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Who is the real Santa Claus?
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This Machine Kills Fascis
Unfinite Indiscovery


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:20 am        Reply with quote

Tulpa wrote:
It's just when you're 8 and don't know what to read it's pretty easy to pick up total garbage and be turned off of books. I read the Hobbit and Odd John and the Wizard of Oz and fell in love with reading.

Everyone agrees that the Hobbit is good, right?

I mean, like, fuck Lord of the Rings, but nobody tries to tear down the Hobbit, do they?

I like thinking that it was genuinely a pretty good book, even though I haven't reread it in, like, ten years.
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This Machine Kills Fascis
Unfinite Indiscovery


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:28 am        Reply with quote

Man, in my elementary school library there was a book about teens on a cross-country bike trip that was weirdly patterned after The Hobbit. The idea was that the protagonist was a big fan of the Hobbit, so he framed the story of their bike trip as if it were The Hobbit.

As a kid I thought it was really strange to reference another book so often in your own book, and thinking back on it now it still seems a little "off" somehow. Like, I don't know if I'd want to make my novel about referencing someone else's novel.

Man, you guys are reminding me of how magical my elementary school library was. I used to really love going there to pick out books. The public library in my neck of the woods was really terrible, so I never found that same thrill again. I think my high school library was pretty okay; not sure why I ignored it so much. You know, I think I just got to a point at which I wanted to be able to pick specific books, rather than arbitrarily picking a book off the shelf and checking it out. But thinking back, that was a really fun way to discover literature!

I still think that libraries in general are an absurdly fantastic public service, but actually using them always feels like a hassle to me, probably because my house was in the woods, so I never really got to just walk to the library.
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diplo



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:36 am        Reply with quote

Did anyone here ever go to a Montessori school? I did for a little while, and I have nothing but good memories of it
My teacher visited my house one time for dinner and told me stories about seeing gnomes
When my class had a visit from La Befana, we could not contain our excitement
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:38 am        Reply with quote

Tulpa wrote:
CubaLibre wrote:
Tulpa wrote:
sarsamis wrote:
I wasn't allowed to own any vidcons until I could read a novel of my choosing, which was The Lotus Caves, and adequately summarize it to them*. My friends have a lot of nieces and nephews who would have benefited from similar treatment.


This is actually a great idea. I'm glad I fell into reading out of some sense of obligation towards not being dumb.

i fell into it because books were fucking amazing

i mean get trained to read at an early age and then just sit down with any heinlein and it's like, yeah, okay, books are rad


Man, Heinlein is fine when you're like 12 but as soon as I started thinking about things he became a throw-the-book-at-a-wall kind of author to me.

It's just when you're 8 and don't know what to read it's pretty easy to pick up total garbage and be turned off of books. I read the Hobbit and Odd John and the Wizard of Oz and fell in love with reading.

yes heinlein is obviously a writer for your preadolescence. but that's my point. i devoured everything, good and bad. redwall, goosebumps, the doom novels, asimov, a whole ream of shitty fantasy, just whatever. the nes was sitting right there, i dunno, i never saw them as in competition or anything. books were and are just cool. i never stopped reading because tv and videogames were available. (i don't now either.) i'm not sure why. maybe my parents are geniuses and i don't know it.
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Adilegian
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:47 am        Reply with quote

This Machine Kills Fascis wrote:
Everyone agrees that the Hobbit is good, right?

Gollum says "Dieses"
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Iacus



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:32 am        Reply with quote

I'll have to defend inty a bit on this one. Sure, that post read like "crazy parent you should get away from as soon as possible", but the guy was just wondering aloud. Give him the benefit of the doubt.

I say this because I, too, have the habit of expressing extremist thoughts just to gauge reactions and get feedback, even when they don't really align with my real views and behavior.
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boojiboy7
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:35 pm        Reply with quote

Mr. Apol wrote:
that's hilarious given the church's previous positions on literacy that led to the reformation.


The idea of the church as any sort of monolithic culture is really funny to me. Catholicism has so many different subgroupings that people who regard Catholicism as all one thing have always struck me as people who regard Protestantism as all one thing, even though there are really clearly major differentiation between groups.

For example, the Church's previous position on literacy was silly and stupid, and that is why there were a lot of groups with in the Church even before the reformation that were saying "um, yeah, fuck that". And it certainly wasn't all that led to the Reformation. Hell, I would say the massive corruption within the Church's own administration was a MUCH bigger reason behind it all.

