|
View previous topic :: View next topic
|
| Author |
Message |
Talbain
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
|
 Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:55 am |
  |
|
Missile should be a hyper combo. Dog Justice.
_________________
 |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
 |
Lasakon
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Oregon Trail
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:32 am |
|
|
list thread
Capcom
1.Gene
2.Yamato Man
3.Carlos Miyamoto
Marvel
1.Black Panther
2.Jubilee
3.Frankencastle or Devil Dinosaur
_________________
 |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
nothingxs
various methods of escape
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Miami, FL
|
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
nothingxs
various methods of escape
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Miami, FL
|
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
Rud31
forum ruler of Iraq
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: SanAnTex
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:09 am |
|
|
Oh good MvC3 has the same shitty matchmaking as SFIV so I can't find anyone to play with a good connection because it defines location by your PSN account and not by your IP.
_________________
My Hawt Blog Vita Games
THERE ARE DEFINITELY WORSE VIDEO GAME PODCASTS |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
nothingxs
various methods of escape
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Miami, FL
|
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
Pat the Great
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
|
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
kiken
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
|
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
Deets
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:27 am |
|
|
| Texican Rude wrote: |
| Oh good MvC3 has the same shitty matchmaking as SFIV so I can't find anyone to play with a good connection because it defines location by your PSN account and not by your IP. |
Man it's a thousand times worse than SFIV's holy god
At least SFIV has the decency not to kick you out to the main menu every 5 seconds |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
nothingxs
various methods of escape
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Miami, FL
|
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
BotageL
pretty anime princess
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: *fidget*
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:31 am |
|
|
i think i saw jebailey tweeting that earlier, i blame him
_________________
http://www.mdgeist.com/ |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
Rud31
forum ruler of Iraq
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: SanAnTex
|
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
P1d40n3
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Location: Rain
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:55 am |
|
|
Got hankering for some fightmans.
Realized my fightmans are packed up in a storage shed.
;-;
_________________
| Gorblax wrote: |
| Consider me a bronycorn |
| Adilegian wrote: |
| The secret of the 53% is that they have more powerful wizards |
|
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
negativedge
banned
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:01 am |
|
|
| kiken wrote: |
| Nobody ever remembers Vanessa von Schneider (certainly not CAPCOM). :( |
whoa this is actually a really good idea |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
ionustron
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:39 pm |
|
|
| P1d40n3 wrote: |
Got hankering for some fightmans.
Realized my fightmans are packed up in a storage shed.
;-; |
you know what to do. |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
Duckzero
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Microsoft Land
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:29 am |
|
|
| negativedge wrote: |
| kiken wrote: |
| Nobody ever remembers Vanessa von Schneider (certainly not CAPCOM). :( |
whoa this is actually a really good idea |
She would be a great compliment to C. Viper. As a matter of fact, they are a little similar.
_________________
Keepin' it real like Oatmeal |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
analogos
bravely default crying fairy
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:28 am |
|
|
 |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
Persona
unaustically orificial
Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Location: Xibalba
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:31 am |
|
|
Capcom cancels Poison's gender due to lack of fan participation.
_________________
 |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
Lasakon
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Oregon Trail
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:56 pm |
|
|
I'm pretty sure they already back pedaled on this so it's one less thing to get outraged at capcom about.
_________________
|
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
Pat the Great
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:30 pm |
|
|
3s discussion going on in the spicybalm thread is being migrated over here.
first, nothingxs:
| Quote: |
Pretty much the argument circles around this: there were already ways in games like SF2 to get yourself out of trouble that you couldn't completely cover with a parrying-oriented option select. Parrying carries no inherent risk when executed properly (flashing blue and successfully parrying a move has 0 risk attached to it; the risk lies in executing it properly but that can be covered with option selects like SGGK). Other defensive systems like dodging, rolling and even just defense (CvS2, not Garou: MotW) carry risks attached to them.
Parrying does not. Parrying exists because previous options to get out of things, like the Shoryuken, were considered too... I don't know. Non-universal? No one knows. Before, when you were in a really bad situation, you put your footsies to work, played good defense and relied on a good reversal to help you escape. Sometimes you just had to block long enough until the opportunity came around for a good throw attempt. When someone put you in a bad position, the bad position meant something. You had to claw your way out of the bad position through superior play. Having no life was terrifying, because it meant you had to suddenly become super-elusive and impossible to touch for as long as it took for you to kill your opponent. In 3S, you can take the Daigo way out. (Easy? Not entirely, but not really difficult either when you know it's coming.)
