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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: Sky's the Limit: Skyrim Froth |
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I pre-purchased Skyrim yesterday.
I feel $60 is really overpriced for most games.
For most games. I'd have paid $100 here, no questions asked, content in the knowledge that I'd be getting my money's worth.
I'm currently feverishly trying to clear my plate for when this game hits, because man, November is going to be a bitch.
I'm definitely in the pro-Bethesda camp. I'm aware their games aren't for everyone, and they certainly have enough errors and missteps to warrant disliking their game style, but for those of us who get off on exploration porn, there is simply no substitute for the kind of hit that a new Bethesda game will give you.
Can't fucking wait.
Post your future characters and plans here! _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:24 pm |
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I figure I'm gonna shell out the money eventually anyway. Might as well just let Steam charge me now and preload once I can, right?
S'what I did for Deus Ex too.
If I know, 100%, that I'm going to buy a game (this doesn't happen often), I'm pretty okay with just paying for it on the spot. Money's spent either way in my head, so let's just get it out of the way.
S'kinda weird. Games are one of the few things I will actively not pirate. I unabashedly download movies and TV shows and music albums freely, but I've got that itch to "support" games I enjoy, even though realistically one purchase is a tiny drop in a very large bucket and I really do have better shit to be spending my income on, and besides I'm well past the point of being able to claim any kind of moral high ground. My iPod's got 100GB of music on it. Come on. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:13 pm |
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Nice to see they're using the Fallout NV blood effect despite this not being the Gamebryo engine I guess. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:33 am |
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Yeah I'm really not sure where the Dark/Demon's Souls comparisons are coming from, outside of just generic "Game Design Done Got More Complicated" applications.
Things I've heard through the grapevine that have me excited:
-- No more Gamebryo engine. This is the fucking engine that would not die, probably because it's technically pretty powerful and you can get decent looks out of it, but it is so unbelievably twitchy and strung together with fishing twine that inevitably any game made in it releases as a glitched-out mess. It can be fixed, and once you trim all the errant code it works, but it is really just fundamentally broken. Now Bethesda's using their own in-house engine, which...Has me a teeny bit worried, but hell it can't be any worse. I hope.
-- More Morrowind weirdness. Bethesda took the complaints about Oblivion's relatively staid setting to heart and Skyrim's been promised to contain the kind of violently non-Tolkeinian shit that was so prevalent in Morrowind (and Daggerfall to a lesser extent). We probably won't have floating air jellyfish, but I'm betting there will be a good-sized run of unique flora and fauna to get attacked by.
-- Better level balancing. Oblivion was notorious for fucking this up pretty bad; Fallout 3 was much, much better and they've said they're going to be using the F3 version so I'm pretty cool with that. No more needing to mod away the bizarre level curve for NPCs, hopefully!
-- Game is motherfucking huge. Much bigger than Oblivion and bigger than Fallout 3. Yessssss.
-- Dual-wielding. 'Bout time!
-- Norse mythology. Morrowind had an aboriginal vibe to it, Oblivion had...Uh. Something terribly generic. Now we're going the viking route and I'm absolutely okay with this. Solsthiem in Morrowind was one of the cooler locations, lore-wise, and I'm pretty excited to see Skyrim proper. Ultimately I'd love it if they'd set one of these games in Elswyer or the Black Marsh, particularly after some of the fleshing out of Black Marsh lore you could root out in Oblivion, but Skyrim was like next on the list after those two. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:12 pm |
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| The Blueberry Hill wrote: |
| DJ wrote: |
| Morrowind had an Aboriginal vibe to it, |
Can you elaborate on that? |
That was actually the running theme of the game, if you followed the dark elf plot. Think about it: The Ashlanders lived in yurts, practiced ancestor worship, and had a long and colorful history and religious practice that was basically ground into dust when they got colonized by the Imperials. There are still a few Ashlanders alive and kicking, but most of the dark elves have accepted the new ways and are closer to imperial, "modern" ways of life than the Ashlanders, and the two groups have a fair amount of contempt for each other. The Ashlanders accuse the rest of the dark elves of essentially being willing slaves, while the dark elves accuse the Ashlanders of being a bunch of crazy desert people who eat their own dead and routinely try to kill rain because they think it's an evil spirit. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:12 pm |
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| The Blueberry Hill wrote: |
| I can't think about it; I've never played it. I guess I was hoping for an aesthetic with Aboriginal influences, but it seems your non capitalised 'aboriginal' was not an oversight. Ah well-- |
It isn't Australian Aboriginal influenced (least not overtly, as far as I can tell) but the devs have gone on record several times saying that "an" aboriginal vibe is what they were going for.
