he suggests that I should link peoples' profiles from Netflix to reccr, which I can't do because I'm not Netflix.
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luvcraft
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:35 pm        Reply with quote

Sorry, some combination of the way you wrote that first reply and the way I read it make me think you didn't know what you were talking about, and had never actually used reccr. This new reply is a lot more coherent.

IIOIOOIOO wrote:
But seriously, and I mean no offense by this, the likelihood is high that your result accuracy will degrade as your network grows more dense. Both as more users enter the system and as individuals rate more games. Your accuracy will end up lower than 20% r-squared. Eventually, you will end up with everyone being recommended hentai games because they like STGs. You will struggle spectacularly with people who have multiple niche genre interests as those interests largely have poor inferential value from one to the next. As I said, it appears (from reported false hits) that your engine largely relies on "similar profile inference."


On the contrary, so far I've found that the recommendations are getting better as more users join. For a long time my wife's top recommended game was 50 Cent: Blood on the Sand, but last weekend we got a surge of over 100 new users and now her recommendations look a LOT better, and include things that are much more in-line with her tastes. There are still some things in there that I don't think she'd like, but it's much more likely that she'd like them than 50 Cent, and as more users join and rate games I suspect those will fade from her recommendations list, too.

Can you explain to me where "20% r-squared" is coming from?

And are you suggesting that it will get better for a while, but then at some point I'll hit some critical mass and the recommendations will start to get worse? Can you explain to me how that would happen?

IIOIOOIOO wrote:
Will your engine ever be able to predict whether a person will enjoy a game that just came out and almost nobody in your network has played? Nope.


Yes. If 1% of ALL of the users on reccr have rated a new game, then reccr will have enough data to start recommending it. If by "your network" you mean "a user's friends", then I should clarify for you that reccr friends lists are purely for seeing what your friends have rated and how similar your tastes are to theirs; reccr makes recommendations based on the tastes of EVERY user in the system, and your friends list isn't factored into it at all.

(Unfortunately, that means that remote's suggestion from a while back of having group-specific recommendations is not doable at this time.)

IIOIOOIOO wrote:
Will your engine ever be able to understand that a user JUST DOESN'T LIKE some type of game?


Yes. Although reccr's recommendation algorithm ignores tags, if a user has given DoDonPachi and Espgaluda low ratings, then reccr will probably not recommend them Ketsui, since it has similar ratings to those other two. As far as I can tell this will only improve as more users join and more ratings are added to the system. Some games will slip through the cracks, but I actually WANT that; 7 years ago I unilaterally dismissed all first-person-shooters because I'd played a lot of them I didn't like, and hadn't played any that I loved. It wasn't until a friend practically forced me to play HL2 that I realized they could be good, and I hope that reccr can do that for people; say "yeah, I know that you hate everything else in this genre, but I think you'd actually love this game, so why don't you give it a try?"

IIOIOOIOO wrote:
I appreciate new projects and I very much hope that you succeed. Please be willing to learn from those that came this way before you.


I appreciate your concerns and feedback, now that I understand what you're saying better! :)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:18 pm        Reply with quote

Wow, TheUser, thanks for the 136 new submissions! :)

TheUser wrote:
How are you treating DLC like GTA4's Lost and the Damned and the Ballad of Gay Tony? Those are just examples.


Major DLC like that usually gets its own entry, as with the two major WoW expansions you submitted.

TheUser wrote:
N+ for DS and PSP are very different.


For now you can note that in the comments, as you did. If there are enough comments along the same lines, or your comment gets a lot of upvotes, I'll split it into two separate games. This and DLC are two of the things that I don't have hard rules for yet, and am just looking at on a case-by-case basis, because I don't have enough "cases" yet to decide on rules. :)

TheUser wrote:
Do you do any notifications when/if submitted games are added? I'd like to know what to come back and rate, but I wasn't keeping track of my submissions.


No, but I need to add that!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:22 pm        Reply with quote

IIOIOOIOO wrote:
As a starting point for your exploration, check out this article:
http://blog.smellthedata.com/2009/06/netflix-prize-tribute-recommendation.html

I think it does a good job of taking a complex problem and posing it in simple terms... especially for a developer. Read it, and the commentary, and you will see several techniques named which are worth investigating.

Also, good luck. I look on with interest.


thanks! I'll take a look at that and also do some work on figuring out in advance how reccr will behave with lots more data.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:32 am        Reply with quote

TheUser wrote:
luvcraft wrote:
TheUser wrote:
Do you do any notifications when/if submitted games are added? I'd like to know what to come back and rate, but I wasn't keeping track of my submissions.


No, but I need to add that!


Also, what if people can give their rating when they submit. If and when you accept the game, it immediately becomes rated by them.


oh! that's a great idea! why didn't I think of that before? :)

I'll try to get that added tomorrow.
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Location: Cobrastan

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:38 am        Reply with quote

OK, I've added the "Featured Games" feature to reccr, which is basically as close as I intend reccr to get to advertising. I want more games to fill out the "Featured Games" roster, so if you're somehow involved in the development or publication of a game and would like to have it featured for free for a couple months, let me know! I'm making a special effort NOT to give the games I've made any preferential treatment on reccr, so I'm keeping my games out of the featured games list until I reach the totally arbitrary number of 10 other featured games.
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luvcraft
buy my game buy my game me me me


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Cobrastan

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:49 am        Reply with quote

TheUser wrote:
I'm definitely enjoying playing with the system. It's recommending me a bunch of stuff with which I'm unfamiliar - Mushihime-sama Futari, Espgaluda II Black Label, Ninja Bros. 忍者ブラザーズ, Jazz Jackrabbit 2: The Secret Files, and Johnny Platform's Biscuit Romp are my top five. I should try some of the games it recommends to see how good it's doing.


Those sound like great recommendations! You can at least get demos of Ninja Bros and Johnny Platform. (Both of their "details" pages will link to their Xbox Marketplace pages where you can add the demos to your Xbox's download queue via the webpage.)

TheUser wrote:
Now, which 136 games were those that I submitted so I can go rate them...


I think you submitted everything except the two most recent games on the latest additions list... and 38 other games since the latest additions list only covers the 100 latest additions. :)

Oh, in other news, after reading IIOIOOIOO's last comment I wrote a tool to determine the accuracy of the recommendations, and it's currently a little over 80% accurate, which I think is pretty good. I'm going to keep an eye on it and see if it increases or decreases as I get more users.
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luvcraft
buy my game buy my game me me me


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Cobrastan

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:53 pm        Reply with quote

luvcraft wrote:
TheUser wrote:
luvcraft wrote:
TheUser wrote:
Do you do any notifications when/if submitted games are added? I'd like to know what to come back and rate, but I wasn't keeping track of my submissions.


No, but I need to add that!


Also, what if people can give their rating when they submit. If and when you accept the game, it immediately becomes rated by them.


oh! that's a great idea! why didn't I think of that before? :)

I'll try to get that added tomorrow.


...and by "tomorrow", I of course meant "next Tuesday". Gah, sorry, it's been a week full of the dramas, but I finally got ratings added to the new submissions page! Thanks for the suggestion!
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luvcraft
buy my game buy my game me me me


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Cobrastan

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:08 pm        Reply with quote

Alright my SB peoples, I've finally caved and added 8 more platforms to reccr, going all the way back to 16-bit systems (except the Jaguar, because LOL). So if there are some psx / snes / genesis games you've been aching to rate, now you can (but you'll probably have to add them first unless someone else already added them).
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