The problem of understanding Catholicism is that it is largely tied not only to religion but also to cultural identities in a way that very few other versions of Christianity are. So your Irish Catholic and your Italian Catholic both practice distinct versions of the faith, and if you bring in the Eastern European block, and Central/South America, you get even further differentiation. The easiest way to see this is just asking Catholics about how they think about Mary. Hell, a lot of them don't even understand the Immaculate Conception, unless you are in one of those groups that loves Mary second only to the big JC. Of course, complicating this even further is America, where all of these former groups that had been largely regionally divided get to meet up and form a cluster fuck of Catholicism, the likes of which nobody ever gets to the bottom of.

So basically, back to Adi's original post, it depends on the group of Catholics you are talking to, though I have found that (overgeneralizing here in the way I discuss being against above) Catholicism tends to appreciate people who have read more outside of the Bible than solely in the Bible, in a bit of an inversion to the Evangelicals I have met, for whom the Bible overrides everything.

sarsamis wrote:
yeah, I'd do it for fun, but tell the truth the moment they grow skeptical. finding out santa wasn't real was incredibly underwhelming for me. I think I literally said "ah" and went on with whatever I was doing.


Yeah, largely my reaction was mostly "oh so it was you and dad all along? awesome! thanks you guys!" and then on with the rest of my day.

Also, like the cookies mentioned above, it made so much more sense why the cookies we left out magically were always my dad's favorites (Archway Lemon) and nobody else seemed to think Santa was down with those.
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Jujyfruits



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:29 pm        Reply with quote

evnvnv wrote:
jack klugman wrote:
my parents told us nobody knew if santa was real, and if i wanted to do the research, that would be okay with them

but i didn't, because the loch ness monster was cooler

/edit: oh shit, i forgot that i did catch my dad up on christmas night thanks to my insomnia. when i asked him what he was doing, he said he was eating the milk and cookies that we left out to bait santa. when i asked him why he would eat food left out to see if santa was real, his response was 'i'm not waiting around for somebody else to eat a full plate of cookies.' then he gave me a high-five and we killed the rest of the plate.


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CubaLibre wrote:
i fell into it because books were fucking amazing

i mean get trained to read at an early age and then just sit down with any heinlein and it's like, yeah, okay, books are rad


yeah, this basically. i started reading books at a very early age and just never stopped. i had tv and videogames and i watched a lot of tv and i played a lot of videogames, but i never felt that was any kind of replacement for books.
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Jujyfruits



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:33 pm        Reply with quote

my parents confessed that santa wasn't real when i started being skeptical because it just made no sense to me. i was seriously angry that i was told such lies. i mean like actually really offended at them.
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sarsamis



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:01 pm        Reply with quote

diplo wrote:
Did anyone here ever go to a Montessori school? I did for a little while, and I have nothing but good memories of it
My teacher visited my house one time for dinner and told me stories about seeing gnomes
When my class had a visit from La Befana, we could not contain our excitement


My experience was somewhat negative, overall.

One of the teachers stuck her fingers in my ears when I was being loud. I felt violated and hit her.
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Mr. Mechanical
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:46 pm        Reply with quote

CubaLibre wrote:
Tulpa wrote:
CubaLibre wrote:
Tulpa wrote:
sarsamis wrote:
I wasn't allowed to own any vidcons until I could read a novel of my choosing, which was The Lotus Caves, and adequately summarize it to them*. My friends have a lot of nieces and nephews who would have benefited from similar treatment.


This is actually a great idea. I'm glad I fell into reading out of some sense of obligation towards not being dumb.

i fell into it because books were fucking amazing

i mean get trained to read at an early age and then just sit down with any heinlein and it's like, yeah, okay, books are rad


Man, Heinlein is fine when you're like 12 but as soon as I started thinking about things he became a throw-the-book-at-a-wall kind of author to me.

It's just when you're 8 and don't know what to read it's pretty easy to pick up total garbage and be turned off of books. I read the Hobbit and Odd John and the Wizard of Oz and fell in love with reading.

yes heinlein is obviously a writer for your preadolescence. but that's my point. i devoured everything, good and bad. redwall, goosebumps, the doom novels, asimov, a whole ream of shitty fantasy, just whatever. the nes was sitting right there, i dunno, i never saw them as in competition or anything. books were and are just cool. i never stopped reading because tv and videogames were available. (i don't now either.) i'm not sure why. maybe my parents are geniuses and i don't know it.


Yeah I was kind of the same way. I remember wanting to learn how to read really badly by first or second grade because I couldn't stand not knowing what all those letters and shit meant that were plastered all over everything. Discovering the joys of books was a nice side effect to all that and was never something that I saw as competing for my attention with anything else, either tv or video games or whatnot.