The Elder scrolls games actually play it pretty close to the vest as far as overt real-world influences go. Skyrim, kind-of amusingly, is easily the most overtly real-world influenced culture in the entire setting. The Imperials run a close second as pretty clear analogues to Romans, but after that it gets pretty obscure. I'm culling this from memory but I'm pretty sure the breakdown was:
Dark Elves -- Aborigines
High Elves -- French
Wood Elves -- Native American
Khajit -- Persian
Orc -- Mongolian
Cyrodillic -- Roman
Redguard -- Pacific Islander/Sea Nomad
Argonian -- Mishmash of jungle tribal cultures from South America
Breton -- Italian (think Renaissance-era Italy as opposed to Rome)
Nord -- Nordic (duh) _________________

Last edited by DJ on Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:17 pm |
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Actually now that I think about it the Nords in the Elder Scrolls games seem to have a lot more in common with Germanic tribes than they really do with vikings. You don't see a whole lot of Nordic shipbuilding (that would be the Redguards) or, really, much expansionism. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:45 am |
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So I am now one of those guys who bought a new PC (really, I just bought a new CPU/Mobo/RAM, my graphics card is a Radeon 6970 so plenty good enough) for Skyrim, specifically. Like Battlefield 3 but somehow I feel like I get to keep more of my dignity, maybe.
Actually probably not.
Anyway my roommate and I are going to be co-building our PCs next Saturday and will be taking pictures/video. I'm sure there's a nerd shame pile somewhere we can add those to.
PC gaming master race 4 lyfe. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:36 am |
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Bethesda claims they have a new QA tool to help eliminate (or at least vastly reduce) bugs this time around. We'll see; I'm not exactly holding my breath but it didn't stop me from pre-ordering the game months ago. I wish they'd test their games better but the end product is such where if this is what we have to put up with, so be it. It is going to annoy me but it won't prevent me from playing their shit. Plus, hey, patches. New Vegas is actually pretty fucking stable now! Somehow!
(For PC anyway; woe betide you if you got the PS3 version, which is not a mistake I will ever make again) _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:44 am |
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Do I play an Orc or an Argonian?
Currently leaning towards Orc. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:50 am |
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I...You guys.
I am gonna geek out on this motherfucker so hard.
SO HARD.
It's gonna be bad and I apologize in advance.
I'm almost 30 and I'm still doing this.
FUCK IT. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:56 am |
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| evnvnv wrote: |
| don't you work in video games? i figure that is all the rationalization you need to just keep going at it to your heart's content. it's professional development! |
It's become a work vs. play thing. Some people in my position give up on games entirely, I just have a strong segregation blocker so Things I Work on and Things I Play have very strong mental distinctions, even when they overlap (i.e. Dark Souls).
It works. At least for me. The things I wanna play aren't even on the same radar as the things I'm doing for my job, regardless of anything up to and including them being the same game.
Besides this: I've never worked on a Bethesda game. I never want to, really. I want to play them. I never, ever want to see a preliminary build even out of curiosity. I want to see the real shippable thing, and I am going to love the fuck out of it. I get to play this one. Bring it on.
It's pretty much this and Mass Effect 3 that I am fucking squirming to play. Expect another one of these threads when that ships. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:16 am |
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I'm leaning towards Orc because playing as a Nord seems way too obvious and I wanna subvert that at least a little, but I'm also very much along for the ride on this one and playing Big Aggressive Species seems apt in a way I'll find enjoyable. I'm sure playing Female Wood Elf who becomes Nordic Hero will be amusing in its own right but my first time through I'm willing to go according to script a bit.
Or maybe not. We'll see what fits once I have it in hand. I'm really just gonna roll with where it takes me. Male Orc is where I'm leaning but that's just based on conjecture so far, I'm totally open to changing it up based on what I see. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:52 am |
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We are torturing one of our CS guys at work by repeatedly announcing the time -- in minutes, then in seconds -- that he's going to have to wait before he can play Skyrim. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:36 am |
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Breaking the Holy Writs by linking to Kotaku but oh well: The Elder Scrolls games were really fucking ugly.
