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Dark Age Iron Savior king of finders

Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Location: Spacecraft, Juanelia Country
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:15 am |
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pika pika.
| Duckzero wrote: |
| I love handheld systems by the way, I personally just wait until the prices on the games drop to something that I find reasonable. |
is there a price range that defines "reasonable" for you, and if so, what would cause you to go outside it? |
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Lick Meth

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: A constant state of flux
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:15 pm |
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| Lick Meth wrote: |
| The two aforementioned Namco games feature saves that cannot be deleted, like RE: Mercs. |
From a few pages back, but apparently it was some sort of translation error and save data can be deleted, so go hog wild |
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SuperWes

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:38 pm |
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It angers me so much that people are going apeshit over deletable save data. It's reasons like this that developers are encouraged focus on feature sets instead of the things that actually matter.
-Wes _________________
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drobe My Brothers!

Joined: 25 Jul 2008
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:59 pm |
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I wanted to throw out a counter by saying that undeletable saves would probably be deletable on homebrew carts, and that the pirate would inherit the world on your shoulders capcom.
But, nevermind. _________________
http://i.imgur.com/9ATgokP.gif |
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Kinto
Joined: 16 Feb 2011 Location: LANDAN
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:03 pm |
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| negativedge wrote: |
| if the casualty of that is Nintendo can no longer sell yearly updates of franchises for $40 and third parties cannot make a profit on $30 shovelware, that's fine by me. |
One could take this to mean that something like Majora's Mask wasn't worth the same price as Ocarina of Time.
99% of the time your point holds, perhaps that's all the accuracy you were going for. I just wanna point out that a game made in a year based on a previous engine can sometimes be pretty rad and totally worth full price. |
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Monsieur Eek

Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:10 pm |
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Majora's Mask came out more than a decade ago. _________________ Hi |
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SuperWes

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:29 pm |
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There are more differences between Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask than there are between Super Mario Kart SNES and Super Mario Kart Wii. It's more a question of intent and ambition than anything else.
-Wes _________________
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Duckzero

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Microsoft Land
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:41 pm |
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| Dark Age Iron Savior wrote: |
pika pika.
| Duckzero wrote: |
| I love handheld systems by the way, I personally just wait until the prices on the games drop to something that I find reasonable. |
is there a price range that defines "reasonable" for you, and if so, what would cause you to go outside it? |
20 bucks or less is usually the perfect price range for a full featured handheld game.
I only go out of that range if it's something that's really exciting, like Peace Walker (which was only kind of exciting after playing it). _________________ Keepin' it real like Oatmeal |
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Dark Age Iron Savior king of finders

Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Location: Spacecraft, Juanelia Country
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:26 am |
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I should probably straight up agree with Talbain that any discussion about how much people should pay for games will never be useful or objective due to the nature of currency itself.
| SuperWes wrote: |
It angers me so much that people are going apeshit over deletable save data. It's reasons like this that developers are encouraged focus on feature sets instead of the things that actually matter.
-Wes |
what? Deletable save data isn't part of a "feature set". It's something that is in - and should be in - most cartridge games released after 1990. |
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BenoitRen I bought RAM

Joined: 05 Jan 2007
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:48 am |
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Doesn't Japan already have variable prices for video games? Games like Dragon Quest go for the equivalent of 80 bucks over there. _________________ Get Xenoblade Chronicles!
| udoschuermann wrote: |
| Whenever I read things like "id like to by a new car," I cringe inside, imagine some grunting ape who happened across a keyboard, and move on without thinking about the attempted message. |
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SuperWes

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:46 am |
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| Dark Age Iron Savior wrote: |
| SuperWes wrote: |
It angers me so much that people are going apeshit over deletable save data. It's reasons like this that developers are encouraged focus on feature sets instead of the things that actually matter.
-Wes |
what? Deletable save data isn't part of a "feature set". It's something that is in - and should be in - most cartridge games released after 1990. |
Except that a lot of GBA games didn't allow you to delete the Save Data either and nobody cared. I'm pretty certain that the reason you can't delete the Save Data is because the entire game was rushed and half-assed, throwing in the bare minimum they thought they could get away with. The fact that people are flipping out over this rather than the fact that the game sucks is something that bothers me.
And from now on, because it got Kotaku a ton of hits, everyone's going to be flipping through their instruction books looking for the next big scoop (just like this Namco thing). It's annoying.
-Wes _________________
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Dark Age Iron Savior king of finders

Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Location: Spacecraft, Juanelia Country
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:08 am |
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People are complaining that the game is bad! They can complain about both! I know you have a hard time fitting more than one thought in your head at a time, but not everybody shares that problem.
Plenty of shitty, rushed, half-assed games have the ability to delete save files and/or start new ones in the same slot. The game had at least eight months worth of development, probably more, and I imagine enough people worked on it that someone had time to implement an erase/restart save feature, no matter how much work was already done with the MT Framework and imported assets. You're right in that Capcom was seeing what they could get away with, but in this case it was seeing if they could get away with a measure to discourage renting and used sales. |
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glossolalia
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:29 am |
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| expecting that games be reasonably functional pieces of software at a basic level is KILLING ART |
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glossolalia
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:41 am |
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| anyway why are you guys always making me aware of what people on other videogame message boards think. i come here specifically to not be aware of what people on other videogame message boards think. |
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Rud31 forum ruler of Iraq

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: SanAnTex
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Kinto
Joined: 16 Feb 2011 Location: LANDAN
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:58 pm |
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I think people were mostly pissed off at the idea of it becoming a new anti-tradein policy. It almost seems that given the choice between zero piracy/tradeins and more sales, more piracy, more tradeins but exactly the same amount profit, most companies would choose the former.
They look at tradeins and piracy like those are sales they should be getting but aren't, rather than sales they weren't getting either way.
I'm not saying they're wrong, I have no idea what the actual impact of piracy or tradeins are. But it seems like increasing the amount of people who play your game has got to be pretty good for business for when you make the eventual sequel. |
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SuperWes

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:48 pm |
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I see my desire to get people to stop talking about this has backfired. Bah!
Anyway, I wanted to point out that the chance that this was actually done as an anti-used sales measure is slim. The real reason it's missing is because the game was half-assed in every way imaginable, and when they had a week left in development they chose to add a feature that might help sell the game rather than implement a save wipe. It had more to do with priorities than design or marketing, and if Kotaku hadn't flipped out, it probably would have been the right decision to make.
As evidence I'd like to point out that the game does not have a single player campaign. If they were going to put effort into the game they probably would have started there!
-Wes _________________
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Renfrew catchy, and giger-esque

Joined: 31 Dec 2006 Location: Hometown: America
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:24 am |
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I picked up the newest issue of Nintendo because it had a special on the SNES and I wanted to be grumpy about Quintet never getting any love. Surprisingly, they spotlighted Actraiser, Soul Blazer and Illusion of Gaia and talked about how much it sucked that Terranigma never came out here.
I then looked at the review section and saw that one game had a 7, one had a 5.5 and everything else had less than a 4. How dire is your game release schedule when you can't even get good scores from Nintendo Power? _________________
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firenze