The best part about grade school was the yearly book fairs when I could get my hands on new scary story books. I remember one year getting a bunch of Strange Matter books (like Goosebumps but all the stories were located around this one town in the midwest somewhere). Sometimes I wish there were something like a book fair for my adult life but I guess I can always just go to a book store or browse amazon or something.
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Jam



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:55 pm        Reply with quote

The abundance of books makes it hard to find good ones, especially new good ones. I blame that for severely curtailing my reading habits as an adult. I certainly did read schlock as a kid, but at least I enjoyed it.
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Oh God Spiders No



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:12 pm        Reply with quote

Speaking of schlocky fantasy novels, is anyone else addicted to Game of Thrones?
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The King



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:27 pm        Reply with quote

boojiboy7 wrote:
Mr. Apol wrote:
that's hilarious given the church's previous positions on literacy that led to the reformation.


The idea of the church as any sort of monolithic culture is really funny to me. Catholicism has so many different subgroupings that people who regard Catholicism as all one thing have always struck me as people who regard Protestantism as all one thing, even though there are really clearly major differentiation between groups.


Kind of depends what you consider a major differentiation. Someone like yourself with an academic interest in theology is going to look at their how their interpretations differ, look at where emphasis shift around in interesting ways (Mary), someone less vested in looking at them in such detail is going to look at the basics and go "believes in God, check, believes in Jesus, check, follows the 'Bishop of Rome/Pope', check, yup, Catholic."
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The King



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:32 pm        Reply with quote

To me (As an an outsider to it, with very little interest in theology), there isn't much difference between Catholics, Protestants, Mormons or Muslims, it's all the same shit. Quakers and Jews seem a bit different I guess, but apart from those two I have nothing but contempt toward the Abrahamic faiths as a whole.

What you view as major I'm going to view as minor, and neither of us is more or less correct about our valuation then the other.
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CubaLibre
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:40 pm        Reply with quote

Jam wrote:
The abundance of books makes it hard to find good ones, especially new good ones. I blame that for severely curtailing my reading habits as an adult. I certainly did read schlock as a kid, but at least I enjoyed it.

is... is this a joke? there are 2000 years of literary history to mine. there is good stuff in there, i promise. (read books as fast as you possibly can and you'll never run out of great ones.)
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boojiboy7
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:41 pm        Reply with quote

The King wrote:
Kind of depends what you consider a major differentiation. Someone like yourself with an academic interest in theology is going to look at their how their interpretations differ, look at where emphasis shift around in interesting ways (Mary), someone less vested in looking at them in such detail is going to look at the basics and go "believes in God, check, believes in Jesus, check, follows the 'Bishop of Rome/Pope', check, yup, Catholic."


The thing that consistently amuses me with Catholics is how few I have met who always agree with the Pope. Hell, when the most recent one was elected, it actually made some of the Catholics I was working with at the time really mad, and they pretty much said they wouldn't listen to him at all.
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This Machine Kills Fascis
Unfinite Indiscovery


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:50 pm        Reply with quote

CubaLibre wrote:
Jam wrote:
The abundance of books makes it hard to find good ones, especially new good ones. I blame that for severely curtailing my reading habits as an adult. I certainly did read schlock as a kid, but at least I enjoyed it.

is... is this a joke? there are 2000 years of literary history to mine. there is good stuff in there, i promise. (read books as fast as you possibly can and you'll never run out of great ones.)

Think of a book you liked a lot, type it into Amazon, check out the recommendation lists that include that book, and pick one that seems neat.
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:52 pm        Reply with quote

This Machine Kills Fascis wrote:
CubaLibre wrote:
Jam wrote:
The abundance of books makes it hard to find good ones, especially new good ones. I blame that for severely curtailing my reading habits as an adult. I certainly did read schlock as a kid, but at least I enjoyed it.

is... is this a joke? there are 2000 years of literary history to mine. there is good stuff in there, i promise. (read books as fast as you possibly can and you'll never run out of great ones.)

Think of a book you liked a lot, type it into Amazon, check out the recommendation lists that include that book, and pick one that seems neat.

I think I get what he is saying, though, in that there are a TON of books out there, so knowing which one to go with when you want something is sometimes intimidating. I never let that stop me though, and I am not sure why one would.