Don't be That Guy who says Daggerfall actually looked good for its time. It didn't. At all. >:(
Don't even get me started on the fist-eatingly horrible Staying At The Inn music that used to drive my dad so nuts that he'd demand I played the game with the sound off and I don't blame him.
Neither was Battlespire (although it had a pretty character creation screen) or Redguard.
Also apparently there was an nGage ES game -- I found it because I was sure Kotaku missed a few ES games in there -- and I haven't played that one fuck fuck fuck no I am not digging up an nGage emulator fuck you.
(oh god yes i am) _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:48 am |
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For the non-Jolly-Rogering set on the left coast, the game drops at 9PM Pacific Time. Confirmed! _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:19 am |
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I thought skooma was more of a Khajit thing.
Speaking of which, is anyone playing as a Khajit?
Also I am going to be a colossal fucking nerd and recreate my Warcraft Orc in Skyrim. Think of it as redemption for that character. I always had in my head what I wanted that character to be until it became clear that WoW is only an RPG in the loosest sense of the word. I wanna remake that guy the way he was when I thought him up: A crotchety, insane asshole with a crippling drug problem and a bad habit of lighting people on fire because he can. Also the idea of an Orc magic user still entertains me.
Also because I wanna see if I can actually make, in this game, what "Shaman" was in my head when I started WoW instead of "Chain Heal Bot". Someone who can speak to animals, control the elements, and routinely consumes herculean amounts of intoxicants resulting in fighting dragons while naked and tripping balls. _________________

Last edited by DJ on Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:22 am; edited 2 times in total |
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:00 am |
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IT'S UP.
GO.
(reboot steam if you're on steam) _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:09 am |
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PC Gaming master race checking in with auto-settings:
Yerp. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:55 am |
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The world opens!
| L wrote: |
| DJ I just want to say I appreciate how consistently excited you are in release threads for three-dimensional PC games. |
This has just been a good year for them is all. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:04 am |
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I immediately wandered off the given path, found 3 bandits who tried to kill me, killed them instead, took all their crap, wandered into town wearing the blood-soaked clothes of the bandits I just killed, picked a fight with a fellow orc at a bar, killed him, took his shit and put it on which necessitated dropping all the previous crap I owned on the floor, told the bar owner it was cool if she just collected all the armor I just dropped (words cannot express how cool this is), chatted up the very emo Redguard lady in the alchemy shop, left when she refused to sell me anything because it was 2AM, wandered around clutching bees out of the air for a while, eventually made it back to the actual starting town, and here I am.
It's raining.
SO FAR SO GOOD.
Morrowind taught me that at least doing a bit of the main quest right off the bat is a good idea until you have some solid footing, so I'll be doing that tomorrow. In the meantime, I may as well get to bed as I do have work in the morning. But the weekend?
Dear good the weekend. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:24 am |
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I like my new armor.
| Gideon Zhi wrote: |
| CubaLibre wrote: |
| Gideon Zhi wrote: |
| I'm not sure whether I want to support the Imperials or the Stormcloaks in the civil war. |
Always vote Septim. Always. |
Except the Empire isn't controlled by a Septim anymore, is it? I though that bloodline died off with Martin at the end of Oblivion. |
Correct. _________________

Last edited by DJ on Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DJ Shaman Analyst

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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:20 pm |
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Have not even begun to start the main quest.
I really should. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:32 pm |
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So, uh, looks like that Oblivion enemy-levelling scheme is either gone entirely or greatly reduced, because some of these missions I'm going on are clearly beyond the ken of my poor level 8 shaman. When some little goblin guy can chunk out 3/4ths of your health in a single hit and he swings twice a second, it puts the fear of The Nine in you pretty good. When you have to fight him and and giant dwemer mech simultaneously, that's the game telling you to Get The Fuck Out And Come Back Later.
I'm okay with this!