The idea is that some characters were unique because they could get out of those situations easier, while others had to do it in different ways. Honda's solution to getting rushed down is inherently different to Ryu's and Blanka's and Vega's and Bison's. If parrying exists, everyone has a universal out, and it's usually the best move available.
Let's not even go into how parrying eliminates the long-distance game and how characters like Dhalsim and Vega can't exist in a game like 3rd Strike... |
Then, me:
| Quote: |
sweet, now we can talk about 3s!
i do think that the parry mechanic dumbs down the "oh crap, how do i get out of this situation" part of a street fighter game and pretty much makes fireballs Things You Do To Help You Hit Confirm. i never played 3s seriously (relative to the other fighters i took seriously, that is), so i just kind of got stuck in this middle-ground where i could beat scrubs and random my way to victory against the local good players every now and then, but i fundamentally missed a few things (common parry timings in pressure setups, hit-confirming off supers off c.mk or c.mp, yun) that i just never bothered with. from what i recall, 3s has an interesting meta-game where sometimes Parrying Is The Thing To Do and sometimes not-parrying is in vogue, so my scrubby ken/yun/chun could occasionally pick up a win or two just because i wasn't parrying when everyone else was. i felt like there was this long intermediate-level trudge where you were still getting good at stuff, but trying that stuff was making you lose to someone who just kept it simple. present in all fighting games, certainly, but much moreso in 3s than cvs2 or ST.
the nice thing about the parry mechanic is that you can all of a sudden design all kinds of crazy characters with minimal regards to practicality (particularly in regards to fireballs) and then jack up the risk/reward maps on characters that need parry just a little bit more than others do. you can make bottom-tier characters somewhat viable, because if you can parry, you can land their good shit (Q). you can make characters that rely on non-stop aggression, like makoto, who has crazy damage potential because all her stuff is high-damage mixups that feed her command throw (which you can't parry or IIRC tech, making it harder to get out). you can make characters like Urien, who basically wins because parry just doesn't quite work against him once he has his setups going.
like guilty gear, 3s expands the basic character design skeleton so everyone has the overhead and the parry, which gives the characters more freedom for their movesets. it doesn't feel quite as meaningful a freedom as guilty gear because everyone has to get good at parrying before their character-specific stuff comes into play--it kind of feels at first like you're learning how to parry, then do your character-specific combo or whatever. but i think it yielded a set of characters with far more potential and personality than the SFIV new challengers have. considering how conservative street fighter iterations can be, i think it did a pretty good job changing things up a bit. |
_________________
-pat m.
twitter |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
BotageL
pretty anime princess
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: *fidget*
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:19 pm |
|
|
The more I learn about what little skill I have at fightman games and what clicks with my playstyle, the less I want anything to do with Third Strike. I think it's a great looking, great sounding game, but I am not interested in playing it at all. It's kind of like me & SF4, except for completely different reasons (and one of these games actually gets play).
_________________
http://www.mdgeist.com/ |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
Sniper Honeyviper
Joined: 30 Aug 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:23 pm |
|
|
I love 3S, but I just can't parry anything no matter how much I practice, so the online scene would be meaningless to me.
If only the command was the same direction as for blocking, like in Garou. Though I guess they wanted more of a risk/reward mechanic. |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
BotageL
pretty anime princess
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: *fidget*
|
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
Sniper Honeyviper
Joined: 30 Aug 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:32 pm |
|
|
Yeah, I prefer Garou to 3S simply because it's not entirely inaccessible if you can't master Just Defend. Which ends up happening on pure reflex a lot, anyway.
Last edited by Sniper Honeyviper on Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
mauve
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:32 pm |
|
|
| Garou Just Defend is pretty great because you get even more safe option selects than with 3S's parries, seeing as how screwing up just means you block instead of walking into their fist! |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
allensmithee
polyglamorous
Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Location: wherever it is, im dying to get out
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:36 pm |
|
|
Yeah, it actually seems a bit better in that way.
NothingXS would you say Garou is a better game?
I like the Garou more!
_________________
 |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
Sniper Honeyviper
Joined: 30 Aug 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:42 pm |
|
|
| Going on my limited technical knowledge of fightmans, I would say 3S is a better designed game, but it's so much harder to get into. SFIV ditched parrying for a reason. |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
Deets
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:09 pm |
|
|
quit complaining
play more |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
Pat the Great
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:16 pm |
|
|
| Sniper Honeyviper wrote: |
| Going on my limited technical knowledge of fightmans, I would say 3S is a better designed game, but it's so much harder to get into. SFIV ditched parrying for a reason. |
It did indeed ditch parrying for a reason, but I'd be willing to bet a good chunk of that reason was "let's bring back the fireball/dp game back, guys".
