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shnozlak
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: pushing crates in the sewer level
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ionustron
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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 Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:00 pm |
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| diplo wrote: |
| So, how are the musics in this? |
It's sounding abit phoned in so far. |
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notbov
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:23 pm |
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the music is pretty generic fantasy-esque, but it fits because the whole thing is Brand X Fantasy taken to the extreme
so, there was a patch announced and they're adding the item shortcut to L1, so you could conceivably play online on a stick comfortably since everyone else will get treasure and molest portraits for you
unless you're carrying more than 4 items. in which case, good luck with that.
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JUMBO
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:14 am |
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| diplo wrote: |
| JUMBO wrote: |
| It's still 100% creepy nerd shit but at least it's honest, |
How is this ever an "at least"? This sentiment seems meaningless. |
I find the work of an unabashed sickie like Russ Meyer more palatable than pornographers who pander to an audience rather than explore/indulge their own hangups. Yes, Meyer's work is problematic, but he had a unique voice. He was sincere. Dude couldn't help it. He was passionate about gigantic bosoms. And money, I'm sure. But he probably liked boobs even more.
I'll also take a guy like Meyer over someone who tries to hide their filth behind a layer of legitimacy or irony. The former tends to result in product like the recent Tomb Raider, where there's this sickness bubbling up throughout, one so pervasive that it seems like no one involved was aware of just how gross it is. I find that sort of thing more depressing than funny at this point in my life, and I need some kind of buffer between myself and the work before I can laugh at it (thanks, Bioshock Infinite thread!). And ironic filth is similarly sad, where you have irredeemable garbage like Seth MacFarlane regularly spewing hateful shit while proclaiming "j/k guys i'm no sexist bigot i'm a lib i voted for obama." It's so cowardly. Not that someone like Meyer or Georgie Vanillaware is brave -- oblivious is more likely -- but that sort of shamelessness tends to result in more fun, interesting, less troubling (to me) work. I can easily laugh at/with people who nakedly express who they are, or who are trying to work out their issues via art. It's the ones who are wearing masks you got to worry about. |
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diplo
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Location: Brandy Brendo's bungalow
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:18 am |
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So you're saying there's a subtlety to the so-called hidden problematic assets that's not in the other and that that can be more harmful? If that's the case, I feel like "obviousness" could be a better word than "honest"; i.e., "Dragon's Crown can be criticized for traditional displays of gendered exploitation/objectification" (the obviousness here would be Giant Boobs to Ogle, etc.), while Tomb Raider, whose imagery-to-idea link is less defined (how a female character self-actualizes (women can't be "strong" or "grow" unless they go through Hell)) is harder to critique, even if that critique also is a matter of exploitation. Claiming that X is honest carries with it the baggage of perceived intent, and I think that's too windy of a road to incorporate into some standardized judgment. Although it is appealing.
| ionustron wrote: |
| diplo wrote: |
| So, how are the musics in this? |
It's sounding abit phoned in so far. |
My guess is that, like other VW games, it's a few good Sakimoto pieces with the rest being mediocre/decent things by the other Basiscape people. Waiting for the album to come out for the info. |
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another god
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:28 pm |
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| Do you guys like Robin Thicke? Because this is the old school gamer D&D loving equivalent of Blurred Lines. |
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JUMBO
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:53 pm |
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| diplo wrote: |
| So you're saying there's a subtlety to the so-called hidden problematic assets that's not in the other and that that can be more harmful? If that's the case, I feel like "obviousness" could be a better word than "honest"; i.e., "Dragon's Crown can be criticized for traditional displays of gendered exploitation/objectification" (the obviousness here would be Giant Boobs to Ogle, etc.), while Tomb Raider, whose imagery-to-idea link is less defined (how a female character self-actualizes (women can't be "strong" or "grow" unless they go through Hell)) is harder to critique, even if that critique also is a matter of exploitation. Claiming that X is honest carries with it the baggage of perceived intent, and I think that's too windy of a road to incorporate into some standardized judgment. Although it is appealing. |
Yes, obvious is the word I wish I'd used. Dragon's Crown is obvious, silly and slightly odd. Remove the Amazon and I'm pretty sure this game would have received far less criticism. I think that's interesting and a bit sad. |
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Kinto
Joined: 16 Feb 2011
Location: LANDAN
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:31 pm |
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| Rokkan wrote: |
| (what sexuality is explored other than the straight cis man's sexuality in 99% of all vidcons though?). |
This does not even broadly represent the sexuality of straight cis men. No video games do. I honestly don't get why people think straight cis men are basically the same person. It's about as offensive as assuming all gay man are into Liberace. |
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Isfet
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: A New York
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:08 pm |
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| Kinto wrote: |
| It's about as offensive as assuming all gay man are into Liberace. |
not really, though.