I still kinda cheesed them to death by getting my lightning bolt hits in and then running away until he leashed back to his starting point several times, but meh. _________________

Last edited by DJ on Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:39 pm |
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Yeah the removal of stats thing is odd, but I'm liking it so far. It helps that the perks are generally really powerful as opposed to the Fallout model, where they were useful but still mostly secondary to the stat core outside of a few must-haves. Even if you misplace a point in Skyrim, chances are you got something handy out of it. A 20% flat increase to damage with a particular weapon for a single point is the kind of design decision you don't see much in a post-WoW world, where a 1.7% damage increase is considered massive and potentially game-breaking. I've always hated that that bled into single player RPGs, where you're expected to spend five levels worth of stat increases for maybe a 5% higher crit chance or whatever. Skyrim is like "Hey here's some big dollops of whoop-ass all at once." Even the low level perks are monster increases to your skills. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:40 pm |
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I'm going to be terribly amused when people find out how much Dark Souls actually sold, realize it's now mainstream, and start calling it crap compared to whatever other desperately-underground thing Google told them exists.
Anyway: Climbed the Throat of the World today:
Fought a Frost Troll on my increasingly snowy way up:
Finally found the monastery at the top:
The seven thousand steps are completed. I feel like I'm playing Elder Scrolls Batman Begins. Figured this would be a good point to save it for the night as it is NOW ALMOST 6AM I HAVE BEEN PLAYING FOR NEARLY 24 HOURS STRAIGHT aaaaaaaagggggghhhh
Also just before this I went to go do what I thought would be a simple side quest and wound up following a talking dog (this guy:)
across half the damn continent (you know how in escort quests the escort-ee moves really slowly and will die if a snowflake hits them? This dog is the opposite -- it ran at mach speed through the fucking mountain-woods with no indicator on it at all and had usually chewed everything in half by the time I got there while still at full health), into a den full of vampires, and then shit only got weirder from there. For Elder Scrolls veterans, this should be a good clue:
I was beyond shocked that it actually wasn't Sheogorath this time. If you're really, really hardcore then you know what's missing from that statue.
Also the skies in this game are amazing.
This game has near-Morrowind levels of violently Non-Tolkeinian greebles all over it and I love it. It's what I wanted Oblivion to be. I can see why those who aren't Elder Scrolls lore dorks don't quite get it, but for the true believers this is pretty much the holy grail thus far. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:20 pm |
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| TXTSWORD wrote: |
| Talbain wrote: |
| DJ wrote: |
| I'm going to be terribly amused when people find out how much Dark Souls actually sold, realize it's now mainstream, and start calling it crap compared to whatever other desperately-underground thing Google told them exists. |
I doubt such a thing will happen. Even so, as far as "lore geeking" goes, I will admit that I don't really get it. Care to explain? |
I think he lost his mind a little bit in his 24 hour Skyrim binge. |
No no no. I was kind of just poking fun at the fact that Dark Souls is sort of the go-to game whenever people say "Popular Game X is shit, I'm playing Awesome Game You're Not Y". It's in threads all over the place on Kotaku, /v/, etc. and off the top of my head I've seen it crop up in threads for Skyrim (Dark Souls is a better RPG but of course nobody will play it), Uncharted 3 (Dark Souls is the PS3 game you should be buying but nobody is), MGS HD (Why would you pay for some old games that get redone in HD when Dark Souls is there and nobody's buying it everyone's taste but mine is shit forever), and even Battlefield 3 (No, the best multiplayer game ever is Dark Souls but you Broshoots Frat Gamers are never going to play it).
So it was kind of funny to round back to SB, go in the Skyrim thread, and sure enough hey there's a Dark Souls reference, though here it's thankfully free of the "Nobody ever buys good games except for me" bullshit because every here knows everyone here has Dark Souls already or plans to get it.
Anyway that's why I made that comment; admittedly I was really tired at that point so I probably should've clarified a wee bit what I was getting at but there you go. There's always that awkward tipping point with games like that when the folks playing it for indie cred realize that everyone else is also playing it for indie cred and they start to shuffle their feet and try to distance themselves from it. It's the "Any band you've heard of is way to mainstream for me" moment and I'm waiting for it to happen with Dark Souls, because Dark Souls sold really well, considering.
Deus Ex kind of went through this phase too. Actually come to think of it so did Cave Story way back when. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:58 pm |
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| Talbain wrote: |
| Even so, as far as "lore geeking" goes, I will admit that I don't really get it. Care to explain? |
To me, seeing people write Skyrim off because the combat mechanics aren't great (and I readily admit, they're not at all) is kind of like saying Silent Hill 2 was a shitty game because the gunplay sucks. It's completely missing the forest for the trees. You don't play Silent Hill 2 for the combat, you play it for the story, and this requires a fair amount of investment on the part of the player and, welp, some folks just aren't really into the whole suspension of disbelief thing. They find it silly to get emotionally invested in some video game character and usually find the concept of it embarrassing.
