[negativedge]

So we have the fightman thread, guys, but in some ways it is really two threads: talk about fighting games, and talk about people playing fighting games.

Here is something I am doing a lot these days: watching streams, tournaments, shows, and other errata relating to both fighting games and (mostly) Starcraft II. Discussion of high level/professional competitive gaming on sites like this has historically boiled down to "lol that shit is stupid," or "lol I hear they watch Starcraft on TV in Korea wtf," but I feel like the tide has turned. Fighters have hit the big time, and though I don't think many people around here play SC2, it has had a tremendous impact on the legitimacy of gaming as a spectator sport in the western world, where esports have been real boom or bust over the years. Cheap and super viable internet streaming platforms are starting to give the scene the kind of stability that it has lacked. Combine that with the general slowing down of the relentless video game hardware cycle (and with it the fickle attention spam of the public) and I kind of feel like this stuff is going to work out.

With the fighter talk we have around here, and with Evo coming up (and evo season having been in full swing) on that side, and with July GSL and the NASL finals coming up for Starcraft, with Dreamhack having been recent, MLG Anaheim on deck--it just seems like the right time for this.

So this is the thread to talk about competitive gaming in all its forms. You can talk about any game. You can post streams, discuss tournaments, talk strategy for any game you play, share stories of your history with taking multiplayer gaming seriously, debate the merits of esports as a thing, ask questions, be a dick, share your thoughts--whatever you got.

Here's a minor conversation starter: though competitive gaming is on the up and up, there really doesn't seem to be a go to FPS for these kinds of players and fans. CS is old, and pretty much everyone has fucked her by now; Quake Live doesn't have the buzz it was supposed to; CoD sucks; Halo is...the closest thing, I guess? I think there's a large market out there for someone to show up and design a streamlined FPS specifically for super competitive play--and with reasonable spectator functionality build in, which has always been a huge barrier for the genre.

Do we have any crazy DOTA/League of Legends/Heroes of Newerth players here.

Fightman people, plz keep this thread alive until it finds a groove kthnx. WHO IS EVO MARVEL FAVORITE?!?!?

[analogos]

I guess this is worth addressing or at least reading up on if you care about any of this

http://shoryuken.com/2011/06/29/trolling-the-stream-by-ultradavid/

http://shoryuken.com/2011/06/30/capcoms-christian-svensson-responds-to-anti-streaming-bill/

http://shoryuken.com/2011/06/30/tolling-the-stream-follow-up-ultradavid-responds/

[Mr Peckerston]

[This Machine Kills Fascis]

I really enjoy streaming EVO.

Every once in a while I'll look up some SFIV or SF2 fights on YouTube.

I'm sure this is old to most people who would care about this thread, but man I love this video:


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"Godzilla could be anyone."

[Pat the Great]

[sarsamis]

The Western SC2 scene has become one of my favorite diversions.

There are a lot of features in Halo's replay thing that would be great for casting, but at the same time, there'd be no way to hide the fact that replays are being cast, as they do in most SC2 tournaments that aren't held on-location.

Maybe they should just make Quake 3 HD or something.

[Deets]

[The King]

lol that shit is still stupid
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[The King]

Competitive videogames, fightmans and FPS and what-have-you are great.
A human opponent will provide a more dynamic experience, and you have someone to gloat over when you win.

Professional gaming (or "esports") is an embarrassment. Sports are generally athletic, motor sports straddle the line rather awkwardly sometimes, but gaming is pretty definitively on the not a sport side of the line. It's a sport the same way chess and checkers are 'mind sports': sports only in a really forced and awkward use of the word. The 'professional' aspect is usually only mentioned as an awful attempt for people to legitimize their hobby, pretty much a direct parallel to those awkward 'videogames are art' rants that pop up all over the place. 'Some people make money doing this, so that makes it a worthwhile way for me to spend time.'. Doesn't matter what number of people make what level of income, some people make money playing games, ergo playing games is good. So gross.
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[analogos]

what, the word combination "professional gaming" is an embarrassment? what are you even talking about. who cares what it's called

professional = someone gets paid. sport = skill-based competitive activity

[haze]

earning money is an embarrassment

[Touran]

I'm going to start casting LoL games actually!

And probably some other stuff too!

Currently my own3d.tv page is empty, but I'll have some videos up and (hopefully a stable) schedule of live stuff.
http://www.own3d.tv/live/65340/TouranRowan

I'm pretty amazed at how fast the scene for competitive gaming has been growing in the past few years, and it's something that I'm really excited about.
It's really due to the ease of getting content out on the internet for people to watch/spectate.