Last edited by boojiboy7 on Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The King



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:52 pm        Reply with quote

BB7, I am not so much amused by that as thankful for it. The Pope says some pretty damaging things.
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boojiboy7
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:54 pm        Reply with quote

Oh I am amused and comforted by it, don't worry. Ratzinger is a nut job.
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evnvnv
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:04 pm        Reply with quote

The King wrote:
To me (As an an outsider to it, with very little interest in theology), perhaps the same can be said of all religions

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:11 pm        Reply with quote

Oh God Spiders No wrote:
Speaking of schlocky fantasy novels, is anyone else addicted to Game of Thrones?


yes. i've been reading them since midsummer. i'm up to the fourth one now.
it's the first schlocky fantasy novel series i've read since i was a kid and i fuckin' love it, mostly because it has some balls. i appreciate an author who isn't afraid to royally fuck over his characters and change the game on the reader in the course of a chapter.

could do without the awkward sex scenes though
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Shiren the Launderer



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:15 pm        Reply with quote

This Machine Kills Fascis wrote:
Think of a book you liked a lot, type it into Amazon, check out the recommendation lists that include that book, and pick one that seems neat.

No, don't.
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Shiren the Launderer



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:20 pm        Reply with quote

This Machine Kills Fascis wrote:
Tulpa wrote:
It's just when you're 8 and don't know what to read it's pretty easy to pick up total garbage and be turned off of books. I read the Hobbit and Odd John and the Wizard of Oz and fell in love with reading.

Everyone agrees that the Hobbit is good, right?

I mean, like, fuck Lord of the Rings, but nobody tries to tear down the Hobbit, do they?

I like thinking that it was genuinely a pretty good book, even though I haven't reread it in, like, ten years.

tolkien fanboys bitch about how it doesn't fit into the canon. Stuff like how there are elves in the form we'd expect, y'know, like really graceful half-asian yoga instructors, and fairy-type things also called elves. The madness!
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LandRoverAttack



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:04 pm        Reply with quote

When I was a kid I read The Hobbit without knowing about the trilogy and loved it. Then I tried reading The Fellowship and was bored to tears, I didn't get far in it at all. And I had been reading (and playing video games) since I was like 4.

As far as Santa goes, I think TMKF's thoughts are close to my own. Christmas is plenty cool from a family perspective, I don't even remember having a bad one. But Santa wasn't so built up in our house, his name was just on a few of our presents and that's about it. I'd probably do as much for my kids, and maybe keep an agnostic mystery about him for them.
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Adilegian
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:26 pm        Reply with quote

I feel I should probably clarify that only part of my impetus to start reading recreationally was due to social pressures. It gained momentum when it turned out to be awesome.

Everyone read Dan Simmons' Hyperion.
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Shiren the Launderer



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:37 pm        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:
I feel I should probably clarify that only part of my impetus to start reading recreationally was due to social pressures.

Yer a wizard 'arry!
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Adilegian
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:38 pm        Reply with quote

Shiren the Launderer wrote:
Adilegian wrote:
I feel I should probably clarify that only part of my impetus to start reading recreationally was due to social pressures.

Yer a wizard 'arry!

M-my first book! How did you-!?

EDIT: I just didn't want to be left out of the booklove ITT. =(
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Jujyfruits



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:43 pm        Reply with quote

Shiren the Launderer wrote:
This Machine Kills Fascis wrote:
Tulpa wrote:
It's just when you're 8 and don't know what to read it's pretty easy to pick up total garbage and be turned off of books. I read the Hobbit and Odd John and the Wizard of Oz and fell in love with reading.

Everyone agrees that the Hobbit is good, right?

I mean, like, fuck Lord of the Rings, but nobody tries to tear down the Hobbit, do they?

I like thinking that it was genuinely a pretty good book, even though I haven't reread it in, like, ten years.

tolkien fanboys bitch about how it doesn't fit into the canon. Stuff like how there are elves in the form we'd expect, y'know, like really graceful half-asian yoga instructors, and fairy-type things also called elves. The madness!


there are few things worst than tolkien fanboys. i once knew a girl who had read LotR like 6 times already and spoke whatever stupid ass language tolkien created for the elves. she was one of the most terrible and disgusting human beings i ever knew.

me, personally, i can't take any of that fantasy shit. i hate it. i tried to read LotR and it lasted like 150 pages before i closed the book never to be opened again. i couldn't even watch the movies. god, i hate it.
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Shiren the Launderer



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:44 pm        Reply with quote

Remember when Harry Potter was just a book series and not some craven money machine? Merchandising should have began and ended with the wizardly flavored jelly beans.
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Adilegian
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:46 pm        Reply with quote

wrote:
me, personally, i can't take any of that fantasy shit. i hate it.