Ditto for Skyrim and the idea of world exploration. The whole point is that you're plopped down in an area of this now-very-well-developed fantasy setting that nobody's actually gotten to see yet, with the lion's share of the effort spent making the game gone into worldbuilding, and just turned loose. If that concept alone doesn't do anything for you and you find the idea of getting excited about it to be sort of dumb, or if the concept of exploring an area with only a vaguely set goal sounds really boring if there's no mechanically complex combat to engage you, then you're already at a negative with Skyrim. You have to want to explore the game for the sake of wanting to explore it, that's what these games have always been about.
It ain't for everybody. Nothing wrong with saying "Yeah this just isn't my thing", but calling it a piece of shit and wondering aloud why anyone would be dumb enough to play it isn't making a great point.
Personally, I'm enjoying the hell out of this game because I've been playing these games since 1994, and I continue to marvel at the level of consistency they've adhered to with the worldbuilding. A few people on this forum have seen me go Full Dork when it comes to Morrowind lore. I sank over a thousand hours into that game and explored absolutely everything about it that there was to see, and then some. I broke the game over my knee thoroughly and took it to places it was never supposed to, just to see if I could. What got me the most was seeing how much everything worked even when you looked in the corners. At no point did the game just go "Alright, fuck you, knock this shit off and do what you're supposed to." Not once.
That game had a ridiculously solid and deep internal consistency (something Oblivion faltered on, which is an unforgivable sin with Elder Scrolls games). Skyrim's got it in spades so far, though only time will tell if it stands up as well as Morrowind does.
Plus just trekking around, seeing something on the horizon, and setting off to go explore it is fun for me, and I'd gather for a lot of other people as well. My adventure with the talking dog last night came totally out of left field, but I just ran with it and had a blast. The game's narrative is entirely up to the player, the "story" is really just what you did in the game and you hew it out as you go. I really like that in my games. It defined my experience in Morrowind and it's doing it here as well, and that's exactly what I wanted out of this game. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:16 pm |
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Random question: Did they ever pronounce "Elsweyr" in Oblivion? I could've sworn they did, and it was pronounced ells-WHY-err. In Skyrim it's being pronounced like "Elsewhere". _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:35 pm |
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Welp. Had to finally use a console command to un-stick myself from a bug. Was lodged torso-deep in the side of a mountain and saving/reloading just stuck me right back in the same spot, so!
Looks like New Vegas rules are in effect, somewhat unfortunately: Use a command in the console and achievements are locked until you restart. Not a big deal if you're not using it to cheat; hack yourself out of whatever problem you're in, then QTD and reload. I do kind of wish they'd implement a cheat vs. DIY bug workaround system with the console but oh well, that's honestly a bit much to ask for considering the amount of time it'd take to implement and the relatively small percentage of players who would even know it's there, let alone use it.
Coincidentally, while researching if this was the case with the game alt-tabbed, I came across this. Note to people with criticism about a game: Even if you have a point, your tone alone is more than enough to make people automatically want to disagree with you on principle simply because you sound like a whiny self-entitled prick. Try to frame your criticism in such a way that you're stating a fact instead of throwing a well-articulated tantrum. _________________

Last edited by DJ on Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:38 pm |
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| thestage wrote: |
| TXTSWORD wrote: |
| Talbain wrote: |
| DJ wrote: |
| I'm going to be terribly amused when people find out how much Dark Souls actually sold, realize it's now mainstream, and start calling it crap compared to whatever other desperately-underground thing Google told them exists. |
I doubt such a thing will happen. Even so, as far as "lore geeking" goes, I will admit that I don't really get it. Care to explain? |
I think he lost his mind a little bit in his 24 hour Skyrim binge. |
no, DJ does this pretty much once a week |
Cute. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:19 am |
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| Gideon Zhi wrote: |
| Killing him got me a great little item that improves archery, alchemy, and lockpicking by 20% each when it's equipped, but holy hell the guy was a bastard to kill. |
I literally just did this and took that guy's face as a trophy. I am now officially out heath, magicka, and numerous resist potions. I'm level 18 and he was stupidly hard to kill. Had to resort to the kite n' shoot with archery, and it still took a very long time, almost all of my arrows (and I am was carrying a lot of arrows) and several retrys when he managed to land a particularly well-placed fireball long after I'd run out of health potions.