I'm not really sure your argument has any weight at all king. Your definition of a sport is really narrow minded.
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Man, I'm sorry.

[Pat the Great]

I had a MLG party during the last event and got 10 people to show up, sit in my living room, drink beer, and talk shit about Starcraft 2 while watching the semis and finals on the big screen. As far as I'm concerned, "eSports" is a pretty good way to describe the behavior I'm engaging in.

edit: And if any of y'all are in the Bay Area next time I do this, feel free to stop by. I won't be doing it for MLG Anaheim because I'll be at Evo.
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-pat m.
twitter

[The King]

Earning money isn't an embarrassment, feeling a need to point out some people make money doing the thing you don't make money for, as though that somehow makes the activity more virtuous is the ridiculous part.

My definition of sport is pretty damn broad, but not so all-encompassing to become meaningless.
If you use analogos's definition of a sport, nearly every human endeavor is considered a sport.
You could be a professional sportsman working as a sales clerk so long as you do it in a store that provides bonuses based on highest (as apposed to high) sales volume. It's ludicrous.
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[negativedge]

I think the point is that getting caught up on terminology is not particularly beneficial. You can call it what you want, but at some point anything that is competitive has to decide if the medium of competition is both interesting enough in and of itself (competition is its own allure regardless of what it takes as its subject), and deep or nuanced enough to afford constant improvement and a general stratification of competitors based on skill. If both of these questions are answered in the affirmative, then there is no longer any line where you can go "ok, competition is fun and all, but it stops here." Whether anyone cares is a different story, and where the crux of any real argument against video games as serious competitive fodder bears the most fruit. One of the problems has always been the fact that video games and video gamers are not static--they move on, which means there's always the risk of old standbys becoming too old of standbys, and of new games simply not carrying the momentum of their predecessors. For serious competitive gaming to really take off, I think this divide is going to have to be answered at some point. Games are going to have to be designed from the ground up to serve that need, they're going to have to have the super long term in mind (they will need to be modular, they will need integrated training and spectating tools beyond what we see now, etc.), and they're probably going to have to separate themselves further from what we think of when we say "video game," which is an even bigger issue (what does "video game" mean? etc.)>

[analogos]

glad you made that post because I'm pretty sure I was just going to say "who gives a shit." think I'm in a bad mood.

[Youpi]

Back when there was a lot of drama about Blizzard's fascist policies about MP in SC2, I thought they were killing any hope of having a serious pro scene, and that people would play SC1 long after SC2 was forgotten. Could someone who actually plays/follows SC2 stuff explain how they think Blizzard got it right?

[Pat the Great]

Depends what you mean by "got it right". Lack of LAN play still sucks for competitive events. Many SC1 purists think that making the game easier with modern amenities like multi-building select make it less exciting to watch. And there's a lovely quote floating around somewhere about how you're "not supposed to take a third base"--basically, lots of the Blizzard-designed maps used in ladder play (and consequentially, in a lot of tournament play) don't really encourage long macro-oriented games.

That said, I find SC2 remarkably entertaining to watch, and I think a lot of the built-in replay features make it easier to watch as a spectator.
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-pat m.
twitter

[sarsamis]

[Duckzero]

So last night I went to one of the bigger(?) Seattle area tournaments. The Salty Runback. It was pretty good to get back into the the tournament scene after not being in a tourney in about 4 months. You guys should check the stream out sometime in the future (http://justin.tv/teamkhaos), a lot of good Marvel action with a lot of randoms showing up and doing super well. The brackets were 40 something for AE and Marvel. MK9 and Tekken were present as well, but sadly not too many people were playing those games.

Also, it made me completely aware that I'm not anywhere near ready for EVO. Juri takes so much work to be super effective, but I'm liking the challenge of training with her.

Anyway, good times going 2 and out.
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Keepin' it real like Oatmeal

[Talbain]

Whoa, another Juri player! High-five!
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[This Machine Kills Fascis]

I'm pretty interested to see someone play Juri at a tournament level. The only videos I've seen so far are some matches between Daigo and this Kuraudokin guy. PM me if you ever have a match streaming or if you upload a video to YouTube, Duckzero.

Y'know I've always wondered exactly why people pick the characters they play in tournaments. I mean, are they usually just playing the character that they feel "connected" to (or felt "connected" to as a kid), or do they sit down and decide which character will be most advantageous--most surprising and confusing for their opponent or simply a high tier character that they're comfortable playing. Do tourney level players even pay attention to tier lists?