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Bonus Round
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:26 am |
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| Kinto wrote: |
| Lick Meth wrote: |
| At no point within the first 5 years was the DS getting thrashed by the PSP. |
Fuck it, I'll cede this, maybe I'm remebering incorrectly. But there was CERTAINLY a period where DS had no interesting software whatsoever and the system looked dead in the water next to the PSP (I think it was around the time Lumines came out, pre-DS Lite). DS was ugly, uncomfortable hardware that had nothing but minigame collections and half-arsed ports being thrown at it. |
This is oh so true. In the US, when the PSP launched in March 2005 it was widely accepted that Nintendo's recently released (Nov 2004) DS was about to get thrashed by a system where Sony "gets it" and made something "for gamers". While Nintendo had an ugly grey brick with worse technical specs, and one of its few high profile games was a port of a N64 classic that everyone had already played (in this case Mario 64). Does that setup sound at all familiar? That being said, it's no guarantee the situation will play out the same way this time (one big difference is less of a pricing gap). Sony seems to actually have learned some lessons, and Vita looks like a pretty strong contender.
One point that a lot of people are dancing around and missing with all this iOS as a competitor talk... there's another option for developers somewhere in between iOS and full blown AAA console game. The now well established online marketplaces on PSN and XBLA, and even the fairly vibrant "high end indie" PC downloadable market (look at stuff like Amnesia, Jamestown, and the like). The new era of garbage DS shovelware games are the ones that might get made on iOS instead of 3DS. But the quirky hardcore game that doesn't warrant a huge budget and might have gone to DS last generation now might be better suited for PSN instead of a sorta floundering new portable.
This takes away one big reason that the DS did so well - strong niche support by 3rd parties who were attracted to the relatively cheap development cost/lower risk compated to a big budget console game. Even a company like Square-Enix did more games on DS than they have on the 360/PS3, much less the more niche players. In 2004-2006 there wasn't such a widely accepted downloadable market that fit well for those games that weren't quite $60 console blockbusters, but which were still serious games. Even early XBLA/PSN was more focused on ports of 80s arcade games and little puzzlers. Not like now where we're seeing some more expensive and full featured original games - From Dust, Outland, Bastion, Wipeout HD, Dead Nation, etc... Projects of similar scope might have been just right for DS if they were being planned in 2006. But today? Doing that same game on PSN or Steam might be pretty enticing.
I don't believe it's really about whether you have one device in your pocket that does everything versus a single-focus portable game device. It still is about the software quality to a large extent, and 5 minute diversion games simply don't compete directly with a more in-depth gaming experience. But there are now other legitimate distribution channels for the software that made the DS something more than every other Nintendo system that has lots of high profile first party games and poor 3rd party support. So that might indeed lead to the 3DS doing badly not because it doesn't also act as a phone, but because the software lineup is shitty. |
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Kinto
Joined: 16 Feb 2011 Location: LANDAN
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:25 pm |
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It seems likely that such games would end up being ported to everything that could run them anyway, there's no reason devs wouldn't try to maximise the range of games like that. In the past you couldn't put something like Outrun Online Arcade on a DS, but putting it on 3DS is much more plausible. As far as I can tell these digital distribution channels are still fairly niche, so there's little reason why they wouldn't make either a 3DS port for retail release or for it's own online store (which Nintendo apparently wants to start pushing, little evidence of that so far though). _________________
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death parade banned
Joined: 25 Mar 2011
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:03 pm |
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| Nintendo are a bitch to develop for. Higher requirements made of the developer than iOS or XBLA. |
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Kinto
Joined: 16 Feb 2011 Location: LANDAN
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:22 pm |
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What's the difference? Do they demand higher license fees or what? _________________
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Toptube Anti-cabbage Party Candidate
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:55 pm |
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| Square probably did so many DS games because its the most successful videogame hardware in history. |
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glossolalia
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:22 pm |
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| Kinto wrote: |
| What's the difference? Do they demand higher license fees or what? |
developers don't get any royalties on WiiWare games until the game meets a strict sales quota, are given little control over the release process and no tools to promote their games, and no one's paying attention anyway, as detailed here:
http://www.indievision.biz/?tag=wiiware
you get a steady percentage of all sales on the App Store for negligible entry costs, PSN has no sales quotas, and i'm not finding anything to that effect for XBLA either.
XBLA/PSN may still make more sense than Android/iOS for some developers but Nintendo seems like a bad choice for anyone but Nintendo. they're determined to be stingy even if it shoots them in the foot, don't understand online stuff, and are still stuck in the mindset that developers are privileged to release games for their hardware when it's becoming the other way around.
Last edited by glossolalia on Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rud31 forum ruler of Iraq

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: SanAnTex
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:55 pm |
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| Kinto wrote: |
| What's the difference? Do they demand higher license fees or what? |
While I don't know how true this still is another one of the reasons companies jumped ship when the Playstation game out was Sony's cut was significantly smaller. like 15% to 35%. _________________ My Hawt Blog Vita Games
THERE ARE DEFINITELY WORSE VIDEO GAME PODCASTS |
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Toptube Anti-cabbage Party Candidate
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:34 pm |
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| On the off-topic: don't put your appstore games up on Amazon's store. |
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Kinto
Joined: 16 Feb 2011 Location: LANDAN
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:48 pm |
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Hahaha fuuuuck that's shockingly retarded.
What's up with the Amazon app store, Toptube?! _________________
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Persona unaustically orificial