Also this game lets you quicksave during combat. Pretty cool, except when you quicksave a split-second before a life ending fireball is about to hit you and upon reload you're dead before the map geometry has even fallen into place and there's nothing you can do about it.
I like the new mask, though. According to a tooltip there's a bunch of these. Which means fighting more of those guys. Yay.
A lot of people seem to be telling their companions to go away because they like going it alone. Maybe Fallout ruined me but Lydia there's been with me since I had the option and she's proven pretty invaluable. Mostly as a Dragon Tank which probably isn't very fair, but hey.
ALSO: For PC players who've encountered the "arrow stuck in my body forever" bug: Save your game, press ~, type "sexchange" twice (or just once if you actually want a sex change), exit the game and reload. No more arrow! _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:33 am |
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| Gideon Zhi wrote: |
| I kind of wish I could bring up a command prompt in the 360 version. I want to change my character's name to Bergelmir. Though he's a Breton with black hair, so that might not be appropriate. |
Yeah the amount of crap you can mess around with is pretty nuts. Kind of blows my mind that every PC version of a Bethesda game is basically a functional debug build just tossed on a disc or up online.
I liked that they named a map "qasmoke" that itself has a showstopper bug in it. How is your QA team supposed to smoke test a game when the tools provided to do that cause the game to fail?
They didn't even bother locking the console command line this time, either. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:14 pm |
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Assuming you're talking about the same dog I experienced, you can get rid of him by actually completing his quest. The annoyance factor is sort of the entire point.
Also companions can only die if you kill them, which explains why Lydia died for you.
Admittedly, the way this game handles companions is a bit scene-breaking, i.e. how am I hidden if this barking dog is standing next to me? But it seems to be based around player choice, albeit with a pretty liberal range as to what will get you fucked over and what won't. NPCs can't initiate anything on their own, up to and including fucking up stealth. You can kill your companions, but it has to be you who does it; they will only drop to their knees if an enemy damages them too much. So, you do have the option of just offing your friends, a la most other Bethesda games and Fallout 1/2, but the odds of them dying "accidentally" are slim to none unless it was an errant attack on your part. No more "Hey my NPC buddy saw an enemy 3 miles away, ran to some random location trying to fight them all, and died." This was a pretty common occurrence, especially in Fallout 3; I liked it because a weirdly large amount of the time your companion would actually win. What's that, Dogmeat? You just killed an entire abandoned farm full of bandits by yourself and I didn't even notice? Good boy!
As far as how Skyrim does this: On the one hand, I like this approach because I'm definitely one of those people who reloaded Fallout 3 if Dogmeat got nailed by an errant rocket or whatever, especially if I didn't realize he'd gone off hunting without warning me. On the other hand, it removes a lot of significance as far as NPC death could potentially go outside of just allowing the player to be malevolent.
Still, looking back on how I've played games my entire life, I can completely understand why they did this. As much as I'd like to know the option for emergent gameplay re: NPC fuckups is there, the truth is that myself and 99% of players will simply reload rather than deal with the consequences of a character we're not controlling "doing something stupid" that's outside of our direct control. The ultimate solution to this is actually-intelligent AI that won't just fuck off to do its own thing without any input from you while still retaining an immersion-appropriate vulnerability, but we're not quite there yet; this is a suitable compromise in the meantime. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:44 pm |
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| rye wrote: |
| So companions only die if you kill them? Lydia has died a few times on me. I was well confused because I thought she was essential based on earlier behavior. So all I need to do is avoid fighting near her in a skirmish? I must be magicking/grazing her too much? |
At the very least this has been the case for me. I guess it's possible that what Txt said is true and they just don't die because enemies stop targeting them after they're down. I honestly don't know for sure and haven't tested this. However, I've seen Lydia take full-force dragon breath attacks to the face while kneeling in the injured position and she didn't die, but when I nicked her with my own flame breath she promptly crumpled and died without ever assuming the hurt position.
So, my assumption is based on conjecture and I could well be wrong, but it's been what I've experienced throughout the game so far. It's also keeping in line with Bethesda's previous approach to killing essential NPCs, in that they'll fall down hurt but not dead.