The classic SF2WW cast is largely irrelevant in a game with strong parrying. Ken/Ryu/Akuma are basically good because their c.mk and c.mp are the new fireballs, and Chun got a whole new poking game plus a high-damage super that she didn't really have in quite the same way pre-3s. Guile's sonic boom pressure is gone, many of Gief's pokes (not to mention his lariat) are far less threatening, Honda's butt splash and torpedo can't control space, Blanka's ball is even more punishable...the list goes on. If Capcom wanted to bring their iconic characters back in something resembling their old form, they had to ditch parrying.
Of the mid-2000s trinity of SF titles (Super Turbo, 3s, CVS2), 3s is by far the easiest to enter.
ST demands incredible matchup-specific knowledge (which moves can you use against Dhalsim? How do you deal with fireballs?) plus a stupid execution barrier (You'll lose to a scrubby tick-throw Dhalsim if you can't consistently reversal anything).
CVS2's matchup knowledge is less deep but far more broad, as you're dealing with 6 different versions of each character in the game, and its execution barrier (either you learn to consistently roll cancel and land A-groove 90% chip custom combos, or you get so fucking good with K/P groove that it doesn't matter) is absolutely insane.
3s has a pretty small cast (especially considering how often you see someone besides ken/chun/yun), and learning how to play the game in the beginning largely consists of learning the various high/low/throw mixups and finding out how parry complicates things. i think the big thing is that you have to learn when you need to parry and when you don't need to parry, and parrying is more often something you do because you expect something, not something you do on reaction.
_________________
-pat m.
twitter |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
nothingxs
various methods of escape
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Miami, FL
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:33 pm |
|
|
K/P groove? No. The way it works is you pick either A-groove because you like winning, C/N-groove because you like flexibility, or K-groove because you're nuts or just want to eliminate all the systems that would prevent you from punching people in the goddamn mouth with Sagat.
3rd Strike is a better designed game than Garou: Mark of the Wolves. Just Defend is actually more broken than parrying in that you can actively CANCEL out of Just Defend with a move, which makes it ridiculous. Then there's Garou feint combos...
_________________
select button
i've gotta let go. i've gotta get straight. why'd you have to make it so hard? let me get away.
3DSFC 1736-1476-0518 |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
negativedge
banned
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:07 pm |
|
|
K groove is completely viable in CvS2 ok. So is C groove. And N and P groove have certain teams designed for them.
come home CvS2 :(
but yeah I can't roll cancel fuck that game |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
nothingxs
various methods of escape
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Miami, FL
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:06 pm |
|
|
You're talking to someone who still plays the game at LEAST a couple of times a week.
A is the best groove in the game, hands down, because activation is ridiculous and combos are way too good. An easy fix to A groove would just be to hilariously nerf the damage on combos and make A groove do no chip damage when activated, and it'd suddenly be pretty balanced.
C groove is great because it's super-flexible and a lot of teams work fine in it. A lot of that flexibility is unfortunately imparted by roll canceling.
K groove is insanely strong. It's considered the second best groove in Japan because JD is an AMAZING mechanic; you can completely eliminate chip damage and give yourself a lot of meter (which is VERY important in K). Additionally, JDing after activation completely screws up a lot of timing for A groove combos, which means that what used to be one of the biggest weaknesses of the groove (no alpha counter to escape CCs with) can be compensated by preventing CCs from happening properly in the first place. The extra damage and defense for being in K in the first place help, and so does the huge buff to both when you're raged.
N groove is C groove's little brother where you can do pop tricks and you can run, which makes shotos and Iori very happy.
P groove is pretty much ass and S groove is played only by Dr. B.
_________________
select button
i've gotta let go. i've gotta get straight. why'd you have to make it so hard? let me get away.
3DSFC 1736-1476-0518 |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
mauve
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
|
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
Pat the Great
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:27 pm |
|
|
| nothingxs wrote: |
You're talking to someone who still plays the game at LEAST a couple of times a week.
A is the best groove in the game, hands down, because activation is ridiculous and combos are way too good. An easy fix to A groove would just be to hilariously nerf the damage on combos and make A groove do no chip damage when activated, and it'd suddenly be pretty balanced.
C groove is great because it's super-flexible and a lot of teams work fine in it. A lot of that flexibility is unfortunately imparted by roll canceling.
K groove is insanely strong. It's considered the second best groove in Japan because JD is an AMAZING mechanic; you can completely eliminate chip damage and give yourself a lot of meter (which is VERY important in K). Additionally, JDing after activation completely screws up a lot of timing for A groove combos, which means that what used to be one of the biggest weaknesses of the groove (no alpha counter to escape CCs with) can be compensated by preventing CCs from happening properly in the first place. The extra damage and defense for being in K in the first place help, and so does the huge buff to both when you're raged.