anyway, i said i wasn't gonna write any more about this but I LIED. i guess i just see a lot of people fixating on issues which are issues, but aren't really what my main gripe was focused on. the physical representations of the character in the game are, indeed, obvious forms of objectification. honestly, were that the only thing going on in the game, i'd probably have bought it and counted my losses.
the thing that got me was the virtual molestation of female prisoners thing. i dunno; really think about that scenario for a minute.
again, i don't believe that this was included maliciously, but that's somewhat more disturbing. |
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:31 pm |
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| another god wrote: |
| Do you guys like Robin Thicke? Because this is the old school gamer D&D loving equivalent of Blurred Lines. |
oy, this whole conversation is just so annoying. on one side, we have a lot of people playing it and admitting there are problems. On the other side, we have posts like this equating this game with a song that kinda advocates for date rape. and this is kinda why this thread was just not talking about it, because it seems really hard to talk about ti without people making posts like these. accusations like this both show a complete ignorance of the game itself, and try to skew and/or kill the conversation, which isn't helpful either.
One is a game lets you fondle one imprisoned woman (and severl not imprisoned ones) and at least gives lip service to the idea thatyeah, this sin't right. Does that lip service clear it up? Of course not, but fuck, GTA let's me fuck and murder a prostitute to get my money back, so uh, yeah, if we are holding it against games that they let us do things, we need to address shit like that as well.
The other is a song that tries to say "no is yes" and yeah, I would think you would see how these are different. Are they part of the same culture of misogyny and so on? Well duh, yes. That doesn't mean they are the same.
So yeah, I think I might just check out of this thread when it gets to this point.
Isfet, thank you for not posting like that. Yes, there is one imprisoned spirit-woman you can poke. yes this is gross. yes, the game calls you gross for doing it. it's not going to change, sadly. While they are patching item usage, I highly doubt they are ever going to remove this disgusting shit, as much as you or I or a bunch of other people might wish they would. There is a decent segment of specifically Japanese games that have this sort of thing in them, and yes it sucks, but your choices are to either engage with them or not, because sadly, it has only gotten worse with time, despite peoples complaints about it seeming to grow louder (there is a lot more feminist-oriented games criticism out there now tha there ever has been, and yet it doesn't seem to affect this niche). Metal Gear is still going to have Metal Gear's womens issues, for example.
Nobody here is pretending it isn't gross, despite posts like another god's trying to say they are.
Last edited by boojiboy7 on Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kinto
Joined: 16 Feb 2011
Location: LANDAN
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:39 pm |
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Oh shit, thanks for correcting me on how offended I should be.
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Isfet
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: A New York
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:47 pm |
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| sorry, Kinto, i don't mean to be glib. stereotypes and generalizations are always annoying, yes, but what i was getting at was more along the lines of, in what way has your life or upward mobility been actively deterred by people's assumptions about straight cis men? |
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Kinto
Joined: 16 Feb 2011
Location: LANDAN
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:05 pm |
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When we misrepresent the sexuality of all straight cis men everywhere it affects how men police their own and eachothers sexuality when they are attracted to women that fall outside the representation. Men end up not comfortable about dating who they actually want to date because other men give them shit for it (see shaming phrases like "chubby chaser"). This causes them to have shitty relationships with women they don't want to date, or even shitty relationships with women they actually do want to date.
Needless to say, all of this affects women in a profound way. It creates unrealistic and limiting standards for them. It makes them feel less attractive to men than they actually are.
Dividing people up into cultural silos and declaring that only certain kinds of oppression is worth fighting is total bullshit. Oppression of any kind is worth destroying, not only for it's own sake but also because oppression begets oppression.
To answer your question with a personal experience, this bullshit fucked up my relationships toward women for a long-ass time. All things being equal, fewer guys with fucked up attitudes/feelings toward women has to be a thing worth having.
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Rokkan
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:42 pm |
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| Kinto wrote: |
| Rokkan wrote: |
| (what sexuality is explored other than the straight cis man's sexuality in 99% of all vidcons though?). |
This does not even broadly represent the sexuality of straight cis men. No video games do. I honestly don't get why people think straight cis men are basically the same person. It's about as offensive as assuming all gay man are into Liberace. |
i meant that 99% of all vidcons do not exploit sexuality of people who are not straight, cisgender men, not that the things in those video games represent literally all of straight cisgender men's sexualities. It definitely does not equate to sweeping statements about gay men in the least. I will take part of the blame for my phrasing though as I phrased it like if this demographic was one person. |
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Flylighter
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: On sabbaddical
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:17 pm |
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| diplo wrote: |
| So, how are the musics in this? |
Most of it isn't very good. The monastery/church place in town has a nice feel to its music though.