Again, I could well be wrong, but I've been working off the assumption that Lydia can't die unless I kill her; she's never wound up dead yet by anyone's hand but my own, despite getting beaten up way worse than my character ever has and/or dropping off of several cliffs and/or me accidentally dragon shouting her into a pit and/or me abandoning her in dangerous situations more time than I can count. Either way, she's tough enough (and by extension I assume the other companions are also tough enough) that you can basically ignore them and they're unlikely to die. No need to babysit. _________________

Last edited by DJ on Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:53 pm |
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| TXTSWORD wrote: |
| Yeah I mean, she'd not taken a blow after kneeling and then my dragon force yell thing grazed her from quite a distance and she was dead. Until that point I didn't even know she COULD die. |
The thing that leads me to believe this is how it works is that Lydia was standing up and seemed to be fighting fine when I hit her with flame breath once. This was in the middle of a dragon fight and she'd just gotten up after being slapped around by the dragon and kneeling for a while: I barked some fire at the dragon and she chose that instant to move in front of me, took it right in the back of the head, and instantly died. No kneeling, no yelling at me, just dropped dead.
I reloaded and she spent the better part of the next 5 minutes on fire, but none of it was my fire and she seemed none the worse for wear afterwards. So I dunno.
I'm actually gonna double check on this when I get home tonight, though. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:10 pm |
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I've gotta say I'm probably going to stick with Lydia until the end of the game because (and it feels really weird to say this) she can get beaten up better than any NPC companion I've had in any of these games. She's smart enough to pull out the bow when an enemy is unreachable, but if they're on the ground she's up front tanking that shit regardless of what it is, and as a result she's suffered more dragon bites/burns/scratches/tail swipes/wing buffets/etc. than my character is ever likely to, and still answers most interactions with "I'm still here!". I can't decide if that's creepy or awesome.
I need to get her some better armor (she flatly refuses to wear any of the stuff I've given her so far besides the sword and the helmet) but she can take a pretty remarkable amount of punishment just based on what she's wearing, so I guess it's not a big deal. She'll still kneel pretty fast vs. big targets but she distracts them long enough to burn all my magicka tossing lighting hadokens and then re-arranging my shit to finally get my mace and shield out, and that's become kind of invaluable. Plus if she recovers mid-fight she'll actually get back up and go smack them some more, which again is an excellent distraction and gives me enough time to prep some new attacks.
All Boone in New Vegas ever did is attack shit when I didn't want him to and bitch. _________________

Last edited by DJ on Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:05 am |
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| Tulpa wrote: |
DJ please don't talk about how you have to like certain things in order to like Skyrim and that criticizing the combat is off the table. The combat is one of the most prominent parts of the game and the one with most mechanical development. The world building is entirely invisible if you're not invested in the Tamriel setting after 10 years of all the interesting bits being surgically removed and thus don't care about minor aesthetic details with no mechanical effect. Characterization is nonexistent because role playing in a vacuum (around bethesda npcs is the same as roleplaying around no npcs.) means nothing.
This game makes a nice sandbox to manipulate into absurdity but it is not a well constructed setting. |
See I really don't find any of this true, at least not to the extent you're pointing out. There's plenty of "interesting bits" in Skyrim, a hell of a lot more than there was in Oblivion. If by "all the interesting bits" you mean the ability to immediately break the game, then sure. I guess you don't find climbing up the side of a mountain, watching the climate change, seeing an aurora borealis overhead, and finally finding a massive temple at the top entirely shrouded in a snowstorm interesting, but I thought it was quite a thing to see. I like finding new areas. I like finding a bandit's den where they've obviously been poaching mammoths, then seeing the spike trap they dug out where the mammoths fall in, and the blood trail leading to a butchery space inside, with a bunch of little bits of mammoth everywhere and a whole bunch of rendered fat on the ground that bursts into flame if you bark fire at it, which can be used as a tactical way to kill the bandits in the room. A lot of the smaller places you stumble across have small stories to tell if you soak in the details! If you're just kind of banging through them like "meh whatever another bandit hole" then you're missing out. If you simply don't care about that kind of thing -- and I know a lot of people don't, and that's fine -- then the game simply won't be as engaging because it's catering to people who do.
