[Pat the Great]

She-Hulk/Haggar/Phoenix Wright. TEAM LAW AND ORDER
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-pat m.
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[nothingxs]

She-Hulk needs a forward-moving assist to be effective. Neither of those characters provide that.
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[BotageL]

We know absolutely nothing about Wright's moveset, bro.
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[Pat the Great]

i'm hoping he can call godot for OPTIC BLAST.
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-pat m.
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[nothingxs]

[BotageL]

oh okay i see SOMEBODY is mr. srk illuminati now >:|
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[Pat the Great]

also, carriers suck and you're still trying to make them work
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-pat m.
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[BotageL]

hot new technology
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[nothingxs]

[RobotRocker]

[mauve]

Well, so much for that.

Also: bonus infinite.

[option]

Those stage backgrounds are so boring.

[nothingxs]

trust me, so is the game
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3DSFC 1736-1476-0518

[Booter]

[BotageL]

[mauve]

[BotageL]

[Loki Laufeyson]

arcana heart 3 comes out in mere hours, but i probably can't afford it ;_;
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[Sniper Honeyviper]

at least you got it at all on the 360, loki

[nothingxs]

unfortunately, it's arcana heart 3 :(
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3DSFC 1736-1476-0518

[Sniper Honeyviper]

what's wrong with that?

turns out that the semi-local arcade I discovered has a BBCS (not II) cab; it's a PC running the arcade rip, rigged up to accept tokens! have there been any other sighted examples of this kind of thing? it is kinda sleazy, but I was glad to see the place making an effort.

[nothingxs]

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/91/kirasmallmy6.jpg/sr=1

one of the things that's wrong with that
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3DSFC 1736-1476-0518

[Sniper Honeyviper]

what's wrong with a unique spin on zangief playstyles?

[nothingxs]

disgusting aesthetic. i've already elaborated on why i hate arcana heart despite how good of a game it might otherwise be and it'd be ridiculous to revisit it in this thread for the umpteenth time.
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[Persona-sama]

Yeah, Arcana Heart has some awful animation and the character designs all fall short of being actually interesting, instead just being a horrible and obvious mashup of various fetishes/niches/general stereotypes. Also the girls NEVER FUCKING SHUT UP OH MY GOD


The game is alright for playing though. I wish it allowed custom soundtracks and let me turn off dialogue though.
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[Sniper Honeyviper]

then i will politely disagree with you, and we will leave it at that

[nothingxs]

yeah that'll do fine really. i'll give respect where it's due though: the underlying system mechanics are very interesting. just a shame about the game.

anyways, anyone for tea?
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[analogos]

[Sniper Honeyviper]

At least half the characters represent moe-anime archetypes or cater to specific fetishes. It is definitely exploitative, though nowhere near the levels of Moetan or Kodomo no Jikan or whatever. There isn't any actual sexual content, and everyone stays pretty well-covered.

Whether you like it or not (I'm indifferent), it's a very complete and well-realized aesthetic, and that should be enough for anyone to tolerate it. In the heat of a match, how often do you perceive the graphics as anything beyond moving hitboxes, anyway?

I just think some people get needlessly superficial about games whenever that Animu Alarm starts ringing. It's like we've drawn a line in the sand between all games containing Big Eyes and those with Slightly Big Eyes, and we can't talk about them on the same terms. Yeah, I know there's more to it than that but it's still dumb.

Also, the artwork for the Arcanas is amazing.

[haze]

I watched videos of Arcana out of curiosity one day. to my surprise it wasn't as creepy as everyone had made it out to be. buncha anime magical girls, who cares. and like Persona said, it was just noisy and the animation was ho-hum.

Skullgirls actually creeps me out more haha, maybe since there's actual effort put into the art. fetish alarms going off. but hey nothing wrong with that! to put things in perspective, POKEMON has inspired more internet porn than anything else on the planet

[Sniper Honeyviper]

How was there more "actual effort" put into Skullgirls' art? The sprites' animation is very fluid and detailed, but isn't pixel art far more laborious to draw than flash-y stuff? Or am I just wrong and AH3's characters weren't drawn pixel by pixel?

Guess Persona would know.