N groove is C groove's little brother where you can do pop tricks and you can run, which makes shotos and Iori very happy.
P groove is pretty much ass and S groove is played only by Dr. B. |
I don't think anyone is disagreeing about the relative advantages or disadvantages of each groove.
S-groove Team Peachy ftw.
_________________
-pat m.
twitter |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
negativedge
banned
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:05 pm |
|
|
man this CvS2 talk is making me so sad :(
I wish I had people to play that game with again :(
man I can't roll cancel or do a single A groove combo and I still love the damn thing |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
BotageL
pretty anime princess
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: *fidget*
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:13 pm |
|
|
He changed the name, huh? Somehow the development timeframe seems really short considering the stage the engine was at a year ago, even if most of the art was done a long time ago...
Should probably order a copy to put on my Doujin Fightman Shelf of Shame beside BBB1 and Ogon (and Higurashi Daybreak, and the Groove on Fight followup).
e: Ohhhhhhh boy. This is... yeah.
_________________
http://www.mdgeist.com/ |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
mauve
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:29 pm |
|
|
| BotageL wrote: |
He changed the name, huh? Somehow the development timeframe seems really short considering the stage the engine was at a year ago, even if most of the art was done a long time ago...
Should probably order a copy to put on my Doujin Fightman Shelf of Shame beside BBB1 and Ogon (and Higurashi Daybreak, and the Groove on Fight followup).
e: Ohhhhhhh boy. This is... yeah. |
I get the feeling they have been working on this ever since the original team split up, but needed funding to finish it. Hence cashing in with the Touhou Castlevania games.
This game actually seems really fun so far, but that's probably because I haven't figured out how to break it into a million pieces yet. Fully expecting a serikamo video within the next day showing several infinites.
If nothing else, the music's pretty hype.
Really, though, I figure it can't be as bad as Ougon was. That game was like they took every cliched insult about anime games and them jammed them all together, as if to proudly exclaim "oh yeah, we got that too!" |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
BotageL
pretty anime princess
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: *fidget*
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:59 pm |
|
|
What kind of bugs me about BBB2 so far is a couple of things, from dicking around for 15 minutes:
Rather than actually trying to make the crazy mish-mash of game systems in BBB work, they simply removed them all entirely. (The Mass Effect 2 of fightman games.) The trademark Hokuto no Ken/Arcana Heart-style dash cancels have been entirely removed for everyone except Rouga, and they have massive startup now for him. Some characters still have their status-boosting taunts on the D button, sort of like a Blazblue Drive, but only a couple of the characters have those at all. And never mind the silly Art of Fighting-style power meters, or the charge that let you exchange life for attack power. Yeah, that shit didn't really work, but it was cool as hell!
Maybe I just ain't played a true Anime game in a while, but the game just doesn't feel all that flexible, particularly the huge window of time between when you start an airdash and when you can cancel it into moves and the slow-feeling specials and weird hit-states.
Oh, and I think it's really funny that they only completed graphics for two additional characters in all of that time. And based on timestamps from the first test version, before Aja packed any of the game data up, a lot of the graphics for Miyazato's Funky Crew were done years ago anyway.
(and I don't trust that training mode to be teching like it oughta -- there's something really weird about stuff like doing Ren's throw, then comboing into 623B grab that just feels wrong)
_________________
http://www.mdgeist.com/ |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
mauve
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:38 am |
|
|
I'm entirely okay with back to basics, honestly. I like basic footsies fighters and the whole "GO CRAZY WITH MECHANICS" silliness is what led us to garbage like Ougon and SWR.
The Ren thing seems fine, you can combo into that move anyway.
Pretty sure we're running on insufficient information as far as mechanics are concerned, though. I looked over the manual and while there is information on guard cancels, bursts, etc, it also doesn't even cover some things, like Big Bang Mode (A+B+C at 3 stock) is never mentioned. So yeah. Day one demo theoryfighting with incomplete manuals, let's go. |
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
nothingxs
various methods of escape
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Miami, FL
|
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
Persona
unaustically orificial
Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Location: Xibalba
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:58 am |
|
|
| BotageL wrote: |
| Should probably order a copy to put on my Doujin Fightman Shelf of Shame beside BBB1 and Ogon (and Higurashi Daybreak, and the Groove on Fight followup). |
Wait, there was a doujin Groove on Fight follow up? Not Glove on Fight but Groove on Fight?
Welcome to the top post.
_________________
|
|
| Filter / Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