I'm working under the assumption that they dedicate themselves to a particular character for at least a month or two before the tourney, rather than just training with a stable of characters and picking one at the last minute.

Personally, when I want to win at SF2 or 4, I just play Ryu. I picked him when I was younger, because he seemed powerful, well-rounded, and easy to learn. I'll play other characters for fun, obviously, but I'm never compelled to put the time into them to get good. Anyway, I don't really play in arcades, and I don't have any connection to the tournament scene. So I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing.
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"Godzilla could be anyone."

[Deets]

[Talbain]

Juri is the only character, ever, in a Street Fighter game that felt right when I played. I've played every other character, but for some reason, when I play Juri, everything just flows. I've never top 8'ed in a tourney, but I have top 16'ed (granted I've never gone to EVO or any big tourneys). For me it is entirely about the feel, and to be honest, until I started playing Juri, I wasn't all that enthused about SSF4 at all.

To be honest, though I've always enjoyed the fighting game and arcade scenes, I never had a character that flowed well with my play style. Juri has a kind of tricky poke style that's really great, and aggressive wake-ups that move forward rather than upward. I also play her a bit differently in that I don't store her fireballs (which is both an advantage in that it's unexpected but disadvantageous in my predictability).
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[ninjafetus]

I've watched SC off and on for years. Now with SC2 it's getting pretty crazy popular in the US (at least comparatively).

I can understand people getting a bit ruffled about the term "e-sports", but excepting the (lack of) physical exertion, it's probably the most succinct term to describe what's going on. "Competitive gaming" could be the DDR tourneys I used to run in Lubbock. E-sports is something people watch as entertainment, pulling for players and teams they like. It's something advertisers sponsor, to sell to the audience. It's more than nerds playing for money... it's the crowd dynamic, the whole atmosphere, etc.

Also: I used to play Tekken and 3S sometimes with a guy named Ryan Abella (JRA64 was his tag iirc) in Lubbock. Apparently at the time his Law was one of, if not the, best in the US. I wonder if he still plays... probably!

[Duckzero]

I use Juri because I needed to take a break from Blanka.

Juri provides a varied style of gameplay that's not really the best in any area, but good enough where she can be super effective in most matchups when played right. I still play her a bit like Blanka where I'm either super, super aggressive or I'm waiting for a window. Her move set allows you to play in either style.

I use the fireballs as zoning tools, traps and now a lot of combos! I'm still working on those though.... Her dive kick is much improved, still risky, but very very effective against the right players. Pinwheel is still bad, but still so good. She just feels a lot better overall.

I've never made top 8 with her to be honest, but I expect to do better once I start going to more tournaments and training sessions.
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Keepin' it real like Oatmeal

[negativedge]

NASL finals weekend is about to start! Get ready for thread spamming LIVE BLOG ACTION

rooting for: Sheth, Boxer, White-Ra. one of each race, one player from each region. I'm so cosmopolitan!

[Talbain]

It's kind of surprising how worldwide Starcraft 2 is compared to its predecessor. I'm not really sure what the facilitator was for so much renewed enthusiasm for videogames as a competitive enterprise, but I'm sure happy to see it.
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[negativedge]

I guess this is where I complain that luck of the draw means Boxer's reward for finishing the season tied for the best record in the league is a first round match up with probably the best protoss in the world :(

[Talbain]

Always pulling for Toss players. They were so janky in the first game that it's good to see them being extremely competitive.
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[negativedge]

stream music is getting annoying! serenade me, Day[9]

[CubaLibre]

[negativedge]

[CubaLibre]

It's also much, much prettier.
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Let's Play, starring me.

[negativedge]

matches delayed because it wouldn't be a tournament without failure

all the koreans huddling in a corner planning our demise

[negativedge]

really though this boxer/mc, select/white-ra bracket bloooooooowwwwwsssss

[negativedge]

prediction: July over MC in the grand finals

[negativedge]

30k viewers enraptured by the riveting backstage voyeur cam for the last hour. who needs games?

[negativedge]

35k stream watchers and they have no idea what the fuck they're doing

this stage looks like it cost them fifteen bucks at a garage sale, sound blows, two hour delay, awkward waiting around during the intro. professional all around

[Maztorre]

link to stream?

[negativedge]

http://www.justin.tv/naslseasonone#/w/1443308176/2