[Persona-sama]

Why are you saying Flash and Skullgirls in the same sentence? Because if you think it's Flash, you are so very wrong - the game is hand drawn, hand colored, hand shaded and rendered in-engine to allow dynamic lighting as if it was a 3d model. Plus it's palletized cleverly so it can allow pretty different alternate colors, even giving one character an optional set of glasses, armband, stripes on a sweater, and levels of leggings. Here's a vid of the work process: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VkDXBsIXso

As for Arcana, the animation is pretty lazy in general. The animation is choppy or low in frames, the poses they pick aren't very dynamic, and the archs for the motion are pretty lazy or amateurly done. Their idle stances are especially boring, just movement for movements' sake rather than showing off any kind of personality. I suppose they're nice as still images but as animation, they're really whatever.
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[Persona-sama]

That's not to say Flash isn't hand animated, but most of the time Flash is synonymous with shit moving around awfully, being lazy instead of redrawing the damn thing. There's good Flash stuff out there like Cartoon Network shows, but it brings to mind the worst when people say it.


Also, I wonder if Arcana would look like it has any impact at all if you turned off sounds and got rid of the giant hit sparks.

Also also, pixels aren't necessarily harder to work in, it's just that you need the pipeline/procedure set up to handle it along with the staff that can animate in it properly, which most companies don't have. It's probably the same amount of work in the end, unless you're a big company making a pixel game in 2009 and all your tech is absolutely garbage at 2d and so you waste 1 gigabyte storing what's essentially 20 mbs of graphic data and it takes 6 hours to make a build and all the inhouse artists are useless and cause more problems than they're worth and gggg
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[Sniper Honeyviper]

Okay, thanks for clarifying. What's your professional opinion on SNKP's method for drawing the KOF XII/XIII sprites, where they rotoscoped from animated 3D models?

[Persona-sama]

Off the top of my head, pros and cons to the "use a 3d model then pixel over it" method:

Pros:
- On model
- Accurate shading
- Gives programmers something to work with while the artists are finishing up the art

Cons:
- Time consuming/double the work
- Can't really push the animation/do unrealistic things/squash and stretch


It's pretty good if you can spare the time for preproduction of those assets but seems a bit excessive. For example, I know Arc doesn't do that, instead opting for doing hand drawings and then pixeling over that, but they do use 3d ref for weapons or things that need lots of rotation and solid detail.

It's a shame because you can't get details like muscles flexing or breathing or extra stretching in a long punch unless the spriter puts them in afterwards. The spriter will have to do all the secondary animation like the clothes/hair anyway (unless they went the extra mile to do that in 3d beforehand too, in which case why not just make it a 3d fighter???) so if the spriter has to put details like that afterwards anyway, why doesn't he/she just do the whole thing from scratch to begin with?
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[Jigsaw]

All I know is that the new KOF sprites are pretty damn gorgeous, so I wouldn't question the results they're getting, at least. (Skullgirls looks pretty great too, though)

[Drem]

[nothingxs]

SNK still gets stretching/squashing out of their sprites, because they use the base model for the general idea apparently and fill in the rest with their own work (hence why Duolon still looks pretty good).
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[Persona]

Guys, I'm not saying AH is sexually malicious, I'm just saying their designs are really dumb. It's just the most obvious mishmashes of archetypes done in a really imaginationless way. I imagine the design process went like: "How about a girl that's also a ninja but also wearing a PE uniform... that's also a dog girl???" "GENIUS!"

That's not to say there's anything wrong with such a combination - it's just that they fuse it together in a really dumb way so it's aesthetically vapid in the worst way. I'm sure if you gave that idea to 90s Capcom and told them to make a character, it would've looked amazing.

Also, yeah SNK does good work with technique, but it does make me worry how they'll keep it up with their apparently precarious development situation. Also, I was just saying the general flaws of the technique. If SNK didn't have good animators come in and do the end job of pixeling, it'd look pretty lame. Speaking of which, I suspect that Ougon game totally uses this traced-3d-model technique because their poses look awful and stiff as hell.


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[diplo]

pretty sure that any game which features an eight-year-old in a swimsuit as a character is gross

[extrabastardformula]

people who have never thrown a kick in their lives cribbing keyframes from posebooks.

Persona, I am totally with you on how inefficient the SNK flow is and how it's amazing they can keep it up, but I've kind of resigned myself that SNK is a shambling corpse, too behind the times to have read its own obituary yet.
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