I'm enjoying the gameplay! I'm only like 6 stages in, I haven't beat it yet.
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nothingxs
various methods of escape
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Miami, FL
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Bennett
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:43 pm |
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| Moogs wrote: |
Not jiving with the combat this game. Feels like none of the sprites are interacting with each other so it feels off to me.
Not sure what I was expecting, but it wasn't this. |
I agree, but this actually puts it where you would expect on a line from Tower of Doom, through Mystara, to this.
People think Mystara is better because it has combos and extra systems and lots of extra shit, but even at that stage they were losing that amazing feeling of solidity that Tower of Doom had.
(funnily enough I also think this is part of what makes Diablo 3 worse than Diablo 2. Perhaps it's that, in order to have games where each weapon must have infinitely granular properties, you can't have a really crunchy combat system, since really solid sprite interactions always favor tacticality over stats) |
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notbov
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:01 pm |
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I'd argue Diablo 3 had far weightier combat than either of its predecessors and that it was pretty much the one thing Blizzard got right and that game from the get go. in fact, I'm sort of curious over hot it will handle on a controller; I'm fairly confident it'll make the transition smoothly because they got the feeling right even when playing on a mouse.
as for Dragon's Crown, how solid and weighty the combat feels to me is proportional to the size of the enemy; a lot of the cannon fodder don't even register, but bigger enemies (especially once you start running up to ones that have tons of armor/no hitstun) feels like I'm hitting them around.
I also like that the Amazon uses her butt for stomping enemies, mostly because I am a child and find it funny
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Victor
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:03 pm |
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| I've been playing the knight exclusively and have felt his heavy hits feel pretty crunchy, weighty on connect. I've been pretty happy, in general, with the relationship between physics and animations and stuff - takeoff/landings from jumps, dodges, running, dash-attack into wall-bounce, etc. |
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Bennett
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:02 am |
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I think the game starts to feel more solid and interesting once you get monsters that can't be mashed to death. The charge and throw mechanics are good.
On the prodding/molesting game, I'm not sure if this makes any difference, but that too is Tower of Doom fanservice. You can advance the conversations and sometimes even get magic items in those two games by 'touching' the scorekeeper's body and face with your disembodied hand. And in those games, too, the young women disapprove when you touch their chests.
To be sure, it's much more overtly sexualized in this new game. |
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:42 am |
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| notbov wrote: |
| I'd argue Diablo 3 had far weightier combat than either of its predecessors and that it was pretty much the one thing Blizzard got right and that game from the get go. |
Except that whole "you aren't really allowed to dodge things except we built this guy around dodging whoops" thing. |
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notbov
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:39 pm |
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while I don't agree with how they made mitigating melee damage down to "you better stack dodge or block or both", I can understand why they did, because always online
so, right around the level 60 mark, loot stops being "I'll replace this in a level or two" to "oh god these stats, shit is crazy", to the point where I can actually put together bags around gimmicks like stacking crit chance or one bag with dex and an amulet with a dex/10 chance of ignoring armor (don't sleep on armor ignore, it's almost indistinguishable from crit in my experience). I'm also bummed that I can't trade any of this loot I don't need/can't use for a bit. Labyrinth of Chaos is fun too, especially when you see that the game is getting serious and starts ending rooms with bosses as minibosses.
I can kinda see why the Japanese think Amazon is so awesome, since she can spec for a parry that gives her invincibility and (I think) can be done mid-combo without interrupting the string, effectively making her pretty fucking tanky
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:17 am |
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| notbov wrote: |
| while I don't agree with how they made mitigating melee damage down to "you better stack dodge or block or both", I can understand why they did, because always online |
that wasn't exactly what i was talking about. i was more getting at how the demon hunter class had a bunch of abilities built to allow you to dodge out of the way of damage, and then Blizz specifically declared they didn't want people to be able to paly the game based on reflexes, which effectively left the DH (at the time, like a year ago now, fuck only know how it is now) without any defnses at all, so hey I''ve got this super high DPS but no way to avoid dying because that skill that let me theoretically dodge being hit got nerfed to not let that happen so uhh....
Thankfully DC pulls none of this. |
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Talbain
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:28 am |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| notbov wrote: |
| while I don't agree with how they made mitigating melee damage down to "you better stack dodge or block or both", I can understand why they did, because always online |
that wasn't exactly what i was talking about. i was more getting at how the demon hunter class had a bunch of abilities built to allow you to dodge out of the way of damage, and then Blizz specifically declared they didn't want people to be able to paly the game based on reflexes, which effectively left the DH (at the time, like a year ago now, fuck only know how it is now) without any defnses at all, so hey I''ve got this super high DPS but no way to avoid dying because that skill that let me theoretically dodge being hit got nerfed to not let that happen so uhh....