This would be too perfect coming from the mouths of a polycap dragon.
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protoblax
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:47 pm        Reply with quote

I went to Wizarding World of Harry Potter in Orlando and it was pretty rad. I liked that the staff refused to break character. I bought a replica of Neville's wand from the movie.
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LandRoverAttack



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:48 pm        Reply with quote

I read the up to the fourth Harry Potter book before I was done with it. It was the last book before the first movie released. Coincidence? Probably.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:50 pm        Reply with quote

I cried at the end of the fourth Harry Potter movie. That dad losing his kid shit always gets me.
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Flylighter



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:51 pm        Reply with quote

jack klugman wrote:
my parents told us nobody knew if santa was real, and if i wanted to do the research, that would be okay with them

but i didn't, because the loch ness monster was cooler

/edit: oh shit, i forgot that i did catch my dad up on christmas night thanks to my insomnia. when i asked him what he was doing, he said he was eating the milk and cookies that we left out to bait santa. when i asked him why he would eat food left out to see if santa was real, his response was 'i'm not waiting around for somebody else to eat a full plate of cookies.' then he gave me a high-five and we killed the rest of the plate.


That is a fucking rock & roll story.


We'd always leave the plate full of cookies out on Christmas Eve night, and we'd wake up in the morning and there would be a single bite out of a single cookie. The reasoning given was "Santa loves to share all his presents with all the little boys and girls! Why wouldn't he want to share the cookies too?" The reality was just that my parents were health food nuts.

Except one Christmas, the Christmas after we got a dog, the whole plate was demolished, milk all over the fireplace bricks, and a suspicious pile of vomit just behind the big-screen TV. My 6 or 7-year-old brother barrels down the stairs, sees the empty plate, sees the puke, and goes "FUCKING dog! I bet Santa took some presents back for that." Amazing.
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Predator Goose



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Location: Oversensitive Pedantic Ninny

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:52 pm        Reply with quote

boojiboy7 wrote:
This Machine Kills Fascis wrote:
CubaLibre wrote:
Jam wrote:
The abundance of books makes it hard to find good ones, especially new good ones. I blame that for severely curtailing my reading habits as an adult. I certainly did read schlock as a kid, but at least I enjoyed it.

is... is this a joke? there are 2000 years of literary history to mine. there is good stuff in there, i promise. (read books as fast as you possibly can and you'll never run out of great ones.)

Think of a book you liked a lot, type it into Amazon, check out the recommendation lists that include that book, and pick one that seems neat.

I think I get what he is saying, though, in that there are a TON of books out there, so knowing which one to go with when you want something is sometimes intimidating. I never let that stop me though, and I am not sure why one would.

I really like that idea tmkf I should try that. And to Cuba I was mostly pining for contemporary or new-to-me material. Mining history makes for some great reads (I'm currently chewing through Moby Dick and learning that Dostoevsky is surprisingly readable) but it's all stuff I'm at least moderately familiar with through pop culture. There was something about reading stories I'd never heard of before that had me voraciously rip through book after book (had an older brother who had a nice little library).

Nowadays when I go to a bookstore I either go there for a particular classic, or I mill about for 15 minutes looking at really crappy sci-fi books.
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Jujyfruits



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Location: b.a.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:52 pm        Reply with quote

i have no idea what my first book was. the transition between being read at by my parents and reading by myself was so smooth that it's like one continuum. i can say though that i probably started reading adult books and being really aware of literature as a thing when i took on edgar allan poe and arthur conan doyle and then rimbaud and nietzsche later on (yeah, i spent a lot of my time as a teenager plodding through nietzche and rimbaud, speak of cliches).
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to be perfectly honest, most gamers don't deserve to skip cutscenes
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Jujyfruits



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Location: b.a.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:53 pm        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:
wrote:
me, personally, i can't take any of that fantasy shit. i hate it.

This would be too perfect coming from the mouths of a polycap dragon.


hahahaha, perfect
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Dark Age Iron Savior wrote:
to be perfectly honest, most gamers don't deserve to skip cutscenes
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allensmithee
polyglamorous


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Location: wherever it is, im dying to get out

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:54 pm        Reply with quote

I'm with Jujy. The only fantasy stuff I can really ever get into is comics based on Robert E Howards and Edgar Rice Burroughs and such.

The Frazetta shit, I love that.

I tried reading LoTR and I tried reading The Hobbit, and I liked the latter a bit more, but that isn't saying too much! In terms of movie, I really like the Rankin/Bass animations and the Bakshi one or whatever, but I dislike Jackson's films.
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Shiren the Launderer



Joined: 25 Sep 2008

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:57 pm        Reply with quote

Goose, read Mason & Dixon. If not for its Bromantic Qualities, its Syntax and Diction will bring a Smile to Your Phiz.
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