So, yeah, I still stand by my point. As far as having to like certain things to appreciate the game, sure, it's possible to like it for different reasons, but if you're in it explicitly for the exploration and don't really care about combat, you're definitely going to get more mileage out of the game than you would if you were in it just for the swordplay.
I don't think this is a particularly outlandish point to make? It's not like I'm saying "MAN YOU JUST DON'T GET IT OKAY", I'm saying "Well, this is really what the game's about." If you don't care about football you're probably not going to give a fuck about whatever Madden is doing, if you don't like racing then GT5 probably won't do it for you either. If the idea of just exploring a big fuck-all country just for the sake of exploring it isn't appealing to you, chances are you won't get as much out of Skyrim as someone who does. The combat is simply not good enough to carry the game on its own by a long shot, and while I think the NPC interaction has improved considerably from the previous games, it's still nowhere near something like Deus Ex or New Vegas. Nothing wrong with it either way, it's just how the thing was crafted. Time and energy was spent elsewhere during development and it shows.
I'll break my own Dark Souls comparison rule here. There's people who will swear up and down that Dark Souls is a total piece of shit because of the difficulty. They're not into games for the challenge, they're into games because they want to be told a story, or want to feel powerful, and the approach Dark Souls takes to get there has a lot of roadblocks in it specifically because some people find that by overcoming those, the overall experience is more rewarding. Other people are just completely turned off by and will walk away because they see it as work, not fun. My roommate's one of those people. He played my copy of Dark Souls for about 6 hours, rang the first bell, and decided this just wasn't for him, so he gave it back to me and stopped playing. At no point was I like "Wow you've got shitty taste!" or "Man you just don't get it!", but by the same token he never said "Wow this game is complete garbage", which is kind of what's happening here with a few people.
Skyrim is very good at what it does, and it's less good at some other things. Which of these you weight more heavily is going to influence your enjoyment of it. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:09 am |
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Oh and as far as companion deaths, my roommate got the guide today and it is confirmed: They have to die by your hand, otherwise they cannot be killed. Unsurprising since this is how it worked in New Vegas.
Also yes, skills do matter. The perks are essentially a replacement for the stats, but your actual skill points in a given action still govern its effectiveness. You just don't get the added bonus on top of it. Picking a lock with 100 lockpicking is still going to be much easier than picking it with a skill of 20, even if you've never spent a single point in that tree. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:28 am |
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| Mr. Mechanical wrote: |
| I'm in general agreement with you here but the way you put it you kind of make it seem like only certain people can criticize a given game or like a game is only worthy of a certain kind of criticism. Which probably isn't what you're saying but it does kind of come off like you're shielding the game unnecessarily. |
Eh alright fair enough. I like the game a lot; I'll leave it at that. _________________
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DJ Shaman Analyst

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:17 am |
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In regards to the rest of Tamriel being in there:
What probably happened was when time came to draft up the overworld in the Creation Kit, the mandate was "built a really huge, really basic overworld and stick the other countries that border Skyrim in there roughly enough to scale so that we can make sure that Skyrim fits the continent properly". This big map was what was worked off of as the rough textures were replaced with the actual game ground you can run around on, etc. while the stuff outside the borders was left alone. It helps keep the spacing accurate -- you don't have random spurs going off into what should be where Morrowind is, etc.
Having rough, unfeatured LOD textures in there isn't terribly resource-hogging. Those things are all one repeating texture so really it's just a bunch of rendering points saying "Render this part higher to make a mountain" and so on, which isn't particularly resource intensive at all. The game never renders it unless you see it, and the footprint is negligible either way even if the scope seems huge if you actually get there. This is how Daggerfall managed to have such a gigantic landmass on 1993-1996 hardware. It just randomized those points within a particular range and actually let you go there with some 2D foliage slapped on.
You see this in a LOT of games like this, such as Shadow of the Colossus (where you could find unused areas and the cinematic filming areas stuck outside the map), all the 3D GTA games (III had the cinematic "island" you could reach by Dodo plane, San Andreas had all kinds of shit stuck up in the sky), and World of Warcraft (where you had entire unused instances/zones/developer-only areas loading along with the live overworld map, and even chunks of currently-released and still-unused expansion packs, including a gateway to the Burning Crusade Blood Elf area guarded by an elf named "Adon").
Still cool, though. _________________
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