Thankfully DC pulls none of this. |
For now...
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:14 am |
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| Well, I don't worry about DC having that problem, as the game is very transparent about its arcade roots, whereas Diablo 3 only really ever wanted to be WoW-lite. |
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ionustron
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:55 am |
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Doubt VW or Atlus's willing to spend resources on sweeping mechanics changes but I don't know. Seems like the game is doing okay.
WoW isn't even WoW anymore. If anything, Diablo is closer to WoW where WoW is closer to WoW-lite...or WoW-lite-lite. It's really sad. |
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Talbain
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:44 pm |
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WoW's private servers are more interesting than the actual servers now. I particularly like the ones that largely remove the enemies and just let you move around in the game. It's really a very pretty game, it's just cluttered by an annoyingly poor and needlessly complex interface.
Or: Having the player keep track of 20 cooldowns is extraordinarily unenjoyable.
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nothingxs
various methods of escape
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Miami, FL
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:35 pm |
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I would, but I mostly play with local people. However, add me if we aren't already PSNbros and I will gladly jump on some stuff with you at some point.
I've cleared the game with the Wizard now. It sucks that player 2 doesn't get counted for that though, so we have to redo it with the Elf as 1P. This game reall can't decide if it wants to be an online or offline game. |
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nothingxs
various methods of escape
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Miami, FL
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sponkmonkey
Joined: 24 May 2011
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:37 pm |
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still don't have the game :(
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:03 pm |
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| nothingxs wrote: |
| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| I would, but fuck you nxs you suck. |
:(
(my PSN is nothingxs; can I add you via some sort of webpage like XBL, or is it only at my console?) |
i think it is only at the console, or i would add you here as well.
and nah, i don't think it is that you suck. it's just that the way the game is set up makes mixing an online and an offline party much more inconvenient than it should be unless you are doing some super long questing. |
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notbov
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:17 pm |
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speaking of which, I don't even know it's possible to do the last boss online (I have join off because hirelings are annoying). I can understand why they had random joining be drop-in/out only, but seeing as they give you the choice of joining a friend from the online menu, cutting the town off from online play seems rather short sighted
couple of things in case you haven't run into them yet: switching to/joining a game with a lower difficulty will auto-adjust your stats and, yes, you can get an item for a skill reset, so you can get rid of stuff you thought worked differently because the descriptions in the game are kind of half-assed, which totally hasn't happened to me, no sir
also, fine, I'll add more PSN bros, but why aren't you adding me >:[
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nothingxs
various methods of escape
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:19 pm |
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because i don't know your psns you magical jerks
anyways online/offline party was pretty easy for me to do, honestly. just meet at stables, hop on, go nuts. since there's no voice chat (man what the FUCK), i use my tablet + skype if people are interested in doing that sort of thing, otherwise silently going nuts is fine too.
labyrinth of chaos is fuckin' fun.
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:38 pm |
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| Well yes, that is what you would do, except that the whole inventory management and such between runs becomes a problem, in that every time you want to do it involve re-meeting up, which is silly but yay japan online gaming. |
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another god
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:59 pm |
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i kinda want to beat this game TODAY (like now). anyone up for helping me get the white crystal and then fight the boss?
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nothingxs
various methods of escape
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:05 pm |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| Well yes, that is what you would do, except that the whole inventory management and such between runs becomes a problem, in that every time you want to do it involve re-meeting up, which is silly but yay japan online gaming. |
Huh? I just keep continuing over and over and switching from one bag to the next until I'm either fully exhausted of equipment to use in bags, or I just need a break (around the time we go past 5mill score). You don't manage inventory at all when you just continue, and I usually leave that for after I'm done playing. :P
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:13 pm |
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Well I don't really like bothering having 8 sets of equipment, so yeah, think about what a pain going back to town would be.
I mean, I could do the bag thing, but it seems like a silly grind that I can avoid just playing locally. |
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another god
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:28 pm |
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It sucks having a bunch of different sets of equipment, but the long, multi dungeon adventure is a lot different than a bunch of little ones connected to each other.
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:40 pm |
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| It seems like it would be, and I plan on doing it more as the difficulties progress upward. As it is now, I cna make it through about 3 dungeons in a row on one set of fully fixed gear, so that works for a nice run. |
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nothingxs
various methods of escape
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:47 pm |
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I suppose! I never really thought about it that much, but I notice going deep into runs rewards you with tons of good experience and loot, so the first time I did like seven dungeons in a row, it was easy to assemble three kits.
It never felt really grindy or nuts either, but that's also due to the fact that I experiment a lot with strategies and combos and synergies each playthrough. Fighting game background, etc.
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