Joined: 06 Jul 2011 Location: Xibalba
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:55 pm |
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To be on XBLA, you need to have published 3 previous titles on Xbox, meaning you can't get on there unless you're co-published by someone else who fits the credentials. It's pretty silly.
This isn't the case for the indie arcade, of course. _________________
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Tulpa

Joined: 31 Jul 2008
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:40 pm |
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| Kinto wrote: |
Hahaha fuuuuck that's shockingly retarded.
What's up with the Amazon app store, Toptube?! |
Apparently you get zilch for putting up your game as free app of the day (despite them promising 20% of the normal price even for free sales), they'll change the price without asking you, make it impossible to remove something from the app store, don't make it easy/possible to filter by device, etc etc etc. _________________
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Kinto
Joined: 16 Feb 2011 Location: LANDAN
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:43 pm |
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So...which app store ISN'T run by subsaharan african warlords? _________________
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Tulpa

Joined: 31 Jul 2008
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:28 pm |
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on a spectrum, both the iphone and google app stores are better than amazons. _________________
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Lick Meth

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: A constant state of flux
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:14 pm |
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| In (worrying? Surprising?) news about the 3DS again, rumours are circulating from an apparently very reliable French gaming site that the 3DS will be getting a re-launch next year with a second analogue stick, whilst Nintendo are doing their best to create an add-on solution for existing owners. The re-launch will also have a vastly reduced focus on the 3D element. |
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radish

Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Location: tromaville
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:54 pm |
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A relaunch is pretty surprising, but (if true) focusing less on the 3D isn't. I've got it turned off on mine pretty much constantly.
Also, if this is true,
uhhh.... I might trade it in for a Vita? And maybe buy the relaunch version when they're games worth getting?
Last edited by radish on Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bennett

Joined: 03 Apr 2009
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:02 pm |
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| That's not going to rescue the prestige of the brand. They should suck it up, pull the plug on the 3DS, and enact some kind of viable portable plan (like my ultra-cheap connected-GBA suggestion, for example). |
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Takashi

Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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firenze

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Bonus Round
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:39 pm |
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I can almost see scrapping the 3DS brand and trying to rebrand/relaunch with a modified machine. Not entirely implausible, and it would be pretty cool to see any big media/entertainment company giving up on 3D!
Also, considering this is in Japan around TGS, it wouldn't shock me at all if Dragon Quest X was part of this conference in some way. |
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Moogs
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:42 pm |
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| Nintendo will abandon the handheld market and develop/publish for iOS MEGATON!!! |
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A New Duck

Joined: 08 Dec 2008 Location: Eugene, ORLY
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:19 pm |
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Is the 3DS really that big a disaster? Or is video game punditry just bigger business than it was half a decade ago? _________________
3DS/PokéMagic Friendz Code: 1289-8272-6032 |
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Bennett

Joined: 03 Apr 2009
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:38 pm |
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| You don't slash the price by a quarter after four months and issue a public apology unless you're having a disaster. |
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Sniper Honeyviper
Joined: 30 Aug 2009
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:50 pm |
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| I'm convinced that all the naysayers about the end of dedicated gaming handhelds are in denial. |
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Duckzero

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Microsoft Land
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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:33 am |
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| Bennett wrote: |
| That's not going to rescue the prestige of the brand. They should suck it up, pull the plug on the 3DS, and enact some kind of viable portable plan (like my ultra-cheap connected-GBA suggestion, for example). |
I think there's a huge market for a purely 2D version of the 3DS for 30 bucks cheaper. Maybe even more.
I personally would pay for a 3d less version of it. Also, the other DS systems are price SO CLOSE to the 3DS that it's confusing. Either way there's a lot of consumer confusion, especially when they just know the DSi XL has a bigger screen, therefore it must be better. Oh and it's the same price.
A rebranding/redesign is sorely needed right now. _________________ Keepin' it real like Oatmeal |
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